Author Topic: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI  (Read 10635 times)

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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #330 on: February 06, 2018, 03:12:50 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I still think Philly wins regardless if Butler plays or not. If anything, the Pats DBs clearly did a better job of covering their receivers than Philly. It seemed like Foles had to make pin point passes virtually every time because his guys always seemed to have been covered. Brady, on the other hand, was completing passes to guys that didn't have a defensive player within 5, 10, or sometimes 15 yards of his receiver.
Butler is one of your best tacklers in the secondary. We didn't lose because the coverage was god-awful (it was not great, but not putrid either), we lost because we gave up yards after the catch in situations where one good tackle gets you off the field. Having someone like Butler who can close space quickly and tackle reliably was absolutely the difference. You only need to look as far as that 3rd and 8th in the third quarter when Bademosi had Agholor in his hands 4 yards or so short of a first and couldn't bring him down.

Let's not make it seem like Foles was just throwing passes to guys that were 5 yards or less past the line of scrimmage. Foles was spreading the ball all over the field. With the way Foles was throwing the ball, and assuming the Pats tackled every time after the catch, then the game would have just ended up being a slow painful death (Pats lose). It would have just lead to multiple 7 plus minute drives for Philly, the Pats defense would have been totally exhausted in the fourth quarter, and it wouldn't have been a one score game at the end. And BTW, Philly showed they were willing to go for it on fourth down on multiple occasions too. Philly wasn't going to be denied and showed they were willing to do anything to win. The Pats seemed like they thought they were going to win just because they showed up.
I've got no idea what you're talking about. When you stop the other team on third down, that means you're actually putting your offense in the game and your defense gets to rest.

There were specific situations where you needed to make one tackle to get off the field, and the Patriots weren't able to. In some of those cases, the guilty party was a player who wouldn't have been on the field if Butler was simply demoted to 3rd corner rather than yanked from the rotation altogether.

You referenced how the Pats could have stopped Philly on one third down play but missed the tackle.  I don't recall Philly going for a field goal on fourth and goal, after the Pats made a third down stop. I also don't recall Philly punting the ball in the fourth when the Pats made another third down stop. Like I said, Philly was not playing it safe. Yes, Philly did punt once, but they also showed they were willing to use four downs to make the first down too.

My point about the tackling issue is that Foles was throwing the ball in the air past the first down marker, and getting first downs regardless of the run after the catch. He wasn't dinking and dunking like Kansas City's former QB Alex Smith. Foles was also pin point accurate. Unless I'm forgetting the whole game already, you may have referenced one of the few exceptions. From my perspective, Philly was going to score virtually every time they got the ball, but the time of possession of each drive just depended on the Patriots ability to tackle.

I still think Philly's defense played far worse than the Pats.

Well, Philly gave up fewer points, which is really all that matters in the end. Though I think that New England's offense helped out Philly's D in the first half by going conservative—if they'd been aggressive then, they probably win in spite of their bad D, and then in that case you could say for sure that, yes, Philly's defense was worse.
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #331 on: February 06, 2018, 03:45:27 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Where the Pats lost the game, IMO:

If they go for the 4th and less than a half yard from the 5 in the first quarter, I could totally see them making it and punching it in...7 points lost.

If on the 4th and 5 from the 35 they kick the FG instead of going for it....3 points lost

Missed PAT...one point loss.

That's the game in my opinion. Bad coaching decisions by Belichick whereas Pederson was aggressive all game.

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #332 on: February 06, 2018, 03:59:44 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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Where the Pats lost the game, IMO:

If they go for the 4th and less than a half yard from the 5 in the first quarter, I could totally see them making it and punching it in...7 points lost.

If on the 4th and 5 from the 35 they kick the FG instead of going for it....3 points lost

Missed PAT...one point loss.

That's the game in my opinion. Bad coaching decisions by Belichick whereas Pederson was aggressive all game.

You've got the benefit of hindsight.  It's easy to say that Pederson's decisions worked out better than Belichick's, but that doesn't necessarily make them poor decisions.  Poor execution was more the problem.


Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #333 on: February 06, 2018, 04:03:06 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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If they go for the 4th and less than a half yard from the 5 in the first quarter, I could totally see them making it and punching it in...7 points lost.



This is a good point that I'd forgotten about; I remember being surprised and disappointed they kicked a FG instead of going for it.  Unless it's a game winning field goal, I don't know why you wouldn't just take your chances.  Worst case you pin the opponent on their own 5.
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #334 on: February 06, 2018, 04:06:14 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Where the Pats lost the game, IMO:

If they go for the 4th and less than a half yard from the 5 in the first quarter, I could totally see them making it and punching it in...7 points lost.

If on the 4th and 5 from the 35 they kick the FG instead of going for it....3 points lost

Missed PAT...one point loss.

That's the game in my opinion. Bad coaching decisions by Belichick whereas Pederson was aggressive all game.

You've got the benefit of hindsight.  It's easy to say that Pederson's decisions worked out better than Belichick's, but that doesn't necessarily make them poor decisions.  Poor execution was more the problem.
and if the Eagles don't miss a PAT, they don't go for 2 in the first half (which they missed), and then also don't go for 2 in the second half (which they also missed).  That is 3 points the Eagles left on the table, all because they missed the first PAT and have an aggressive coach, but what if the Eagles lost the game because they missed those 3 points. 

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #335 on: February 06, 2018, 04:17:00 PM »

Offline jambr380

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And if the Pats stop the Eagles on that 4th and 1 (oh so close) in the 4th quarter, they get the ball back, up by 1 on the Philly side of the field.

There are a million different scenarios where the Pats should have won.

In the end, though, it really comes down to the complete lack of pressure on Foles. Did he even get knocked down once? I know people are saying that he still had to make the passes, but any half-way decent QB can make accurate passes if they just get to stand in the pocket without any chance of pressure. I actually thought the DBs did a decent job given the circumstances.

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #336 on: February 06, 2018, 04:25:23 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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And if the Pats stop the Eagles on that 4th and 1 (oh so close) in the 4th quarter, they get the ball back, up by 1 on the Philly side of the field.

There are a million different scenarios where the Pats should have won.

In the end, though, it really comes down to the complete lack of pressure on Foles. Did he even get knocked down once? I know people are saying that he still had to make the passes, but any half-way decent QB can make accurate passes if they just get to stand in the pocket without any chance of pressure. I actually thought the DBs did a decent job given the circumstances.

I recall seeing him hurried maybe 3 times, but no knockdowns. I credit him for making the plays he made, but yeah, lots of nonstar QBs could've done well in those circumstances.
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #337 on: February 06, 2018, 04:31:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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And if the Pats stop the Eagles on that 4th and 1 (oh so close) in the 4th quarter, they get the ball back, up by 1 on the Philly side of the field.

There are a million different scenarios where the Pats should have won.

In the end, though, it really comes down to the complete lack of pressure on Foles. Did he even get knocked down once? I know people are saying that he still had to make the passes, but any half-way decent QB can make accurate passes if they just get to stand in the pocket without any chance of pressure. I actually thought the DBs did a decent job given the circumstances.

I recall seeing him hurried maybe 3 times, but no knockdowns. I credit him for making the plays he made, but yeah, lots of nonstar QBs could've done well in those circumstances.
Credit that Philly O line. They were the stars of the game.

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #338 on: February 06, 2018, 04:43:04 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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The Patriots were down five points and driving with plenty of time and the best "closing drive" players and coaches in history.

Brady fumbled. Eagles made it 8 points and took time off the clock.

What exactly this has to do with whom was playing cornerback is beyond me.

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #339 on: February 06, 2018, 04:44:29 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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The Patriots were down five points and driving with plenty of time and the best "closing drive" players and coaches in history.

Brady fumbled. Eagles made it 8 points and took time off the clock.

What exactly this has to do with whom was playing cornerback is beyond me.
It might come as a shock to you, but there were 48 minutes of football prior to that which did, in fact, affect the final outcome of the game.
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #340 on: February 06, 2018, 04:44:51 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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And if the Pats stop the Eagles on that 4th and 1 (oh so close) in the 4th quarter, they get the ball back, up by 1 on the Philly side of the field.

There are a million different scenarios where the Pats should have won.

In the end, though, it really comes down to the complete lack of pressure on Foles. Did he even get knocked down once? I know people are saying that he still had to make the passes, but any half-way decent QB can make accurate passes if they just get to stand in the pocket without any chance of pressure. I actually thought the DBs did a decent job given the circumstances.

I recall seeing him hurried maybe 3 times, but no knockdowns. I credit him for making the plays he made, but yeah, lots of nonstar QBs could've done well in those circumstances.
I think the official stat is 5 QB hits for the Pats. I certainly recall seeing Foles hit pretty hard at least once.
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #341 on: February 06, 2018, 04:47:13 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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The Patriots were down five points and driving with plenty of time and the best "closing drive" players and coaches in history.

Brady fumbled. Eagles made it 8 points and took time off the clock.

What exactly this has to do with whom was playing cornerback is beyond me.

For a team that allowed 41 points in the biggest game of their careers, mostly had everything to do with certain cornerbacks playing aside from horrible game-planning.

And for the record, Shaq Mason didn't beat Graham on time thus the strip sacked happened.

Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #342 on: February 06, 2018, 04:48:00 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #343 on: February 06, 2018, 05:04:54 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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And if the Pats stop the Eagles on that 4th and 1 (oh so close) in the 4th quarter, they get the ball back, up by 1 on the Philly side of the field.

There are a million different scenarios where the Pats should have won.

In the end, though, it really comes down to the complete lack of pressure on Foles. Did he even get knocked down once? I know people are saying that he still had to make the passes, but any half-way decent QB can make accurate passes if they just get to stand in the pocket without any chance of pressure. I actually thought the DBs did a decent job given the circumstances.

I recall seeing him hurried maybe 3 times, but no knockdowns. I credit him for making the plays he made, but yeah, lots of nonstar QBs could've done well in those circumstances.
Credit that Philly O line. They were the stars of the game.

I certainly give them credit. Then again, it's not like they were trying to stop Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour, and a prime James Harrison.

And if the Pats stop the Eagles on that 4th and 1 (oh so close) in the 4th quarter, they get the ball back, up by 1 on the Philly side of the field.

There are a million different scenarios where the Pats should have won.

In the end, though, it really comes down to the complete lack of pressure on Foles. Did he even get knocked down once? I know people are saying that he still had to make the passes, but any half-way decent QB can make accurate passes if they just get to stand in the pocket without any chance of pressure. I actually thought the DBs did a decent job given the circumstances.

I recall seeing him hurried maybe 3 times, but no knockdowns. I credit him for making the plays he made, but yeah, lots of nonstar QBs could've done well in those circumstances.
I think the official stat is 5 QB hits for the Pats. I certainly recall seeing Foles hit pretty hard at least once.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew it was very little pressure.
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Re: Super Bowl LII: NE vs. PHI
« Reply #344 on: February 06, 2018, 05:13:02 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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And if the Pats stop the Eagles on that 4th and 1 (oh so close) in the 4th quarter, they get the ball back, up by 1 on the Philly side of the field.

There are a million different scenarios where the Pats should have won.

In the end, though, it really comes down to the complete lack of pressure on Foles. Did he even get knocked down once? I know people are saying that he still had to make the passes, but any half-way decent QB can make accurate passes if they just get to stand in the pocket without any chance of pressure. I actually thought the DBs did a decent job given the circumstances.

I recall seeing him hurried maybe 3 times, but no knockdowns. I credit him for making the plays he made, but yeah, lots of nonstar QBs could've done well in those circumstances.
Credit that Philly O line. They were the stars of the game.

I certainly give them credit. Then again, it's not like they were trying to stop Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour, and a prime James Harrison.

Yeah, except that same Pats defense had like 11 sacks in the last two games in the playoffs. I give a ton of credit to that Philly O line.