Poll

If you had to choose, who stays?

Terry Rozier
58 (42.6%)
Marcus Smart
78 (57.4%)

Total Members Voted: 135

Author Topic: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll  (Read 12744 times)

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Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #240 on: May 17, 2018, 02:25:57 PM »

Offline action781

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Pay the tax, Wyc. Keep all of them.

Wyc isn't going to be paying the tax, the fans are.  And based upon the hike in prices for STH this postseason and next season, it seems that Wyc has already made the decision for us to pay the tax.  And I'm glad that he has.  I want both back.
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Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #241 on: May 24, 2018, 12:02:06 AM »

Offline triboy16f

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I don't know how many times I have flip flopped on this topic

But I choose Rozier after tonights game

Smart after making a nice unexpected 3, just kept chucking it (2 or 3 misses in a row)  ....I wanted to throw something at my tv. He did the same crap in game 4

why does he keep playing roulette like that?

Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #242 on: May 24, 2018, 08:36:32 AM »

Online Big333223

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I don't know how many times I have flip flopped on this topic

But I choose Rozier after tonights game

Smart after making a nice unexpected 3, just kept chucking it (2 or 3 misses in a row)  ....I wanted to throw something at my tv. He did the same crap in game 4

why does he keep playing roulette like that?

Wanting to keep Rozier is fine but I don't know how you could come to that conclusion after watching last night's game. Rozier was useless for about 90% of the night and shot 3/15 (1/7 from 3). Smart hit some big threes (a rare good shooting night 3/6 from 3, 5/9 overall), made some nice passes and played tough defense all night.

Again, it was just one game and not necessarily representative of their games generally but Marcus had a much, much better night than Rozier.
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Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #243 on: May 24, 2018, 09:12:44 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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I don't know how many times I have flip flopped on this topic

But I choose Rozier after tonights game

Smart after making a nice unexpected 3, just kept chucking it (2 or 3 misses in a row)  ....I wanted to throw something at my tv. He did the same crap in game 4

why does he keep playing roulette like that?

Wanting to keep Rozier is fine but I don't know how you could come to that conclusion after watching last night's game. Rozier was useless for about 90% of the night and shot 3/15 (1/7 from 3). Smart hit some big threes (a rare good shooting night 3/6 from 3, 5/9 overall), made some nice passes and played tough defense all night.

Again, it was just one game and not necessarily representative of their games generally but Marcus had a much, much better night than Rozier.

Last night was a pretty off game for Rozier. Just not himself - like Brown, something was off.

One other thing. It seems like playoff basketball is more and more about finding the weak matchup on the other team and exploiting it. The Cs pick on Love when we can. LeBron tries to get switched onto Rozier. And so it goes in the other series as well. When Marcus was in the game, there was no weak link to go after. It's ridiculous what he can do on defense. If he can keep his intensity level right so that he doesn't do dumb things on offense, he's a special asset for playoff basketball. Baynes-Horford-Smart and two of Tatum, Brown, Morris was just a stone wall for Cleveland's bigs-heavy lineup.

Maybe we don't *need* Marcus Smart next year, but I think his skillset will be more needed. With Hayward and Irving back in the mix we should have enough scoring and shot creation. We will need another defender and ballhandler, and Smart is almost unique in his ability to be a defensive swiss army knife. Watching him stone Tristan Thompson in the paint last night was hilarious.

Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #244 on: May 24, 2018, 09:30:36 AM »

Offline triboy16f

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I don't know how many times I have flip flopped on this topic

But I choose Rozier after tonights game

Smart after making a nice unexpected 3, just kept chucking it (2 or 3 misses in a row)  ....I wanted to throw something at my tv. He did the same crap in game 4

why does he keep playing roulette like that?

Wanting to keep Rozier is fine but I don't know how you could come to that conclusion after watching last night's game. Rozier was useless for about 90% of the night and shot 3/15 (1/7 from 3). Smart hit some big threes (a rare good shooting night 3/6 from 3, 5/9 overall), made some nice passes and played tough defense all night.

Again, it was just one game and not necessarily representative of their games generally but Marcus had a much, much better night than Rozier.

Last night was a pretty off game for Rozier. Just not himself - like Brown, something was off.

One other thing. It seems like playoff basketball is more and more about finding the weak matchup on the other team and exploiting it. The Cs pick on Love when we can. LeBron tries to get switched onto Rozier. And so it goes in the other series as well. When Marcus was in the game, there was no weak link to go after. It's ridiculous what he can do on defense. If he can keep his intensity level right so that he doesn't do dumb things on offense, he's a special asset for playoff basketball. Baynes-Horford-Smart and two of Tatum, Brown, Morris was just a stone wall for Cleveland's bigs-heavy lineup.

Maybe we don't *need* Marcus Smart next year, but I think his skillset will be more needed. With Hayward and Irving back in the mix we should have enough scoring and shot creation. We will need another defender and ballhandler, and Smart is almost unique in his ability to be a defensive swiss army knife. Watching him stone Tristan Thompson in the paint last night was hilarious.

Rozier started off cold but he had zero turnovers in the 2nd half I believe.  2 huge steals. 2 nice assists. Terrific mid range bucket  to keep the momentum going

Vs Smart

Chucking 2 threes in a row at the worst moment of the game. Cavs could have turned it around quickly if buckets were made.

I mean he just chucked it without care

Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #245 on: May 24, 2018, 09:48:55 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I am amazed how people can watch the same game and come to such differing conclusions (I suspect that confirmation bias is at play).  What I saw was Smart clearly making a bigger impact on game 5 than Rozier.  On the offensive end, the offense ran better when Smart was in control.  The ball got to where it needed to go and when he took his shot opportunities, he converted at least as efficiently as anyone else on the court.

But his real impact came on the defensive end.  He was sagging, switching, manning up, doing it all.  He had an impact on every aspect of the team defense when he was on the court.  You have to watch to see how many times it was Smart that rotated to either double or get back to an open man.  He was the guy that was reading everyone else, identifying the soft spot, and closing down where it was most needed. 

Far bigger impact than Rozier in this game.

Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #246 on: May 24, 2018, 09:52:21 AM »

Online Big333223

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I don't know how many times I have flip flopped on this topic

But I choose Rozier after tonights game

Smart after making a nice unexpected 3, just kept chucking it (2 or 3 misses in a row)  ....I wanted to throw something at my tv. He did the same crap in game 4

why does he keep playing roulette like that?

Wanting to keep Rozier is fine but I don't know how you could come to that conclusion after watching last night's game. Rozier was useless for about 90% of the night and shot 3/15 (1/7 from 3). Smart hit some big threes (a rare good shooting night 3/6 from 3, 5/9 overall), made some nice passes and played tough defense all night.

Again, it was just one game and not necessarily representative of their games generally but Marcus had a much, much better night than Rozier.

Last night was a pretty off game for Rozier. Just not himself - like Brown, something was off.

One other thing. It seems like playoff basketball is more and more about finding the weak matchup on the other team and exploiting it. The Cs pick on Love when we can. LeBron tries to get switched onto Rozier. And so it goes in the other series as well. When Marcus was in the game, there was no weak link to go after. It's ridiculous what he can do on defense. If he can keep his intensity level right so that he doesn't do dumb things on offense, he's a special asset for playoff basketball. Baynes-Horford-Smart and two of Tatum, Brown, Morris was just a stone wall for Cleveland's bigs-heavy lineup.

Maybe we don't *need* Marcus Smart next year, but I think his skillset will be more needed. With Hayward and Irving back in the mix we should have enough scoring and shot creation. We will need another defender and ballhandler, and Smart is almost unique in his ability to be a defensive swiss army knife. Watching him stone Tristan Thompson in the paint last night was hilarious.

Rozier started off cold but he had zero turnovers in the 2nd half I believe.  2 huge steals. 2 nice assists. Terrific mid range bucket  to keep the momentum going

Vs Smart

Chucking 2 threes in a row at the worst moment of the game. Cavs could have turned it around quickly if buckets were made.

I mean he just chucked it without care

Smart had zero turnovers all game and was 3/6 from 3 while Rozier was 1/7.
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Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #247 on: May 24, 2018, 10:17:12 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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I don't know how many times I have flip flopped on this topic

But I choose Rozier after tonights game

Smart after making a nice unexpected 3, just kept chucking it (2 or 3 misses in a row)  ....I wanted to throw something at my tv. He did the same crap in game 4

why does he keep playing roulette like that?

Wanting to keep Rozier is fine but I don't know how you could come to that conclusion after watching last night's game. Rozier was useless for about 90% of the night and shot 3/15 (1/7 from 3). Smart hit some big threes (a rare good shooting night 3/6 from 3, 5/9 overall), made some nice passes and played tough defense all night.

Again, it was just one game and not necessarily representative of their games generally but Marcus had a much, much better night than Rozier.

Last night was a pretty off game for Rozier. Just not himself - like Brown, something was off.

One other thing. It seems like playoff basketball is more and more about finding the weak matchup on the other team and exploiting it. The Cs pick on Love when we can. LeBron tries to get switched onto Rozier. And so it goes in the other series as well. When Marcus was in the game, there was no weak link to go after. It's ridiculous what he can do on defense. If he can keep his intensity level right so that he doesn't do dumb things on offense, he's a special asset for playoff basketball. Baynes-Horford-Smart and two of Tatum, Brown, Morris was just a stone wall for Cleveland's bigs-heavy lineup.

Maybe we don't *need* Marcus Smart next year, but I think his skillset will be more needed. With Hayward and Irving back in the mix we should have enough scoring and shot creation. We will need another defender and ballhandler, and Smart is almost unique in his ability to be a defensive swiss army knife. Watching him stone Tristan Thompson in the paint last night was hilarious.

Rozier started off cold but he had zero turnovers in the 2nd half I believe.  2 huge steals. 2 nice assists. Terrific mid range bucket  to keep the momentum going

Vs Smart

Chucking 2 threes in a row at the worst moment of the game. Cavs could have turned it around quickly if buckets were made.

I mean he just chucked it without care

Smart taking 6 threes and shooting 50% on them is chucking, but Rozier taking 7 and hitting 14% on them isn't?

Rozier didn't start off cold, he started off frozen solid and never warmed up. He missed more shots in a row (12) than Smart took all game (9).

Smart chucks shots a lot, but I don't know how anyone could look at last night'night's game and come away thinking that Smart was chucking and Rozier wasn't (unless they went in to the game thinking Smart was gonna be a chucked and Rozier wasn't, and then won't change their mind even in the face of overwhelming evidence)
I'm bitter.

Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #248 on: May 24, 2018, 10:29:35 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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I don't know how many times I have flip flopped on this topic

But I choose Rozier after tonights game

Smart after making a nice unexpected 3, just kept chucking it (2 or 3 misses in a row)  ....I wanted to throw something at my tv. He did the same crap in game 4

why does he keep playing roulette like that?

Wanting to keep Rozier is fine but I don't know how you could come to that conclusion after watching last night's game. Rozier was useless for about 90% of the night and shot 3/15 (1/7 from 3). Smart hit some big threes (a rare good shooting night 3/6 from 3, 5/9 overall), made some nice passes and played tough defense all night.

Again, it was just one game and not necessarily representative of their games generally but Marcus had a much, much better night than Rozier.

Last night was a pretty off game for Rozier. Just not himself - like Brown, something was off.

One other thing. It seems like playoff basketball is more and more about finding the weak matchup on the other team and exploiting it. The Cs pick on Love when we can. LeBron tries to get switched onto Rozier. And so it goes in the other series as well. When Marcus was in the game, there was no weak link to go after. It's ridiculous what he can do on defense. If he can keep his intensity level right so that he doesn't do dumb things on offense, he's a special asset for playoff basketball. Baynes-Horford-Smart and two of Tatum, Brown, Morris was just a stone wall for Cleveland's bigs-heavy lineup.

Maybe we don't *need* Marcus Smart next year, but I think his skillset will be more needed. With Hayward and Irving back in the mix we should have enough scoring and shot creation. We will need another defender and ballhandler, and Smart is almost unique in his ability to be a defensive swiss army knife. Watching him stone Tristan Thompson in the paint last night was hilarious.

Rozier started off cold but he had zero turnovers in the 2nd half I believe.  2 huge steals. 2 nice assists. Terrific mid range bucket  to keep the momentum going

Vs Smart

Chucking 2 threes in a row at the worst moment of the game. Cavs could have turned it around quickly if buckets were made.

I mean he just chucked it without care

Smart taking 6 threes and shooting 50% on them is chucking, but Rozier taking 7 and hitting 14% on them isn't?

Rozier didn't start off cold, he started off frozen solid and never warmed up. He missed more shots in a row (12) than Smart took all game (9).

Smart chucks shots a lot, but I don't know how anyone could look at last night'night's game and come away thinking that Smart was chucking and Rozier wasn't (unless they went in to the game thinking Smart was gonna be a chucked and Rozier wasn't, and then won't change their mind even in the face of overwhelming evidence)

Agree with this. I'm a fan of both Rozier and Smart, but last night TR was just off - he's played much better and I think/hope that he will again.

I didn't like Smart's last couple of threes either - I was screaming at my TV - but overall his offense was good and his defense was exceptional. One of Smart's better games this playoff run, and he made a number of very important contributions. Even the biggest Rozier fan must be able to see how different it is when LeBron switches on to Terry vs switching onto Marcus. Night and day. And Marcus was a beast getting around picks and getting into shooters. Play after play he did great things. It's a joke he's not all-NBA defense. Just a joke.

Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #249 on: May 24, 2018, 10:36:11 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Most of Smart's 3 point shots last night(I believe 5) were about 4-5 feet beyond the 3 point line and 2-3 shots were not in the flow of the offense, so I can understand an argument that that is chucking. That he made 3 is just good fortune.

Glad he finally had a positive effect offensively. We needed it with Rozier's and Brown's poor shooting nights.

Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #250 on: May 24, 2018, 11:15:07 AM »

Offline feckless

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Most of Smart's 3 point shots last night(I believe 5) were about 4-5 feet beyond the 3 point line and 2-3 shots were not in the flow of the offense, so I can understand an argument that that is chucking. That he made 3 is just good fortune.

Glad he finally had a positive effect offensively. We needed it with Rozier's and Brown's poor shooting nights.

This is what I saw also.  Yes Marcus had a better game last night than Terry but some of that is because he made shots that were in truth poor choices not in the flow of the offense.  Terry took some bad shots also but many that he missed were in the flow of the offense.  On the game thread someone was complaining that Brad was playing Rozier with Marcus sitting -- in my mind that is because Rozier even when having a poor game follows the game plan.  Marcus pounds the ball let's the clock run down then is forced to take a bad shot. Think about the end of periods when Marcus is in there is he really the one who should be going one on one, but when he is in there he always takes it upon himself and?   Marcus for all his strengths just plays too much the hero on offense--for my taste.  Terry generally follows the game plan.
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Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #251 on: May 24, 2018, 01:45:51 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Most of Smart's 3 point shots last night(I believe 5) were about 4-5 feet beyond the 3 point line and 2-3 shots were not in the flow of the offense, so I can understand an argument that that is chucking. That he made 3 is just good fortune.

Glad he finally had a positive effect offensively. We needed it with Rozier's and Brown's poor shooting nights.

This is what I saw also.  Yes Marcus had a better game last night than Terry but some of that is because he made shots that were in truth poor choices not in the flow of the offense.  Terry took some bad shots also but many that he missed were in the flow of the offense.  On the game thread someone was complaining that Brad was playing Rozier with Marcus sitting -- in my mind that is because Rozier even when having a poor game follows the game plan.  Marcus pounds the ball let's the clock run down then is forced to take a bad shot. Think about the end of periods when Marcus is in there is he really the one who should be going one on one, but when he is in there he always takes it upon himself and?   Marcus for all his strengths just plays too much the hero on offense--for my taste.  Terry generally follows the game plan.

I agree with this.  Marcus Smart is Mr. Wildcard for better or for worse

For game 4 he really killed the momentum by chucking those 2 , 3s. Celtics could have cut the lead down to about 6-7 if more "care" was taken and simple plays were executed.

game 5, there was no need to take those 2 threes in the 2nd half and give the Cavs any kind of life.  CBS agreed and yanked him from the game

CBS may have an open system (for offense) but Smart needs to set a limit on how many 3s he can take.  3 or 4 max a game.  Take analytics into play

Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #252 on: May 25, 2018, 08:36:18 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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We all know Smart is up and down, but the eye test told me that he has been better for the Cs offense than Terry in this series. On the main site, Alex Kungu says the numbers tell the same story:

"On the offensive end, the team is averaging a 110.8 offensive rating when [Smart is] on the court versus a 100.2 offensive rating when Rozier is on the court. Smart is only behind James in this series in assist percentage (33.7) and leads the series in assist ratio which measures the percentage of a teamís possessions that have an assist when that player is on the court."

Terry isn't performing to the same level as in the past two series - maybe George Hill's height is bothering him? Hopefully he will turn it around. It's also true that even though Marcus seems to make a handful of bad passes and heat-check threes every game, and those really stand out in memory, he also makes a lot of good passes and most of the time works to get the team into its offense.

Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #253 on: May 25, 2018, 09:03:45 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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"On the offensive end, the team is averaging a 110.8 offensive rating when [Smart is] on the court versus a 100.2 offensive rating when Rozier is on the court. Smart is only behind James in this series in assist percentage (33.7) and leads the series in assist ratio which measures the percentage of a teamís possessions that have an assist when that player is on the court."

Great Stats.  I am more of an eye test guy than a stats guy but this is consistent with what I saw in Game 5.  To me, we got better shots overall when Smart was playing.  It is a tough playoff series so everyone ends up taking some bad looking shots at the end of the shot clock but I feel Smart has been good overall.

Be careful with assist stats though.  You can have the Rondo effect where one guy does rack up a lot of assists but it is at the detriment to the overall flow of the game.  The quoted stats address both these factors.  Smart's assist percentage (relates to Smart's individual stats) is high at 33.7% but the assist ratio stat which measures the number of team assists when the player is on the court is also high.

To me, that does not constitute "pounding the ball" but it is a fine line.  Marcus is a steady all around contributor, Rozier has become a streak shooter who is being exploited on defense.  Both have demonstrated the clutch factor.  There is not a huge difference but I like Smart.

Re: Keep Smart or Rozier (merged threads) Poll
« Reply #254 on: May 25, 2018, 09:53:46 AM »

Offline feckless

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Am I wrong or is Marcus, even after a strong game 5, still shooting 23% from three point range & 34% on field goals, for the playoffs?  Marcus for a change shot well in game 5, despite his too many "heat checks".  Someone needs to convince Marcus that he can be the hero on defense and play team ball on offense, meaning that contrary to what he thinks, Marcus is seldom our best option at the offensive end.  It also means he needs to push the ball ( instead of walking it up) and make quicker passes instead of pounding it and looking for a home run pass every time.

Did you guys forget game 3?  Marcus was 2-9 fg and 0-4 3pt>
Or Game 4 when he was 2-8 and 1-5 with 5 turnovers?

Game 4 Rozier shot 40% and 33% with 11 assists and 0 turnovers?
?Who is it that is playing better on the road?



Hopefully Smart makes his poor choice shots again and hopefully Rozier finds his stroke- we need both to play well, to win on the road.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 10:29:28 AM by feckless »
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