Poll

Is Kyrie Irving A Legitimate, Bonafide Superstar In The NBA (In Your Books/Definition)?

Yes, Kyrie Irving Is A Legitimate (Bonafide) Superstar In This League
49 (64.5%)
No, I View Kyrie As A Legit All-Star, But A Fringe Superstar At Best Currently
27 (35.5%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Author Topic: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?  (Read 3532 times)

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Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2017, 12:26:02 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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I don't care about this Superstar label.  I want them to make it like the WWE where everyone is called a Superstar by default so we don't have to hear about it.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2017, 12:27:28 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Kyrie is a player. Not a owner, not a GM, not a coach, but a player.

I'm pretty sure of that anyway.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2017, 01:21:57 PM »

Offline Casperian

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Empty calories
"In Danny we trust" is so 2016.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2017, 01:29:56 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2017, 01:35:30 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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conspiracy theorist

But is he a superstar conspiracy theorist, or just an all-star level one?  ???

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2017, 02:16:40 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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The Jury is still out.

I don't see KI as a current superstar. ESPN just had him as the 25th best player in the league. BR had him as the 8th best PG in the league last year. Sporting News has him 7th. Most other publications has him as between 5th and 7th PG in the league and that's without Harden on the list (who still is a better PG than Irving). You'll have a very difficult time arguing that a guy who is averaging 22 points, fewer than 6 assists per game and plays questionable defense is somehow better than those rankings. If you can't even finish in the top 5 in your position, you are not a superstar in my book

But Irving is the only guy on that list who hasn't hit his prime yet. Wall, Walker and Lillard are 27. Harden is 28. Curry and Westbrook are 29. Conley is 30. Lowry is 31. Paul is 32. IT is hurt. So if Irving can continue to develop his game, he'll eventually pass most or all of those guys because no one beats Father Time.

From a media standpoint Irving is a superstar. He's been on winning teams, made big shots, they love to get his (uninformed) opinions about things, etc. But the media stuff doesn't mean anything to me. A superstar is what you do on the court. A superstar is a guy who can carry a team. Irving isn't there yet but that doesn't mean he won't ever be one.

Yep, TP. Very well said.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2017, 02:28:11 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I don't care about this Superstar label.  I want them to make it like the WWE where everyone is called a Superstar by default so we don't have to hear about it.
I prefer old school. 

<In this corner, 2 time world champion, 3 time intercontinental champion, ....> [Enter heal or face to a chorus of boos or cheers] 
<In this corner, ... Bob Jones> [Shows nondescript fellow (aka Redshirt, aka Lamb to the Slaughter) to a couple half hearted claps] 

 

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2017, 04:09:10 PM »

Online Androslav

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I find that the basic 3 basketball elements are: shooting, dribling and passing.

Kyrie is one of the best shooters ever of the dribble/in PNR. Maybe the single most valuable skill in the league. It changed the league. It made people guard Curry 30 feet from the basket like he is under the rim and a 2 time MVP. That is skill only a couple of guys along with Curry (the best ever/in the group), Kyrie, Lillard, Harden (see 3pt fouls too) and can repeat constantly. IT was in that group just once, last year - he ended up 5th in MVP voting. Kyrie can hit those above the break all day. It includes going 8/8 in a game and that G7 shot.
Shooting verdict: Historicaly great

Kyrie is IMO the best dribbler of all time. Too many moves for others to process, too fast, the handle is super tight. Some defenders are affraid and some just fold to the side after a couple of bounces.
Handle verdict: Historicaly great

The 3rd element is passing. He is not the very best here, not in the Rubio, LBJ, Rondo, Simmons, Teodosić tier (those guys can really invent passes as the play is unfolding), but still a very good passer, in the top 10%. He is a creative and willing passer, and as it is with all of his aspects at the offensive end, he gives a little extra flair on those.
Passing verdict: Excellent

Who can match Kyries level in these fundamental skills and was not/is not a Superstar?
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2017, 05:07:04 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Why does this matter?

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2017, 07:05:13 PM »

Offline Granath

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I find that the basic 3 basketball elements are: shooting, dribling and passing.

Kyrie is one of the best shooters ever of the dribble/in PNR. Maybe the single most valuable skill in the league. It changed the league. It made people guard Curry 30 feet from the basket like he is under the rim and a 2 time MVP. That is skill only a couple of guys along with Curry (the best ever/in the group), Kyrie, Lillard, Harden (see 3pt fouls too) and can repeat constantly. IT was in that group just once, last year - he ended up 5th in MVP voting. Kyrie can hit those above the break all day. It includes going 8/8 in a game and that G7 shot.
Shooting verdict: Historicaly great

Kyrie is IMO the best dribbler of all time. Too many moves for others to process, too fast, the handle is super tight. Some defenders are affraid and some just fold to the side after a couple of bounces.
Handle verdict: Historicaly great

The 3rd element is passing. He is not the very best here, not in the Rubio, LBJ, Rondo, Simmons, Teodosić tier (those guys can really invent passes as the play is unfolding), but still a very good passer, in the top 10%. He is a creative and willing passer, and as it is with all of his aspects at the offensive end, he gives a little extra flair on those.
Passing verdict: Excellent

Who can match Kyries level in these fundamental skills and was not/is not a Superstar?

There are a few problems with this post.

1. You know there's another side of the court, don't you?
2. Grayson Boucher is historically great at passing, dribbling and good at shooting shooting. He's not even in the NBA. Again, your criteria is a wee bit lacking.
3. Last year there were 17 point guards who averaged more assists. That's not top 10%.
4. Consistent production matters. No matter what someone shows in isolation or in limited moments, a true superstar brings it every period of every game. Kyrie hasn't done that yet.

Give him time before anointing him as the savior. He hasn't even made the journey to Cana yet, never mind turning the water into wine.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2017, 07:27:56 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I find that the basic 3 basketball elements are: shooting, dribling and passing.

Kyrie is one of the best shooters ever of the dribble/in PNR. Maybe the single most valuable skill in the league. It changed the league. It made people guard Curry 30 feet from the basket like he is under the rim and a 2 time MVP. That is skill only a couple of guys along with Curry (the best ever/in the group), Kyrie, Lillard, Harden (see 3pt fouls too) and can repeat constantly. IT was in that group just once, last year - he ended up 5th in MVP voting. Kyrie can hit those above the break all day. It includes going 8/8 in a game and that G7 shot.
Shooting verdict: Historicaly great

Kyrie is IMO the best dribbler of all time. Too many moves for others to process, too fast, the handle is super tight. Some defenders are affraid and some just fold to the side after a couple of bounces.
Handle verdict: Historicaly great

The 3rd element is passing. He is not the very best here, not in the Rubio, LBJ, Rondo, Simmons, Teodosić tier (those guys can really invent passes as the play is unfolding), but still a very good passer, in the top 10%. He is a creative and willing passer, and as it is with all of his aspects at the offensive end, he gives a little extra flair on those.
Passing verdict: Excellent

Who can match Kyries level in these fundamental skills and was not/is not a Superstar?

There are a few problems with this post.

1. You know there's another side of the court, don't you?
2. Grayson Boucher is historically great at passing, dribbling and good at shooting shooting. He's not even in the NBA. Again, your criteria is a wee bit lacking.
3. Last year there were 17 point guards who averaged more assists. That's not top 10%.
4. Consistent production matters. No matter what someone shows in isolation or in limited moments, a true superstar brings it every period of every game. Kyrie hasn't done that yet.

Give him time before anointing him as the savior. He hasn't even made the journey to Cana yet, never mind turning the water into wine.

Yeah, if a player needed only three skills, and his ranks were “best ever”, “one of the best ever” and “top 10%”, he’d be in Jordan territory.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2017, 08:16:58 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Irving is A- level player as is Hayward. That is probably a "superstar" but it is not a transcendent player. 
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Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2017, 08:20:23 PM »

Online tarheelsxxiii

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Irving is A- level player as is Hayward. That is probably a "superstar" but it is not a transcendent player.

Well said, big Mo.  Most objective stance on Kyrie that I've ever seen on this board.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
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Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #58 on: November 05, 2017, 08:22:57 PM »

Offline flybono

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Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2017, 08:34:31 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Irving is A- level player as is Hayward. That is probably a "superstar" but it is not a transcendent player.

Well said, big Mo.  Most objective stance on Kyrie that I've ever seen on this board.
awhile ago I made this thread so I'm consistent where Irving is concerned.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=89806.msg2264984#msg2264984
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