Kyrie's defense (merged threads)

[jdz101]

He is very active and has good hands and has been much less of a liability than IT was.

BUT, this man dies on every screen. I dont think Ive ever seen anyone so bad at getting over screens. It is remarkable.

Watch Lonzo Ball play.

He gets picked off but I honestly don't think IT was any better at not getting picked off. IT showed a lot of fake hustle when he got screened.

[Phantom255x]

He's definitely putting more effort into it this season, but he's not a good defender. He's doing some positive things though and with him on the court the C's are playing elite defense overall.

He's obviously not, but if he can at least play average/meh on defense and not be a pure liability at that end on every possession, that's fine.

He's obviously not locking anyone down, but like Curry, he can be disruptive on the defensive end (deflecting passes, etc.)

[smokeablount]

More like top 10.  I told you idiots to be patient..

As someone that's actually been pro trade and pro Kyrie defense this entire time, I'm pretty sure you have been poo pooing about Kyrie for what, two months? 

[Phantom255x]

More like top 10.  I told you idiots to be patient..

As someone that's actually been pro trade and pro Kyrie defense this entire time, I'm pretty sure you have been poo pooing about Kyrie for what, two months?

I assumed his comment was sarcasm lol. He hated the trade. I didn't like it either, but not b/c of the player, but b/c of the overall package (which was an overpay). But that was the past.

[smokeablount]

More like top 10.  I told you idiots to be patient..

As someone that's actually been pro trade and pro Kyrie defense this entire time, I'm pretty sure you have been poo pooing about Kyrie for what, two months?

I assumed his comment was sarcasm lol. He hated the trade. I didn't like it either, but not b/c of the player, but b/c of the overall package (which was an overpay). But that was the past.

Yeah I was trying to figure out if it was sarcasm based on the first sentence, but the second sentence ruins any effect from the first, and in any event there's no rebuttal to the value of those stats and no counter to the OP's claim.  But in any event, TP for you.

[Phantom255x]

More like top 10.  I told you idiots to be patient..

As someone that's actually been pro trade and pro Kyrie defense this entire time, I'm pretty sure you have been poo pooing about Kyrie for what, two months?

I assumed his comment was sarcasm lol. He hated the trade. I didn't like it either, but not b/c of the player, but b/c of the overall package (which was an overpay). But that was the past.

Yeah I was trying to figure out if it was sarcasm based on the first sentence, but the second sentence ruins any effect from the first, and in any event there's no rebuttal to the value of those stats and no counter to the OP's claim.  But in any event, TP for you.

And a TP back at you!

I wonder if Isaiah's defense will actually get WORSE once he returns (due to hips).. if that's even possible lol. 

[Erik]

Kyrie is currently 1.7 in defensive box plus minus -- a category he has always been negative. For example last year he was -2.3. That's a +4 point swing which is basically unheard of for a veteran player.  iT was -3.3 last season.

It's not that he couldnt play defense... he has the tools (height,  strength, quickness). No one played defense for the Cavs because they're led by a lousy coach that mails in the regular season.

[GreenEnvy]

Kyrie is currently 1.7 in defensive box plus minus -- a category he has always been negative. For example last year he was -2.3. That's a +4 point swing which is basically unheard of for a veteran player.  iT was -3.3 last season.

It's not that he couldnt play defense... he has the tools (height,  strength, quickness). No one played defense for the Cavs because they're led by a lousy coach that mails in the regular season.

If it’s so unheard of, maybe let’s wait more than 7 games to lay such praise. If he keeps it up, we got ourselves a truly great player. If he regresses to the defense he played his entire career prior to wearing green, we got a supremely skilled offensive player.

But it’s very early in the season, I’m sure he had 7+ game stretches of good defensive metrics in Cleveland.

[tarheelsxxiii]

More like top 10.  I told you idiots to be patient..

As someone that's actually been pro trade and pro Kyrie defense this entire time, I'm pretty sure you have been poo pooing about Kyrie for what, two months?

I assumed his comment was sarcasm lol. He hated the trade. I didn't like it either, but not b/c of the player, but b/c of the overall package (which was an overpay). But that was the past.

Yeah I was trying to figure out if it was sarcasm based on the first sentence, but the second sentence ruins any effect from the first, and in any event there's no rebuttal to the value of those stats and no counter to the OP's claim.  But in any event, TP for you.

It was a joke.  I'm still getting over the trade, but he has been a lot better on defense than I expected.  So quit your secret handshakes.

[Erik]

Kyrie is currently 1.7 in defensive box plus minus -- a category he has always been negative. For example last year he was -2.3. That's a +4 point swing which is basically unheard of for a veteran player.  iT was -3.3 last season.

It's not that he couldnt play defense... he has the tools (height,  strength, quickness). No one played defense for the Cavs because they're led by a lousy coach that mails in the regular season.

If it’s so unheard of, maybe let’s wait more than 7 games to lay such praise. If he keeps it up, we got ourselves a truly great player. If he regresses to the defense he played his entire career prior to wearing green, we got a supremely skilled offensive player.

But it’s very early in the season, I’m sure he had 7+ game stretches of good defensive metrics in Cleveland.

Yeah let's just go ahead and shut down the forum while we're at it. It's too soon in the season to begin posting commentary or having fun. Close out all the Tatum hype threads... he could still be a bust.

It could be a fluke or he's bought into team defense. We're just having fun as the data points come in. I don't understand why the "it's too early" people have to be such killjoys

[DefenseWinsChamps]

TP to the OP.

He is at least a good defender this year. He has just as many airhead moments as Bradley had in games last year (losing his man off ball, not rotating well, etc.).

[fairweatherfan]

This is like early on a couple seasons back when some metrics were scoring Olynyk as one of the best defenders in the league. 

It's a testament to defensive effort and improvement but shouldn't be interpreted as them actually being at that lofty a level. Kyrie will regress to the mean but we should still take this as a very positive sign.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

This is like early on a couple seasons back when some metrics were scoring Olynyk as one of the best defenders in the league. 

It's a testament to defensive effort and improvement but shouldn't be interpreted as them actually being at that lofty a level. Kyrie will regress to the mean but we should still take this as a very positive sign.

That Olynyk reference seems like a dig. He has been much better than Olynyk ever was so far. With Olynyk, the eye test did not match the measurable. With Kyrie, so far they match up.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

He is very active and has good hands and has been much less of a liability than IT was.

BUT, this man dies on every screen. I dont think Ive ever seen anyone so bad at getting over screens. It is remarkable.

How was Isaiah in that regard? Regarding the screens?

better.

Welp..

Well, about 2/3rds of the time we are switching this season. So, Kyrie kinda' should be "dying" on the screen.

[smokeablount]

More like top 10.  I told you idiots to be patient..

As someone that's actually been pro trade and pro Kyrie defense this entire time, I'm pretty sure you have been poo pooing about Kyrie for what, two months?

I assumed his comment was sarcasm lol. He hated the trade. I didn't like it either, but not b/c of the player, but b/c of the overall package (which was an overpay). But that was the past.

Yeah I was trying to figure out if it was sarcasm based on the first sentence, but the second sentence ruins any effect from the first, and in any event there's no rebuttal to the value of those stats and no counter to the OP's claim.  But in any event, TP for you.

It was a joke.  I'm still getting over the trade, but he has been a lot better on defense than I expected.  So quit your secret handshakes.

I just want you to be happy bro! I know you're a UNC guy but our (suddenly 2-way) alpha dog and our (historically efficient thus far) impact rookie are Dukies. Can't the ACC just get along???