Author Topic: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI  (Read 927 times)

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Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« on: October 30, 2017, 10:31:21 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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So in a developing situation, Manafort seems to be the first casualty of the Russia investigation. Tax fraud though? Really?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41804740
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Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2017, 10:41:49 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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a bit of a let down that there's no explicit connection to the campaign at this point but I guess it's a starting point. 

any comment/news if there's more to come or they're just hoping to use this to roll over Manafort to get higher people in the campaign?

Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2017, 10:43:14 AM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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a bit of a let down that there's no explicit connection to the campaign at this point but I guess it's a starting point. 

any comment/news if there's more to come or they're just hoping to use this to roll over Manafort to get higher people in the campaign?

Tip of iceberg.

Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2017, 10:44:01 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
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Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2017, 10:50:09 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
horrible how?

I read it but there's strong cases and not-so-strong cases.  I would normally figure they'd have to have strong case after all this but in this situation they're trying to get him to rollover on other people in the campaign so I'm wondering how solid the case is (how likely is the threat of possible conviction) and how much time he's looking at if convicted (leverage for rollover).

The charges look serious but nothing that explicitly links to Trump's campaign or Russian collusion. 

truly hope there's more to come and this was just the low hanging fruit in the investigation

Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2017, 10:52:49 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
horrible how?

I read it but there's strong cases and not-so-strong cases.  I would normally figure they'd have to have strong case after all this but in this situation they're trying to get him to rollover on other people in the campaign so I'm wondering how solid the case is (how likely is the threat of possible conviction) and how much time he's looking at if convicted (leverage for rollover).

The charges look serious but nothing that explicitly links to Trump's campaign or Russian collusion. 

truly hope there's more to come and this was just the low hanging fruit in the investigation
The charges are horrible for Manafort, not for Trump. They essentially spell out the fact that he was paid a pile of money to be Putin's mouthpiece. Conviction or not, this should be his political death sentence.
(Formerly) managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2017, 10:54:41 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
horrible how?

I read it but there's strong cases and not-so-strong cases.  I would normally figure they'd have to have strong case after all this but in this situation they're trying to get him to rollover on other people in the campaign so I'm wondering how solid the case is (how likely is the threat of possible conviction) and how much time he's looking at if convicted (leverage for rollover).

The charges look serious but nothing that explicitly links to Trump's campaign or Russian collusion. 

truly hope there's more to come and this was just the low hanging fruit in the investigation
The charges are horrible for Manafort, not for Trump. They essentially spell out the fact that he was paid a pile of money to be Putin's mouthpiece. Conviction or not, this should be his political death sentence.
thanks for the clarification -- TP for taking the time.

Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2017, 10:57:52 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.

Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2017, 11:11:28 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?
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Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2017, 11:17:03 AM »

Offline danglertx

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All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
horrible how?

I read it but there's strong cases and not-so-strong cases.  I would normally figure they'd have to have strong case after all this but in this situation they're trying to get him to rollover on other people in the campaign so I'm wondering how solid the case is (how likely is the threat of possible conviction) and how much time he's looking at if convicted (leverage for rollover).

The charges look serious but nothing that explicitly links to Trump's campaign or Russian collusion. 

truly hope there's more to come and this was just the low hanging fruit in the investigation
The charges are horrible for Manafort, not for Trump. They essentially spell out the fact that he was paid a pile of money to be Putin's mouthpiece. Conviction or not, this should be his political death sentence.

I read the same thing and I'm wondering about the Putin mouthpiece thing.  Didn't all this money come from the Ukraine?  Doesn't the Ukraine hate Russia especially after Russia just stole Crimea from them?  How does taking money from Ukraine make him Putin's mouthpiece?

Is there something I am missing in that?  Basically they are nailing Manafort for tax evasion.  Not sure why that hurts Trump.

Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2017, 11:19:18 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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All indictments that were unsealed today can be read here. I've read five pages of the Gates/Manafort document, and it looks horrible.

https://www.justice.gov/sco
horrible how?

I read it but there's strong cases and not-so-strong cases.  I would normally figure they'd have to have strong case after all this but in this situation they're trying to get him to rollover on other people in the campaign so I'm wondering how solid the case is (how likely is the threat of possible conviction) and how much time he's looking at if convicted (leverage for rollover).

The charges look serious but nothing that explicitly links to Trump's campaign or Russian collusion. 

truly hope there's more to come and this was just the low hanging fruit in the investigation
The charges are horrible for Manafort, not for Trump. They essentially spell out the fact that he was paid a pile of money to be Putin's mouthpiece. Conviction or not, this should be his political death sentence.

I read the same thing and I'm wondering about the Putin mouthpiece thing.  Didn't all this money come from the Ukraine?  Doesn't the Ukraine hate Russia especially after Russia just stole Crimea from them?  How does taking money from Ukraine make him Putin's mouthpiece?

Is there something I am missing in that?  Basically they are nailing Manafort for tax evasion.  Not sure why that hurts Trump.
Manafort received money from the Party of the Regions, which is essentially Putin's party. He also worked for former President Yanukovich, who was largely a Russian stooge. That's basically cash for representing Russian interests in Ukraine -- that much is also spelled out in the indictment.
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Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2017, 11:19:43 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

Don't know enough about the relevant law but I believe definitely not categorically illegal for a campaign to meet with foreign officials. It'd be doing so for election assistance, especially from stolen information, that would be the major issue. 

And of course, lying to the FBI about it, then the next day deleting your Facebook you were using to message foreign agents about collusion.  ;D

Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2017, 11:31:11 AM »

Offline danglertx

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Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

There is a law that US citizen's can't meet with government officials from other countries? Yikes, bunch of people going to jail.  And this wasn't even someone for the Russian government, it was a Professor. 

I like that you throw in collude to get the emails back instead of, asking the Russians for US property to be returned to the American people.  There was no colluding, they asked for the emails if Russia took them.   Colluding implies a working together.  Whatever Russia had, if they had them, they already stole.  If the FBI can't get those emails off Hillary's bleach bit hard drive, I'm pretty certain the Russians can't.

Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2017, 11:42:47 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

There is a law that US citizen's can't meet with government officials from other countries? Yikes, bunch of people going to jail.  And this wasn't even someone for the Russian government, it was a Professor. 

I like that you throw in collude to get the emails back instead of, asking the Russians for US property to be returned to the American people. There was no colluding, they asked for the emails if Russia took them.   Colluding implies a working together.  Whatever Russia had, if they had them, they already stole.  If the FBI can't get those emails off Hillary's bleach bit hard drive, I'm pretty certain the Russians can't.

Partisanship is a helluva drug. Holy cow, the mental contortions it must take to believe this. Presumably he just lied to the FBI about it out of modesty?

The emails they're almost certainly talking about, BTW, are the ones from Podesta's account which were stolen just a couple of weeks before Papadopoulus and the campaign was notified. The ones Wikileaks eventually released hours after the Access Hollywood video broke and have repeatedly claimed didn't come from Russia.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 11:49:07 AM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Manafort asked to surrender to FBI
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2017, 11:55:42 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Manafort's the headline, but the more meaningful story for the big picture may be that George Papadopoulus, a foreign policy advisor to Trump's campaign, pleaded guilty to charges related to, at minimum, attempting to collude with the Russian gov't to get emails from Hillary Clinton.

Plea documents here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf

This plea and the statements in the doc that Papadopoulus has been giving info to the feds strongly suggests he's flipped and is aiding investigations against others to save himself.

Manafort himself is of course dirty as hell, particularly with Russia, and it was widely known - there were stories about this from the day he joined the campaign. Now the question is if he flips on anyone else too.
So this plea said Papadopolous "repeatedly sought to arrange ... a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials". Isn't that against US law?

There is a law that US citizen's can't meet with government officials from other countries? Yikes, bunch of people going to jail.  And this wasn't even someone for the Russian government, it was a Professor.
You'd be shocked about the things you can find in the US code if you'd only read. Here's one bit for your perusal:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953

The Trump campaign is threading a thin line. They are probably lucky that they had someone on their staff with two brain cells to rub together who figured out that it's best to avoid obvious smoking guns.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 12:01:36 PM by kozlodoev »
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