Ben Simmons vs Jaylen Brown

[Erik]

Two completely different players. One is a point guard one is a small forward. Simmons is a good PG and Brown is a good SF. One has a ceiling of Magic the other has a ceiling of LeBron. Who is better between magic and LeBron? Who the hell knows. I'd rate them equal at this point: future all star.

[keevsnick]

Yeah, as much as I love Brown, it's definitely Simmons. But Brown is certainly number 2 in that draft, and he's closed the gap considerably on Simmons.

The more interesting question is Simmons versus Tatum. I think you have to take Tatum due to his much better shooting and two-way potential.

Then what you are saying is Tatum > Brown

Dont think every here agrees

Right now? Brown is probably better, but he's also older with more experience.

Long-term? That's easily going to be Tatum. His much more refined skill set and better size/length will serve him better in the long run.

I think both will be multiple-time All-Stars. But where I think Brown ends up on the level of someone like Lowry or Derozan, I think Tatum will reach perennial All-Star status and hit a level around Pierce.

I'm probably the biggest Brown fan there is an even I have to admit that Simmons is bettter than him. The rest of your comment i find interesting however. I think Brown probably is better than Tatum right now, but I disagree that its "easily" going to be Tatum long term. The reason I say this is two fold, firstly I think he is a far superior althlete to Tatum which gives him a somewhat higher ceiling to work with. Secondly, he's already shown he is capable of making a pretty significnt leap from year 1 to year 2. The difference between good NBA players and stars is the ability to build on their game and improve from year to year, yet not every player does that or not to a large enough degree to get them to stardom. Brown has already shown he can make changes and improvements. Hes shooting like 39% from 3 since the all star break last year, his turnovers in the paint have gone way down, hes switching capably 1-5, he doesn't get lost on defense, ect. If he makes a similar leap again year 2-3 he will be an all star. This isn't to knock Tatum, he's still a rookie, but there's n guarantee hes gonna make the same leap as Brown as his second year, or Aaron Gordon his 4th year. He may be more like Smart who's improved apsects of his game incrementallly, but not enough to be a star. We don't yet. Long story short I wouldn't say its definetly gonna be Tatum, the fact is Brown has such a high ceiling, works hard and has already improved alot so don't count him out.

[Androslav]

all i know is that RIGHT NOW Brown would be better on a contending team


he can play D hit the 3 and drive


simmons might be "better" especially in the long run, but who do you think the warriors or rockets or cavs would want for this season?

GSW - You really think that Simmons would have trouble distributing ball to Klay, KD and Steph? Showtime.
HOU - Morey says talent before fit. It is Simmons then.
CAVS - They have LeBron, so no.

It is much easier to perform within a diminished role. JBs role is lesser than BS.

[jambr380]

We'll have to see how Ben Simmons develops. He has incredible skills, but because of his need to have the ball in his hands at all times, he will need to become the unequivocal leader of his team...and his team will need to be good for him to be considered 'transcendent.'

Brown on the other hand has incredible athleticism, already defending at a high level, can drive to the basket at will, and is shooting the 3-ball with some consistency. He also has a top-tier motor and will to improve his game like the best of them.

I understand that Simmons is a more talented player than Brown, but how each of them develop and how much each of them want 'it' will eventually show who the better player is. No matter, I am happy to have Brown over anybody else in the 2016 draft class.

[GratefulCs]

all i know is that RIGHT NOW Brown would be better on a contending team


he can play D hit the 3 and drive


simmons might be "better" especially in the long run, but who do you think the warriors or rockets or cavs would want for this season?

GSW - You really think that Simmons would have trouble distributing ball to Klay, KD and Steph? Showtime.
HOU - Morey says talent before fit. It is Simmons then.
CAVS - They have LeBron, so no.

It is much easier to perform within a diminished role. JBs role is lesser than BS.

i'm not saying simmons is a slouch or anything

but JB fits better with the warriors and rockets RIGHT NOW

being able to shoot and play defense is what the warriors are all about. simmons wouldn't handle the ball there so he would be useless

rockets..kinda the same thing


JB definitely wouldn't be able to take over simmons's role in philly or anything

as of right now brown is more of a playoff type of baller


simmons needs to figure out how to play D. that's all

[johnnygreen]

Two completely different players. One is a point guard one is a small forward. Simmons is a good PG and Brown is a good SF. One has a ceiling of Magic the other has a ceiling of LeBron. Who is better between magic and LeBron? Who the hell knows. I'd rate them equal at this point: future all star.

I'm not singling you out, as many have made the comparison, but the whole Magic Johnson ceiling idea is ridiculous. There have been many tall players who could dribble, pass, rebound, and who also struggled to shoot. The thing that made Earvin Johnson "Magic", was his deep desire to win and being a team leader. Since seeing him playing for LSU, I have not seen any sign of either of those traits. The best comparison I have seen is Lamar Odom.

[celticsclay]

Two completely different players. One is a point guard one is a small forward. Simmons is a good PG and Brown is a good SF. One has a ceiling of Magic the other has a ceiling of LeBron. Who is better between magic and LeBron? Who the hell knows. I'd rate them equal at this point: future all star.

I'm not singling you out, as many have made the comparison, but the whole Magic Johnson ceiling idea is ridiculous. There have been many tall players who could dribble, pass, rebound, and who also struggled to shoot. The thing that made Earvin Johnson "Magic", was his deep desire to win and being a team leader. Since seeing him playing for LSU, I have not seen any sign of either of those traits. The best comparison I have seen is Lamar Odom.

I agree that Simmons has a lot more of a Lamar Odom personality than Magic. Didn't he pretty much not play any games last year so he could get a salary bonus for winning rookie of the year?

[johnnygreen]

Two completely different players. One is a point guard one is a small forward. Simmons is a good PG and Brown is a good SF. One has a ceiling of Magic the other has a ceiling of LeBron. Who is better between magic and LeBron? Who the hell knows. I'd rate them equal at this point: future all star.

I'm not singling you out, as many have made the comparison, but the whole Magic Johnson ceiling idea is ridiculous. There have been many tall players who could dribble, pass, rebound, and who also struggled to shoot. The thing that made Earvin Johnson "Magic", was his deep desire to win and being a team leader. Since seeing him playing for LSU, I have not seen any sign of either of those traits. The best comparison I have seen is Lamar Odom.

I agree that Simmons has a lot more of a Lamar Odom personality than Magic. Didn't he pretty much not play any games last year so he could get a salary bonus for winning rookie of the year?

That does sound familiar. That just reminded me of Ricky Davis. When he played for the Celtics, didn't he take a shot on his own team's rim to intentionally miss, just so he could record a rebound to get a triple double?

[Moranis]

Two completely different players. One is a point guard one is a small forward. Simmons is a good PG and Brown is a good SF. One has a ceiling of Magic the other has a ceiling of LeBron. Who is better between magic and LeBron? Who the hell knows. I'd rate them equal at this point: future all star.

I'm not singling you out, as many have made the comparison, but the whole Magic Johnson ceiling idea is ridiculous. There have been many tall players who could dribble, pass, rebound, and who also struggled to shoot. The thing that made Earvin Johnson "Magic", was his deep desire to win and being a team leader. Since seeing him playing for LSU, I have not seen any sign of either of those traits. The best comparison I have seen is Lamar Odom.

I agree that Simmons has a lot more of a Lamar Odom personality than Magic. Didn't he pretty much not play any games last year so he could get a salary bonus for winning rookie of the year?

Simmons is a SIGNIFICANTLY better passer than Odom, which is why that isn't a great comparison from a basketball standpoint.  Simmons is much closer to Magic's style of play, though he may have more of an Odom personality. 

[Erik]

Two completely different players. One is a point guard one is a small forward. Simmons is a good PG and Brown is a good SF. One has a ceiling of Magic the other has a ceiling of LeBron. Who is better between magic and LeBron? Who the hell knows. I'd rate them equal at this point: future all star.

I'm not singling you out, as many have made the comparison, but the whole Magic Johnson ceiling idea is ridiculous. There have been many tall players who could dribble, pass, rebound, and who also struggled to shoot. The thing that made Earvin Johnson "Magic", was his deep desire to win and being a team leader. Since seeing him playing for LSU, I have not seen any sign of either of those traits. The best comparison I have seen is Lamar Odom.

I'm not sure we agree with what a ceiling is. Is he currently Magic Johnson? No. Does he have the physical tools and skill to eventually replicate his game? Yes.

I'm not sure if you are old enough to remember Magic's first few years, but his nickname was "Tragic" Johnson due to reckless play. So far, he is playing very well. Also, Lamar Odom was never a point guard, and to be quite frank, never played as good in his prime as what Simmons is currently showing. So if Odom is his ceiling, in your opinion, he's already reached it.

[GratefulCs]

Two completely different players. One is a point guard one is a small forward. Simmons is a good PG and Brown is a good SF. One has a ceiling of Magic the other has a ceiling of LeBron. Who is better between magic and LeBron? Who the hell knows. I'd rate them equal at this point: future all star.

I'm not singling you out, as many have made the comparison, but the whole Magic Johnson ceiling idea is ridiculous. There have been many tall players who could dribble, pass, rebound, and who also struggled to shoot. The thing that made Earvin Johnson "Magic", was his deep desire to win and being a team leader. Since seeing him playing for LSU, I have not seen any sign of either of those traits. The best comparison I have seen is Lamar Odom.

I'm not sure we agree with what a ceiling is. Is he currently Magic Johnson? No. Does he have the physical tools and skill to eventually replicate his game? Yes.

I'm not sure if you are old enough to remember Magic's first few years, but his nickname was "Tragic" Johnson due to reckless play. So far, he is playing very well. Also, Lamar Odom was never a point guard, and to be quite frank, never played as good in his prime as what Simmons is currently showing. So if Odom is his ceiling, in your opinion, he's already reached it.

ya

odom is more of a floor

but their game's are different anyway...so  i'm not sure

[tazzmaniac]

Good to see the homerism set aside with some sensible voting.  Brown is performing significantly better than I expected but Simmons was the clear #1 choice in the 2016 draft and he would be in a re-draft today.  Ingram was actually my favorite player from that draft. 

As for Simmon's play so far, he's actually been playing pretty good D.  He's started to take and make elbow jumpers.  He's been playing off the ball in the half court a fair amount.  Surprisingly Simmons and McConnell have looked good together.   Simmons FT shooting definitely needs to improve but Jaylen is only shooting 62.9% himself. 

[Erik]

Good to see the homerism set aside with some sensible voting.  Brown is performing significantly better than I expected

Of course he's performing better than you expected because, with all due respect, from what I've seen so far you're either a Celtics pessimist or a disguised Sixers fan.

To the rest of us, it's not that surprising at all.

If I had to redraft the 2016 draft right now, I'd take Brown over Simmons for the Celtics due to the fact that we already have our playmaker. I'd take Simmons over Brown for the Sixers. They're both playing exceptional basketball and the decision is certainly not "clear." I believe that Brown has a  higher ceiling than Simmons. He's the kind of talent that can become your Jimmy Butler, LeBron James, Kahwi Leonard, type unstoppable 2 way wings which are super valuable in the NBA. Simmons will make his teammates much better like a good point guard should, but I think that defenses will learn to control his scoring very, very soon. He should not be averaging 18.5 ppg, and you'll continue to see well coached teams (like Boston) limit him to about 10 ppg.

[nickagneta]

I voted Simmons because he has higher upside in raw talent measurables but I think that due to Jaylen's work ethic, athleticism and, mental toughness, he could end up being a better player. Jaylen also fits this team better given the rest of the roster.

[celticsclay]

Two completely different players. One is a point guard one is a small forward. Simmons is a good PG and Brown is a good SF. One has a ceiling of Magic the other has a ceiling of LeBron. Who is better between magic and LeBron? Who the hell knows. I'd rate them equal at this point: future all star.

I'm not singling you out, as many have made the comparison, but the whole Magic Johnson ceiling idea is ridiculous. There have been many tall players who could dribble, pass, rebound, and who also struggled to shoot. The thing that made Earvin Johnson "Magic", was his deep desire to win and being a team leader. Since seeing him playing for LSU, I have not seen any sign of either of those traits. The best comparison I have seen is Lamar Odom.

I'm not sure we agree with what a ceiling is. Is he currently Magic Johnson? No. Does he have the physical tools and skill to eventually replicate his game? Yes.

I'm not sure if you are old enough to remember Magic's first few years, but his nickname was "Tragic" Johnson due to reckless play. So far, he is playing very well. Also, Lamar Odom was never a point guard, and to be quite frank, never played as good in his prime as what Simmons is currently showing. So if Odom is his ceiling, in your opinion, he's already reached it.

Odom did average 17 points, 8 rebounds and 5 assists when he was 21 (simmons age now). So they had pretty similar starts to their career. Odom also probably had his stats suppressed during his prime because he was on a loaded Lakers team that was making the finals and had Gasol and Bryant (and sometimes Bynum) as top 3 options. He was basically averaging 15 points and 10 rebounds and 4-5 assists for a number of those years and on a different team it could have easily been 20 points, 12 rebounds and 7-8 assists if he was running the offense without Kobe.

All this is to say is that Odom was really a pretty amazing player and through a combination of off the court problems, occasional issues with effort and the fact that he played on loaded teams he is probably a lot better player than the average fan gives him credit for. If Simmons does have his head on straight though he will certainly have a better career than Odom.