Author Topic: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?  (Read 2934 times)

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Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2017, 01:07:18 PM »

Offline Chris22

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James Harden walks every single time he makes a move.
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Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2017, 01:19:53 PM »

Online tarheelsxxiii

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Rockets have undoubtedly played well, but should not be ahead of Boston.  We have a longer winning streak, a better overall record, had better competition this week, better point differential, etc.

I’m fine with the Warriors at #1, but Houston should not be #2.

Agreed.  Houston (i.e., Harden) have notoriously choked in the playoffs, too.  It seems very early to have high expectations for them, though I admittedly having watched a game yet.
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Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2017, 01:21:21 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense.  15th in offense.

I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.

The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential.  I think it's fair to rank them first.

Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??

Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense. 
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2017, 01:29:43 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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LOL, 2nd or 3rd who cares?  To me this thing is just for fun and is an estimate.  What really matters is at the end of the season, do we hang up banner 18?

For the Celtics to be ranked as high as 3rd after the Hayward injury at this point in the season.  Wow i'm just so proud of how our guys have stepped up in his absence.  It's really a great thing to see.  Some people are even starting to complain that the Celtics are winning too much!  That's a good thing!

A great time to be a C's fan, to watch this team grow and get better right before our eyes!  Gotta tip my hat to Danny Ainge as well, he took some risks this year but they look to have paid off!!

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2017, 01:41:25 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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James Harden walks every single time he makes a move.
The NBA is a joke.

It's only a walk now if you pump fake and then dribble.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2017, 02:06:05 PM »

Offline footey

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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense.  15th in offense.

I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.

The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential.  I think it's fair to rank them first.

Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??

Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.

That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.

Kind of a joke.

Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2017, 02:09:46 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense.  15th in offense.

I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.

The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential.  I think it's fair to rank them first.

Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??

Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.

That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.

Kind of a joke.

Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense.  If you can't score you won't win in the modern game.  And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships.  You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles.  Gone are the days of 89-88 games.  Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2017, 02:11:05 PM »

Offline footey

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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense.  15th in offense.

I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.

The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential.  I think it's fair to rank them first.

Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??

Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.

Also what you seem to overlook is that the Warriors’ dominance last year is because they play so well on both sides of the ball. To suggest that the team that averages the most points is the best is a bit absurd.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2017, 02:13:13 PM »

Offline footey

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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense.  15th in offense.

I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.

The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential.  I think it's fair to rank them first.

Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??

Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.

That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.

Kind of a joke.

Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense.  If you can't score you won't win in the modern game.  And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships.  You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles.  Gone are the days of 89-88 games.  Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.

Stop twisting my words. As a newly appointed moderator I expect better judgment from you Moranis. Did not say we won’t score, just that we are more focused on defense. Unreal.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2017, 02:15:01 PM »

Offline footey

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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense.  15th in offense.

I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.

The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential.  I think it's fair to rank them first.

Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??

Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.

That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.

Kind of a joke.

Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense.  If you can't score you won't win in the modern game.  And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships.  You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles.  Gone are the days of 89-88 games.  Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.

Red auerbach is rolling over in his grade reading that statement that defense doesn’t matter. Seriously.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2017, 02:22:07 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense.  15th in offense.

I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.

The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential.  I think it's fair to rank them first.

Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??

Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.

That’s what all the “experts” say. The same ones who said we would be regress defensively because we lost Crowder and Avery Bradley.

Kind of a joke.

Celtics are changing the template as we speak, making defense the template for excellence.
That is just nonsense.  If you can't score you won't win in the modern game.  And I'm not talking about winning some regular season games, I'm talking about winning championships.  You have to be able to score and score a lot and score quickly to win titles.  Gone are the days of 89-88 games.  Sure if you are a great offense and have a great defense it is obviously better, but if you could only pick one, you would pick offense every single time and without hesitation.

Red auerbach is rolling over in his grade reading that statement that defense doesn’t matter. Seriously.

No one is saying that defense doesn't matter.  He's just saying that offense matters more than defense

And he's right.  If you don't have a player that can score at will in the playoffs/at the end of a game, you will not win a Championship.  The same isn't true for having an elite defensive player
I'm bitter.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2017, 02:25:00 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense.  15th in offense.

I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.

The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential.  I think it's fair to rank them first.

Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??

Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.

Also what you seem to overlook is that the Warriors’ dominance last year is because they play so well on both sides of the ball. To suggest that the team that averages the most points is the best is a bit absurd.

No one is saying that!  You keep making up these random straw men and attributing them to Moranis. 

He's saying that elite offense is more important than elite defense, not that defense is irrelevant.  A team with a top 5 offense and middle-of-the-pack defense will do better than a team with a top 5 defense and middle-of-the pack offense.  Defense still matters, but offense matters more.
I'm bitter.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2017, 02:45:50 PM »

Online saltlover

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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense.  15th in offense.

I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.

The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential.  I think it's fair to rank them first.

Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??

Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.

The Warriors have the best point differential (don’t know why someone earlier said they were #2 in that stat) on top of their best offense, on top of being obviously the best team over the past three years.  First is perfectly reasonable for them.

But when it comes to Boston vs. Houston, the Celtics have the better record, the better point differential (by 4 per 100 possessions), the longer win streak (8 vs. a mere 3).  It’s power rankings, which are silly clickbait designed to get people debating on the internet (well done, ESPN), but at the same time, they theoretically take into account recent performance more heavily.  On top of being the better team over the course of the season (short tho it is), the Celtics are in a different class than the Rockets over the last two weeks. During that period, the Celtics are 7-0 with a +15.9 per 100 possessions.  The Rockets are 5-3 with a +6.4 per 100 — the Celtics have been 9.5 points better than the Rockets per 100 possessions over the last two weeks.  (Golden State is #1 at 16.7, then Boston, then OKC at 9.2, then Houston).  In fact, over that time, the Celtics actually have as good an offense as Houston — both at 108.4 per 100.

The debate should be between Warriors and Celtics, and the Rockets should be in their own debate with other teams over #3.  Because that’s the level the Celtics have been playing at the last two weeks — legitimately approaching Warriors-level dominance over other teams.  That ESPN has the Rockets higher is simply due to their preconceived notion that Houston is a better team.  They may very well ultimately wind up that way, but they have not demonstrated that to date.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2017, 02:52:10 PM »

Offline footey

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Celts are 1st in point differential, record, and defense.  15th in offense.

I think you've got to rank them at least 2nd based on what they've done through 10 games.

The Warriors are the best offense by a country mile, with the second best point differential.  I think it's fair to rank them first.

Yeah, because everyone knows offense is more important than defense, right??

Yes, I'm being sarcastic!!
In the modern NBA offense is far more important than defense.

Also what you seem to overlook is that the Warriors’ dominance last year is because they play so well on both sides of the ball. To suggest that the team that averages the most points is the best is a bit absurd.

No one is saying that!  You keep making up these random straw men and attributing them to Moranis. 

He's saying that elite offense is more important than elite defense, not that defense is irrelevant.  A team with a top 5 offense and middle-of-the-pack defense will do better than a team with a top 5 defense and middle-of-the pack offense.  Defense still matters, but offense matters more.

Moranis is more than capable of defending himself without you doing his bidding for him, BJ.

Obviously the team that scores the most points wins the games.  My point has been that defense is equally important, if not more important, to winning championships.  The vast majority of NBA Championship teams, excelled playing defense.  The Warrior teams manage to do both at a very high level.

But just scoring points doesn't get the job done. Ask Paul Westhead's teams. Ask Mike D'Antoni's teams.  Having a strong defensive personality is critical.

Having a player on offense who can score at any given moment is a luxury, but does not necessarily get the job done.  Lebron, perhaps the prototype for that kind of player, has been to 7 straight Finals, but has lost 4 of them.  It can get you to the dance, but does not guaranty championship success.

Re: ESPN Ranks Celtics 3rd in NBA--Fair?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2017, 02:55:29 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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If you look at the defensive and offensive ratings of every NBA champion over the last like 30 years their average rankings were virtually identical.  Just as often the eventual winner was ranked higher defensively than they were offensively.