Author Topic: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)  (Read 5578 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2017, 05:27:42 PM »

Offline blackbird

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 360
  • Tommy Points: 64
I know I should feel sorry for him, but he’s got enough resources to open and fully staff a treatment facility. Unlike most addicts, he’s got access to the best care, no waiting lists, stable housing, and money in the bank.

Didn't his son tragically die? Jeesh, I'd love to know the secret for just "getting over" that. I guess buying and staffing yourself a treatment facility does it, though? Good to know.

Yes, his son died from SIDS. Hard to believe how callous people are toward any suffering human, but especially in a situation like his.

People have tragedies every day. I can have empathy toward losing a child, while still condemning his decision not to seek help.  His son died 11 years ago. Is that loss a permanent excuse?


Literally tens of millions of people have it worse than Odom. If he chooses to kill himself, so be it.

I honestly feel sorry for you.

How his life compares to another person's is not relevant. He is suffering and deserves support. Why do you assume he hasn't sought help? By what authority do you determine what is an appropriate level or kind of help? How long should it take to get over the death of a child?

So you’re an enabler? Not a big fan of accountability?

Why excuse his conduct?  Why isn’t he in rehab? Where was his debilitating, only-can-be-treated-with-hookers-and-illegal-drugs suffering over his son when he was playing with the Lakers?
How did you just turn "he deserves support" to "enabling"?

Making excuses for bad behavior and lack of change is enabling.  It’s that concept of entitlement: no matter what somebody does and no matter who they hurt they’re owed something.

I prefer "Christian," but I understand that compassion and forgiveness are difficult spiritual practices and can get me labeled as an enabler. And yes, I do believe that all people are entitled to these things, and that i am obligated by the teachings of my faith to give them. I hope he finds peace. I hope we all do.

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2017, 05:58:49 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7489
  • Tommy Points: 741
I know I should feel sorry for him, but he’s got enough resources to open and fully staff a treatment facility. Unlike most addicts, he’s got access to the best care, no waiting lists, stable housing, and money in the bank.

Empathy doesn't require absolution, and addiction doesn't really work like that.

It does, though. Treatment works, so long as somebody is willing to make life changes.

Relapse is part of recovery if and only if somebody wants to recover. Otherwise it’s just relapse.
So you think the problem is that Odom just doesn't want to not be addicted to drugs?
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2017, 06:12:41 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15742
  • Tommy Points: 1386
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/16/entertainment/lamar-odom-profile-feat/index.html

interesting article on some of the things in Lamar Odom's life. I actually met him when i was about 15 or 16 and he was At URI.

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2017, 06:28:29 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58554
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
I know I should feel sorry for him, but he’s got enough resources to open and fully staff a treatment facility. Unlike most addicts, he’s got access to the best care, no waiting lists, stable housing, and money in the bank.

Empathy doesn't require absolution, and addiction doesn't really work like that.

It does, though. Treatment works, so long as somebody is willing to make life changes.

Relapse is part of recovery if and only if somebody wants to recover. Otherwise it’s just relapse.
So you think the problem is that Odom just doesn't want to not be addicted to drugs?

It’s not quite that simple, but essentially, yes. He’s not willing to make the necessary changes and do the necessary work.  Unlike many addicts, he’s got plenty of options.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2017, 07:05:16 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
I know I should feel sorry for him, but he’s got enough resources to open and fully staff a treatment facility. Unlike most addicts, he’s got access to the best care, no waiting lists, stable housing, and money in the bank.

Didn't his son tragically die? Jeesh, I'd love to know the secret for just "getting over" that. I guess buying and staffing yourself a treatment facility does it, though? Good to know.

Yes, his son died from SIDS. Hard to believe how callous people are toward any suffering human, but especially in a situation like his.

People have tragedies every day. I can have empathy toward losing a child, while still condemning his decision not to seek help.  His son died 11 years ago. Is that loss a permanent excuse?


Literally tens of millions of people have it worse than Odom. If he chooses to kill himself, so be it.

I honestly feel sorry for you.

How his life compares to another person's is not relevant. He is suffering and deserves support. Why do you assume he hasn't sought help? By what authority do you determine what is an appropriate level or kind of help? How long should it take to get over the death of a child?

So you’re an enabler? Not a big fan of accountability?

Why excuse his conduct?  Why isn’t he in rehab? Where was his debilitating, only-can-be-treated-with-hookers-and-illegal-drugs suffering over his son when he was playing with the Lakers?
How did you just turn "he deserves support" to "enabling"?

Making excuses for bad behavior and lack of change is enabling.  It’s that concept of entitlement: no matter what somebody does and no matter who they hurt they’re owed something.

I prefer "Christian," but I understand that compassion and forgiveness are difficult spiritual practices and can get me labeled as an enabler. And yes, I do believe that all people are entitled to these things, and that i am obligated by the teachings of my faith to give them. I hope he finds peace. I hope we all do.

So then you should know something about repentance....

Christians don't blindly hand out compassion and forgiveness to everybody. 

Not sure where you come off with the idea that Christianity teaches all people are entitled to these things, nor do I understand why you yourself believe that.

Do you have compassion and forgiveness for somebody who has stolen from you and plans to continue stealing from you? 

You can if you want.  Just know you're not "obligated as a Christian."

Or is the idea here that you would only have compassion and forgiveness for them if they had a dead child?  Exactly how much does having a dead child excuse you from?

There's no free pass for being dealt bad circumstances.  Do you have compassion and forgiveness for someone who was molested if that in turn caused them to molest others?

Shouldn't the bigger focus be on Lamar's remaining children and how he can influence their lives?  Why can't they be an excuse for him to get his life together, rather than the dead child being an excuse for a life in shambles?
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2017, 07:12:09 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
I know I should feel sorry for him, but he’s got enough resources to open and fully staff a treatment facility. Unlike most addicts, he’s got access to the best care, no waiting lists, stable housing, and money in the bank.

Empathy doesn't require absolution, and addiction doesn't really work like that.

It does, though. Treatment works, so long as somebody is willing to make life changes.

Relapse is part of recovery if and only if somebody wants to recover. Otherwise it’s just relapse.

I would argue that "willing" is a very tricky word to use in this context.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2017, 08:33:27 PM »

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
I know I should feel sorry for him, but he’s got enough resources to open and fully staff a treatment facility. Unlike most addicts, he’s got access to the best care, no waiting lists, stable housing, and money in the bank.

Didn't his son tragically die? Jeesh, I'd love to know the secret for just "getting over" that. I guess buying and staffing yourself a treatment facility does it, though? Good to know.

Yes, his son died from SIDS. Hard to believe how callous people are toward any suffering human, but especially in a situation like his.

People have tragedies every day. I can have empathy toward losing a child, while still condemning his decision not to seek help.  His son died 11 years ago. Is that loss a permanent excuse?


Literally tens of millions of people have it worse than Odom. If he chooses to kill himself, so be it.

I honestly feel sorry for you.

How his life compares to another person's is not relevant. He is suffering and deserves support. Why do you assume he hasn't sought help? By what authority do you determine what is an appropriate level or kind of help? How long should it take to get over the death of a child?
What kind of support are you referring to?

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2017, 08:35:08 PM »

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
I know I should feel sorry for him, but he’s got enough resources to open and fully staff a treatment facility. Unlike most addicts, he’s got access to the best care, no waiting lists, stable housing, and money in the bank.

Empathy doesn't require absolution, and addiction doesn't really work like that.

It does, though. Treatment works, so long as somebody is willing to make life changes.

Relapse is part of recovery if and only if somebody wants to recover. Otherwise it’s just relapse.
So you think the problem is that Odom just doesn't want to not be addicted to drugs?
I would say at this point he probably wants to use drugs more than not use them.

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2017, 08:36:39 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23322
  • Tommy Points: 2509
Meh hard to feel sorry for a grown man who has had the opportunities hes had in life.

Isn't how you understand the behavior a determining factor as to whether or not you can muster compassion?   If you see the behavior as self-indulgent, lazy, care-free, spoiled, immature, selfish, etc, it's hard to feel bad for him.  If you see the behavior as pathologically compulsive in the face of repetitive self-defeating results, it's possible to view it is a mental health issue -- which really doesn't discriminate based on opportunity, talent or wealth.   We know that the rich and famous can be as depressed and self-destructive as those with little or no means.  But whether to feel badly or have some compassion is up to each of us. 

Having witnessed good people close to me who had many opportunities in life  but nonetheless struggled/suffered with mental health issues, I typically respond with compassion (for whatever good it does).   BTW -- compassion doesn't mean you enable the behavior or rationalize it.  For me, it mostly makes me thankful that my mind is reasonably healthy.  I have no idea what would be helpful to Odom, but whatever it is I hope he finds it.     

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2017, 08:44:49 PM »

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
I'm not sure you can really say "addiction issues" are equivalent to "mental health issues."

There's definitely overlap (a lot of it) but I've been close enough to both populations to know the terms are not at all synonymous.

I don't know Lamar at all, but from very afar his issues strike me far more as "addiction issues."
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 09:24:11 PM by eja117 »

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2017, 09:15:14 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23322
  • Tommy Points: 2509
I'm not sure you can really say "addiction issues" and equivalent to "mental health issues."

There's definitely overlap (a lot of it) but I've been close enough to both populations to know the terms are not at all synonymous.

I don't know Lamar at all, but from very afar his issues strike me far more as "addiction issues."

Didn't do that.  Here's the quote: "If you see the behavior as pathologically compulsive in the face of repetitive self-defeating results, it's possible to view it as a mental health issue".   Nothing conclusive there, just a thought -- and no mention of addiction issues as equivalent to mental health issues.
 
Actually, I'm not sure what addiction specialists would say about that, but it's not what I said (I assume you were referring to my post - sorry if you weren't).

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2017, 09:20:51 PM »

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
I think there's a difference between empathy and excusing someone's behavior. Even someone who has the worst imaginable circumstances should still be held accountable for their actions (stealing bread to feed your family aside).

And I don't think there's anything wrong with compassion, even if the person has better circumstances than I do.
The stealing bread stereotype doesn't really apply in America. They've done analysis. When people steal during bad times they don't steal the cheap stuff and in many cases some of the most popular stuff to steal is pretty frivolous. For example Red Bull gets stolen a lot.

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2017, 09:24:55 PM »

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
I'm not sure you can really say "addiction issues" and equivalent to "mental health issues."

There's definitely overlap (a lot of it) but I've been close enough to both populations to know the terms are not at all synonymous.

I don't know Lamar at all, but from very afar his issues strike me far more as "addiction issues."

Didn't do that.  Here's the quote: "If you see the behavior as pathologically compulsive in the face of repetitive self-defeating results, it's possible to view it as a mental health issue".   Nothing conclusive there, just a thought -- and no mention of addiction issues as equivalent to mental health issues.
 
Actually, I'm not sure what addiction specialists would say about that, but it's not what I said (I assume you were referring to my post - sorry if you weren't).
I think, if anything, I'd be referring more to this part of the quote.."Isn't how you understand the behavior a determining factor as to whether or not you can muster compassion?"

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2017, 09:36:34 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8593
  • Tommy Points: 1389
I'm not sure you can really say "addiction issues" are equivalent to "mental health issues."

There's definitely overlap (a lot of it) but I've been close enough to both populations to know the terms are not at all synonymous.

I don't know Lamar at all, but from very afar his issues strike me far more as "addiction issues."

I think I understand your perspective, if you mean the two don't necessary need to coexist.  Technically though, substance abuse disorder is in the DSM 5. 
The Tarstradamus Group, LLC

Re: Lamar Odom collapses in L.A night club (Video)
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2017, 09:44:12 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23322
  • Tommy Points: 2509
I'm not sure you can really say "addiction issues" and equivalent to "mental health issues."

There's definitely overlap (a lot of it) but I've been close enough to both populations to know the terms are not at all synonymous.

I don't know Lamar at all, but from very afar his issues strike me far more as "addiction issues."

Didn't do that.  Here's the quote: "If you see the behavior as pathologically compulsive in the face of repetitive self-defeating results, it's possible to view it as a mental health issue".   Nothing conclusive there, just a thought -- and no mention of addiction issues as equivalent to mental health issues.
 
Actually, I'm not sure what addiction specialists would say about that, but it's not what I said (I assume you were referring to my post - sorry if you weren't).
I think, if anything, I'd be referring more to this part of the quote.."Isn't how you understand the behavior a determining factor as to whether or not you can muster compassion?"

Now I'm more confused.   I thought that was a pretty innocuous statement and about as true as an opinion could be.  How you understand any behavior is a determining factor in how you "feel" about it.   How do you construe it as equating addiction with mental illness?