Author Topic: Marvin Bagley Thread  (Read 9660 times)

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Re: Marvin Bagley Thread
« Reply #90 on: June 05, 2018, 11:00:19 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

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For me, it's

1. Doncic
2. Bagley
3. Ayton
4. Bamba
5. Jackson

Bagley is one of those prospects who did everything anyone asked of him, but he came in the season with such hype that now everyone nitpicks his game.

Somehow, different narratives formed around him that have prevented him from being at the top of this year's draft. Here are my responses:

1. He doesn't have elite length. The truth is, he has great length, but he doesn't have Bamba/Ayton length. His length is comparable to Horford and Love.
2. He isn't a great shooter. The truth is, he shot 40% from three at Duke this season.
3. He isn't a great defender. The truth is, while he doesn't have the gaudy block numbers other prospects have, he plays good position defense. He is every bit as versatile of a defender as Jackson, without the block numbers inside.
4. He is too left-hand dominate. The truth is, no one says that about right-handed players at a similar stage of development, but it is more noticeable when the player is left-handed. He has an elite knack for finishing in a variety of different angles with his left-hand. Any player with that kind of feel will be successful at the next level.
5. He is not a great passer. The truth is, I've watched enough of him this year to know that he makes advanced reads on the opposing defense. He isn't fully developed, but the raw ability is definitely there. The problem was that Duke struggled to capitalize due to their poor outside shooting.

Bagley is a full 8 months younger than Ayton, has a higher free throw rate than any player in the top 10 (including Ayton), and did all of this stuck on a Duke team that had terrible spacing issues.

TP.

People talk about Bagley's wingspan, but his motor is 100x better than Ayton's. I think Ayton is one of the most overrated prospect we have seen. And I'll gladly eat crow, but I don't see his potential or ceiling anymore than a less enthused, and no defense playing lite version of DMC.
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Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

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Re: Marvin Bagley Thread
« Reply #91 on: June 05, 2018, 12:23:11 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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For me, it's

1. Doncic
2. Bagley
3. Ayton
4. Bamba
5. Jackson

Bagley is one of those prospects who did everything anyone asked of him, but he came in the season with such hype that now everyone nitpicks his game.

Somehow, different narratives formed around him that have prevented him from being at the top of this year's draft. Here are my responses:

1. He doesn't have elite length. The truth is, he has great length, but he doesn't have Bamba/Ayton length. His length is comparable to Horford and Love.
2. He isn't a great shooter. The truth is, he shot 40% from three at Duke this season.
3. He isn't a great defender. The truth is, while he doesn't have the gaudy block numbers other prospects have, he plays good position defense. He is every bit as versatile of a defender as Jackson, without the block numbers inside.
4. He is too left-hand dominate. The truth is, no one says that about right-handed players at a similar stage of development, but it is more noticeable when the player is left-handed. He has an elite knack for finishing in a variety of different angles with his left-hand. Any player with that kind of feel will be successful at the next level.
5. He is not a great passer. The truth is, I've watched enough of him this year to know that he makes advanced reads on the opposing defense. He isn't fully developed, but the raw ability is definitely there. The problem was that Duke struggled to capitalize due to their poor outside shooting.

Bagley is a full 8 months younger than Ayton, has a higher free throw rate than any player in the top 10 (including Ayton), and did all of this stuck on a Duke team that had terrible spacing issues.

I agree with some of your points. Bagley's length is not an issue, because he makes up for it with super quick hops. He's going to score like crazy in the NBA.

However, saying he is every bit as versatile a defender as Jackson? Bagley is not a plus defender right now, and Jackson is easily the best big defender in this draft.

He's really young and athletic, but he does not have a body that is likely to fill out much. The danger with drafting him is that he becomes a scorer, but doesn't make his team much better.

Several of the bigs in this draft have spectacular talent in one area, but also have major flaws. Its a tough group to evaluate. That's why I prefer Carter. He may not quite have the upside some of these guys have but he's the safest bet by a significant margin, and will likely be the easiest one to get.

Good thoughts.

Bagley showed he can defend the perimeter and inside. I think Jackson will be a good defender, but as far as the versatility to defend multiple position, I haven't seen a difference in their game.

I've also heard the narrative that he doesn't have a body that will fill out. I just disagree with this. He may not have wide shoulders, but to think that he can't add 15-25 pounds to his core, base, and shoulders -- i just don't agree. Add that much, and he is around 240, which is the normal playing weight for a lot of athletic centers. He won't be Dwight Howard, but I don't think weight or strength will be an issue.

As far as the scoring thing goes -- I get it. CBS has a way of leveraging talent into wins. Bagley has talent. I don't think he would be an empty stats guy with a good coach.

Re: Marvin Bagley Thread
« Reply #92 on: June 05, 2018, 12:52:17 PM »

Offline liam

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For me, it's

1. Doncic
2. Bagley
3. Ayton
4. Bamba
5. Jackson

Bagley is one of those prospects who did everything anyone asked of him, but he came in the season with such hype that now everyone nitpicks his game.

Somehow, different narratives formed around him that have prevented him from being at the top of this year's draft. Here are my responses:

1. He doesn't have elite length. The truth is, he has great length, but he doesn't have Bamba/Ayton length. His length is comparable to Horford and Love.
2. He isn't a great shooter. The truth is, he shot 40% from three at Duke this season.
3. He isn't a great defender. The truth is, while he doesn't have the gaudy block numbers other prospects have, he plays good position defense. He is every bit as versatile of a defender as Jackson, without the block numbers inside.
4. He is too left-hand dominate. The truth is, no one says that about right-handed players at a similar stage of development, but it is more noticeable when the player is left-handed. He has an elite knack for finishing in a variety of different angles with his left-hand. Any player with that kind of feel will be successful at the next level.
5. He is not a great passer. The truth is, I've watched enough of him this year to know that he makes advanced reads on the opposing defense. He isn't fully developed, but the raw ability is definitely there. The problem was that Duke struggled to capitalize due to their poor outside shooting.

Bagley is a full 8 months younger than Ayton, has a higher free throw rate than any player in the top 10 (including Ayton), and did all of this stuck on a Duke team that had terrible spacing issues.

TP.

People talk about Bagley's wingspan, but his motor is 100x better than Ayton's. I think Ayton is one of the most overrated prospect we have seen. And I'll gladly eat crow, but I don't see his potential or ceiling anymore than a less enthused, and no defense playing lite version of DMC.

Ayton looks like he should be dominant on both ends but seems to only want to play the one side. The Days of the offense only big man is over. You can't win with those guys.

Re: Marvin Bagley Thread
« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2018, 07:58:28 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

  • Bailey Howell
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For me, it's

1. Doncic
2. Bagley
3. Ayton
4. Bamba
5. Jackson

Bagley is one of those prospects who did everything anyone asked of him, but he came in the season with such hype that now everyone nitpicks his game.

Somehow, different narratives formed around him that have prevented him from being at the top of this year's draft. Here are my responses:

1. He doesn't have elite length. The truth is, he has great length, but he doesn't have Bamba/Ayton length. His length is comparable to Horford and Love.
2. He isn't a great shooter. The truth is, he shot 40% from three at Duke this season.
3. He isn't a great defender. The truth is, while he doesn't have the gaudy block numbers other prospects have, he plays good position defense. He is every bit as versatile of a defender as Jackson, without the block numbers inside.
4. He is too left-hand dominate. The truth is, no one says that about right-handed players at a similar stage of development, but it is more noticeable when the player is left-handed. He has an elite knack for finishing in a variety of different angles with his left-hand. Any player with that kind of feel will be successful at the next level.
5. He is not a great passer. The truth is, I've watched enough of him this year to know that he makes advanced reads on the opposing defense. He isn't fully developed, but the raw ability is definitely there. The problem was that Duke struggled to capitalize due to their poor outside shooting.

Bagley is a full 8 months younger than Ayton, has a higher free throw rate than any player in the top 10 (including Ayton), and did all of this stuck on a Duke team that had terrible spacing issues.

About his length, I'm gonna add a few thoughts. He has better or comparable wingspan (with similar or greater height) than Horford, Griffin, Gordon, Anthony, Randle, Kuzma, Markannen, Saric, Portis, Morris, Olynyk, Kaminsky, Johnson, Collins, and Lyles. That's 15 of the top 30 scoring power forwards this year in the NBA. He also has better or comparable wingspan than Love, Kanter, Sabonis, Powell, Plumlee, or Zeller. That's 6 of the top 32 scoring centers this last year.

It's not that wingpsan doesn't matter -- it definitely helps. It's just that it is pretty overblown. What matters is feel and skill. Bagley has both, and I'd suggest he has more than any other big man prospect in this draft.