Poll

Is Kyrie Irving A Legitimate, Bonafide Superstar In The NBA (In Your Books/Definition)?

Yes, Kyrie Irving Is A Legitimate (Bonafide) Superstar In This League
79 (74.5%)
No, I View Kyrie As A Legit All-Star, But A Fringe Superstar At Best Currently
27 (25.5%)

Total Members Voted: 106

Author Topic: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?  (Read 9097 times)

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Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #195 on: December 06, 2017, 11:29:00 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Just a question, if Kyrie irving is not a top 15 player or a superstar....what do you guys view Isaiah Thomas as? He really only had one MVP type season...

because we all know what the rediculous takes are about. its fans who cant get over Isaiah Thomas.

Not many people, especially around here, think that Kyrie isn't a top 15 player. It's a subjective list, but I think most agree that he should land around 15-20. I think the rare Kyrie haters are vastly outweighed by grateful Celtics fans. This team is a lot of fun to watch and he's our best player.

Yep, that's where I have him.

Yea same. It also devolved into a weird discussion of resumes at age 25. Who are the 15 players better than him? Do people think he isn't starting in all star game or making an all NBA team this season? That would be surprising to me.
fwiw Bill Simmons had a podcast recently where he ranked the top 20 players in the league and he had Irving in his top ten and Joe House agreed, I think. No surprise there but it's worth noting that there are those willing to make the argument that Kyrie is top ten.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #196 on: December 06, 2017, 11:55:50 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Just a question, if Kyrie irving is not a top 15 player or a superstar....what do you guys view Isaiah Thomas as? He really only had one MVP type season...

because we all know what the rediculous takes are about. its fans who cant get over Isaiah Thomas.

Not many people, especially around here, think that Kyrie isn't a top 15 player. It's a subjective list, but I think most agree that he should land around 15-20. I think the rare Kyrie haters are vastly outweighed by grateful Celtics fans. This team is a lot of fun to watch and he's our best player.

Yep, that's where I have him.

Yea same. It also devolved into a weird discussion of resumes at age 25. Who are the 15 players better than him? Do people think he isn't starting in all star game or making an all NBA team this season? That would be surprising to me.
fwiw Bill Simmons had a podcast recently where he ranked the top 20 players in the league and he had Irving in his top ten and Joe House agreed, I think. No surprise there but it's worth noting that there are those willing to make the argument that Kyrie is top ten.

Bill Simmons. No surprise.  :P

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #197 on: December 06, 2017, 12:41:38 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Just a question, if Kyrie irving is not a top 15 player or a superstar....what do you guys view Isaiah Thomas as? He really only had one MVP type season...

because we all know what the rediculous takes are about. its fans who cant get over Isaiah Thomas.

Not many people, especially around here, think that Kyrie isn't a top 15 player. It's a subjective list, but I think most agree that he should land around 15-20. I think the rare Kyrie haters are vastly outweighed by grateful Celtics fans. This team is a lot of fun to watch and he's our best player.

Yep, that's where I have him.

Yea same. It also devolved into a weird discussion of resumes at age 25. Who are the 15 players better than him? Do people think he isn't starting in all star game or making an all NBA team this season? That would be surprising to me.
He will clearly start the all star game (especially with Wall being hurt), and while I think he will make an All NBA Team, I don't think it is a given.  Only 6 guards make it and I would be incredibly surprised if Westbrook, Curry, and Harden aren't all clearly ahead of him (unless Curry's injury keeps him out for more than a couple of weeks).  Lillard is having a better statistical season right now.  Then you have guys like Booker, Beal, DeRozan, Oladipo, and Walker who all are capable of ending up with better stats and that doesn't even account for Wall and Paul who have both missed time but should have enough games to get considered (unlike a guy like Thomas who will miss too much of the season).  I'd currently have him on the 2nd Team, but a lot can happen over the course of the season.

Walker is going to make it for a sub .500 Hornets team over Kyrie from a 60 win team with slightly worse stats? Booker has worse stats on a horrible team (and is no better than Kyrie on Defense. Obviously things could change in 55 more games, but at this times those two suggestions are quite comical. Booker may not even make the all-star game. This also just keeps getting stranger. You are saying he probably will start the all-star team and make an all-nba team, but still isn't a top 15? Then you list a bunch of players from significantly worse team, many of whom have similar or worse stats... 

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #198 on: December 06, 2017, 02:23:17 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Just a question, if Kyrie irving is not a top 15 player or a superstar....what do you guys view Isaiah Thomas as? He really only had one MVP type season...

because we all know what the rediculous takes are about. its fans who cant get over Isaiah Thomas.

Not many people, especially around here, think that Kyrie isn't a top 15 player. It's a subjective list, but I think most agree that he should land around 15-20. I think the rare Kyrie haters are vastly outweighed by grateful Celtics fans. This team is a lot of fun to watch and he's our best player.

Yep, that's where I have him.

Can we go through this list of 15-19 players again who are definitely more superstar worthy than Kyrie? Because I am just not seeing it. He's got stats, flashiness, and [most importantly] is a winner. He's the whole package and I am very happy he is a Celtic.

I originally had Kyrie between the 17-19 range, but now I have him in the 15-16 range.

In no particular order, I have Lebron, Embiid, Cousins, Davis, Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Porzingis, Greek Freak, Kawhi, Aldridge, Durant, Aldridge, and Lilliard.

Now you can make the case Kyrie belongs over some of these guys, or other guys (like healthy Isaiah, or Towns, or Jokic, etc.) belong above Kyrie and in the Top-15, but that's how I have it.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #199 on: December 06, 2017, 02:44:49 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Just a question, if Kyrie irving is not a top 15 player or a superstar....what do you guys view Isaiah Thomas as? He really only had one MVP type season...

because we all know what the rediculous takes are about. its fans who cant get over Isaiah Thomas.

Not many people, especially around here, think that Kyrie isn't a top 15 player. It's a subjective list, but I think most agree that he should land around 15-20. I think the rare Kyrie haters are vastly outweighed by grateful Celtics fans. This team is a lot of fun to watch and he's our best player.

Yep, that's where I have him.

Can we go through this list of 15-19 players again who are definitely more superstar worthy than Kyrie? Because I am just not seeing it. He's got stats, flashiness, and [most importantly] is a winner. He's the whole package and I am very happy he is a Celtic.

I originally had Kyrie between the 17-19 range, but now I have him in the 15-16 range.

In no particular order, I have Lebron, Embiid, Cousins, Davis, Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Porzingis, Greek Freak, Kawhi, Aldridge, Durant, Aldridge, and Lilliard.

Now you can make the case Kyrie belongs over some of these guys, or other guys (like healthy Isaiah, or Towns, or Jokic, etc.) belong above Kyrie and in the Top-15, but that's how I have it.
So you have Aldridge and his twin brother ahead of Kyrie.  Ok. 

From that list, Lebron, Harden, Westbrook, Curry, Giannis, Kawhi, Davis and Durant are ahead of Kyrie.  You could throw in Cousins but he's a nut job.  As for the others, right this very moment and this year, um, I'm not sure they are better.  I will say this much.  Give me Kyrie over those other guys in a seven game series. 

Come playoffs, Kyrie's going to be dominant in a few of these playoffs series.  Mark my word.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #200 on: December 06, 2017, 02:47:01 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Just a question, if Kyrie irving is not a top 15 player or a superstar....what do you guys view Isaiah Thomas as? He really only had one MVP type season...

because we all know what the rediculous takes are about. its fans who cant get over Isaiah Thomas.

Not many people, especially around here, think that Kyrie isn't a top 15 player. It's a subjective list, but I think most agree that he should land around 15-20. I think the rare Kyrie haters are vastly outweighed by grateful Celtics fans. This team is a lot of fun to watch and he's our best player.

Yep, that's where I have him.

Can we go through this list of 15-19 players again who are definitely more superstar worthy than Kyrie? Because I am just not seeing it. He's got stats, flashiness, and [most importantly] is a winner. He's the whole package and I am very happy he is a Celtic.

I originally had Kyrie between the 17-19 range, but now I have him in the 15-16 range.

In no particular order, I have Lebron, Embiid, Cousins, Davis, Harden, Curry, Westbrook, Porzingis, Greek Freak, Kawhi, Aldridge, Durant, Aldridge, and Lilliard.

Now you can make the case Kyrie belongs over some of these guys, or other guys (like healthy Isaiah, or Towns, or Jokic, etc.) belong above Kyrie and in the Top-15, but that's how I have it.
So you have Aldridge and his twin brother ahead of Kyrie.  Ok. 

From that list, Lebron, Harden, Westbrook, Curry, Giannis, Kawhi, Davis and Durant are ahead of Kyrie.  You could throw in Cousins but he's a nut job.  As for the others, right this very moment and this year, um, I'm not sure they are better.  I will say this much.  Give me Kyrie over those other guys in a seven game series. 

Come playoffs, Kyrie's going to be dominant in a few of these playoffs series.  Mark my word.

Wow I'm an idiot. Put Aldridge on there twice  :laugh: (Long day...)

I think the last part is true lol. Defenses have to be shuddering when there's 5 minutes left in a close game and Kyrie is out there  :laugh:

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #201 on: December 06, 2017, 02:50:27 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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He has been placed in the perfect situation to make 1st team all-NBA.  It should be considered a failure if he does not.  He's the most privileged player in the NBA, imo.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
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Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #202 on: December 06, 2017, 02:57:32 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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He has been placed in the perfect situation to make 1st team all-NBA.  It should be considered a failure if he does not.  He's the most privileged player in the NBA, imo.


Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #203 on: December 06, 2017, 03:00:49 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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He has been placed in the perfect situation to make 1st team all-NBA.  It should be considered a failure if he does not.  He's the most privileged player in the NBA, imo.

Lol wow.

SMH

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #204 on: December 06, 2017, 03:01:30 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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He has been placed in the perfect situation to make 1st team all-NBA.  It should be considered a failure if he does not.  He's the most privileged player in the NBA, imo.



Clearly. Very frustrating to not be able to respond appropriately to such posts.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #205 on: December 06, 2017, 03:06:35 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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He has been placed in the perfect situation to make 1st team all-NBA.  It should be considered a failure if he does not.  He's the most privileged player in the NBA, imo.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #206 on: December 06, 2017, 03:16:42 PM »

Offline Big333223

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He has been placed in the perfect situation to make 1st team all-NBA.  It should be considered a failure if he does not.  He's the most privileged player in the NBA, imo.


TP

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #207 on: December 06, 2017, 03:21:27 PM »

Online Moranis

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Just a question, if Kyrie irving is not a top 15 player or a superstar....what do you guys view Isaiah Thomas as? He really only had one MVP type season...

because we all know what the rediculous takes are about. its fans who cant get over Isaiah Thomas.

Not many people, especially around here, think that Kyrie isn't a top 15 player. It's a subjective list, but I think most agree that he should land around 15-20. I think the rare Kyrie haters are vastly outweighed by grateful Celtics fans. This team is a lot of fun to watch and he's our best player.

Yep, that's where I have him.

Yea same. It also devolved into a weird discussion of resumes at age 25. Who are the 15 players better than him? Do people think he isn't starting in all star game or making an all NBA team this season? That would be surprising to me.
He will clearly start the all star game (especially with Wall being hurt), and while I think he will make an All NBA Team, I don't think it is a given.  Only 6 guards make it and I would be incredibly surprised if Westbrook, Curry, and Harden aren't all clearly ahead of him (unless Curry's injury keeps him out for more than a couple of weeks).  Lillard is having a better statistical season right now.  Then you have guys like Booker, Beal, DeRozan, Oladipo, and Walker who all are capable of ending up with better stats and that doesn't even account for Wall and Paul who have both missed time but should have enough games to get considered (unlike a guy like Thomas who will miss too much of the season).  I'd currently have him on the 2nd Team, but a lot can happen over the course of the season.

Walker is going to make it for a sub .500 Hornets team over Kyrie from a 60 win team with slightly worse stats? Booker has worse stats on a horrible team (and is no better than Kyrie on Defense. Obviously things could change in 55 more games, but at this times those two suggestions are quite comical. Booker may not even make the all-star game. This also just keeps getting stranger. You are saying he probably will start the all-star team and make an all-nba team, but still isn't a top 15? Then you list a bunch of players from significantly worse team, many of whom have similar or worse stats...
I think Paul George is a better player than Kyrie Irving, but I would expect Irving to make an All NBA Team, while I don't think George will based on position, team, opportunity, etc.  I don't think Kawhi Leonard is going to make an All NBA Team this year because of all the games he has missed.  Leonard is pretty clearly better than Irving though. 

Making an All NBA Team is a reflection on your season (and sometimes position), not necessarily saying you are one of the 15 best players in the league.  That said, the 15 best players in the league have multiple such team appearances when they are in the league for a sufficient amount of time.  Irving is now in year 7 and will probably make just his 2nd All NBA Team (and the first time it was a 3rd Team).  Right now, Irving is not a top 15 player in the league.  A couple of seasons, that might very well be the case, but right now he isn't. 
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #208 on: December 06, 2017, 11:03:26 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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He has been placed in the perfect situation to make 1st team all-NBA.  It should be considered a failure if he does not.  He's the most privileged player in the NBA, imo.



Clearly. Very frustrating to not be able to respond appropriately to such posts.

I actually just find it funny to be honest. (Not annoyed by it too much)

Sort of like playing the "villain" role or opposing side on here  :laugh:

Like @tarheels, I hated the trade, but @tarheels definitely seems to either hate Kyrie with a passion or consider Isaiah Thomas his second son  :laugh:

Don't think he's alone on here though. I do miss Isaiah as well.

Re: Debating With Friend: What Do You View Kyrie Irving As In The NBA?
« Reply #209 on: December 07, 2017, 12:06:17 PM »

Offline CelticsQuestFor18

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He has been placed in the perfect situation to make 1st team all-NBA.  It should be considered a failure if he does not.  He's the most privileged player in the NBA, imo.


TP

TP x2