Author Topic: Marvin Bagley  (Read 3465 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2017, 01:45:52 PM »

Offline chilidawg

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1743
  • Tommy Points: 219
David Robinson thinks bagley is like Tim Duncan
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/21606895/david-robinson-compares-marvin-bagley-iii-tim-duncan

Interesting comparison.  The Admiral would know.  I think he'd look ideal next to Horford, two mobile bigs with perimeter and interior skills.   Right now I'd guess he's going #1, but I haven't seen Ayton.

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2017, 04:05:35 AM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 984
  • Tommy Points: 248
Marvin Bagley III vs South Dakota

19 Points, 12 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 3 Blocks

https://youtu.be/w3t929UBtKk

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2017, 07:00:04 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33235
  • Tommy Points: -27966
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
This kid is the primary reason I'm still in wait and see mode on the Kyrie trade.  He's got legit super-duper-star potential.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2017, 07:14:05 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7501
  • Tommy Points: 767
This kid is the primary reason I'm still in wait and see mode on the Kyrie trade.  He's got legit super-duper-star potential.
total side-bar here, but when does wait and see mode end?

Like does it end when the season ends? Does it end on lottery night? Does it end on draft night? Does it end when the player acquired with that pick reaches his prime?

I think its really hard to decide when the fair time to judge a deal is.

I mean Danny Ainge acquired the Nets picks with no idea that theyd result in a #1 pick, a #3 pick and another presumed top 10 pick. Yet he gets tons of credit for it.

If Brown and Tatum were megabusts would he get the same level of credit for those trades? I mean the trade itself had nothing to do with the selections Danny made.

Another example is the KG trade. We sent Minny the pick they used to select Johnny Flynn.

When we look back at that trade it looks like KG for Big Al and whole bunch of nuthin. But what if you crossed out Johnny Flynn's name and penciled in Steph Curry?

All of a sudden its not the robbery its made out to be.

I think its interesting.

You can only evaluate a GM on the facts he had available at the time. Len Bias wasnt a bad pick because of his tragic death, but Ainge cant control that any more than he can control the ping pong balls in the lottery machine, or the decisions the Nets FO makes. Do you judge a trade based on the results, or the possible results, or some combination of the two?

This has been a rambling somewhat incoherent post, but I think its an interesting thing to think about if anyone can parse through my horribly constructed post and get the gist of what Im getting at.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2017, 07:39:23 AM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1492
  • Tommy Points: 336
This kid is the primary reason I'm still in wait and see mode on the Kyrie trade.  He's got legit super-duper-star potential.

Barring some crazy lotto luck, he is going to be awesome for the Hawks, Bulls or Suns.
My 2017 Draft Rankings:       My 2017 FA Celtic Rankings:
1.) Markelle Fultz                   1.) Gordon Hayward
2.) Jayson Tatum                   2.) Blake Griffin
3.) Lonzo Ball                           3.) No other realistic options
4.) Josh Jackson                          move the needle much
5.) Lauri Markkanen

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2017, 08:02:05 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33235
  • Tommy Points: -27966
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
When we look back at that trade it looks like KG for Big Al and whole bunch of nuthin. But what if you crossed out Johnny Flynn's name and penciled in Steph Curry?

As an aside, Minnesota didn’t get that pick in the KG trade. I know basketball-reference lists it, but they’re incorrect.

This kid is the primary reason I'm still in wait and see mode on the Kyrie trade.  He's got legit super-duper-star potential.

Barring some crazy lotto luck, he is going to be awesome for the Hawks, Bulls or Suns.

I sure hope so. If the Nets don’t move up, I’ll thrilled.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2017, 11:11:50 AM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3574
  • Tommy Points: 322
Quote
When we look back at that trade it looks like KG for Big Al and whole bunch of nuthin. But what if you crossed out Johnny Flynn's name and penciled in Steph Curry?

As an aside, Minnesota didn’t get that pick in the KG trade. I know basketball-reference lists it, but they’re incorrect.
It looks like the pick used on Flyyn was originally Minnesota's, traded to Boston in the Szczerbiak trade in 2006 and then reacquired by Minnesota in the Garnett trade. So basketball-reference is correct in the tracking of that pick.

Quote
It is believed the deal also calls for the Celtics to ship youngsters Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and Ryan Gomes to Minnesota, along with a future first-round draft pick and the return of a first-rounder the Wolves surrendered in the Wally Szczerbiak-Ricky Davis trade in January 2006.
http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=2954127

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2017, 11:21:54 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33235
  • Tommy Points: -27966
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
When we look back at that trade it looks like KG for Big Al and whole bunch of nuthin. But what if you crossed out Johnny Flynn's name and penciled in Steph Curry?

As an aside, Minnesota didn’t get that pick in the KG trade. I know basketball-reference lists it, but they’re incorrect.
It looks like the pick used on Flyyn was originally Minnesota's, traded to Boston in the Szczerbiak trade in 2006 and then reacquired by Minnesota in the Garnett trade. So basketball-reference is correct in the tracking of that pick.

Quote
It is believed the deal also calls for the Celtics to ship youngsters Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and Ryan Gomes to Minnesota, along with a future first-round draft pick and the return of a first-rounder the Wolves surrendered in the Wally Szczerbiak-Ricky Davis trade in January 2006.
http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=2954127

No, they’re not. That pick was heavily protected, and never would have ended up conveying.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2017, 04:10:35 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3574
  • Tommy Points: 322
Quote
When we look back at that trade it looks like KG for Big Al and whole bunch of nuthin. But what if you crossed out Johnny Flynn's name and penciled in Steph Curry?

As an aside, Minnesota didn’t get that pick in the KG trade. I know basketball-reference lists it, but they’re incorrect.
It looks like the pick used on Flyyn was originally Minnesota's, traded to Boston in the Szczerbiak trade in 2006 and then reacquired by Minnesota in the Garnett trade. So basketball-reference is correct in the tracking of that pick.

Quote
It is believed the deal also calls for the Celtics to ship youngsters Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and Ryan Gomes to Minnesota, along with a future first-round draft pick and the return of a first-rounder the Wolves surrendered in the Wally Szczerbiak-Ricky Davis trade in January 2006.
http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=2954127

No, they’re not. That pick was heavily protected, and never would have ended up conveying.
This is what I could find on the protections of that pick:

Quote
if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2007, pick is protected top 14 in 2009, top 5 in 2010, top 3 in 2011; if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2008, pick is protected top 14 in 2010, top 5 in 2011; if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2009, pick is protected top 14 in 2011; if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2010, pick is unprotected for 2012)
https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Years/2009.htm

This reads to me like it would've taken a long time but it would've conveyed eventually. I don't understand why you say the pick "never would have ended up conveying."

Regardless of what protections were on the pick, Minnesota did trade a conditional draft pick to Boston in 2006 and Boston traded that pick back in 2008 as part of the KG deal. It wasn't, specifically, the 2009 pick but 2009 is the earliest the pick could've conveyed if the conditions were met and after the KG deal those conditions were no longer in place (since the pick just belonged to Minnesota again, outright) so Basketball-reference seems to be correct in listing Jonny Flynn as the player taken with that pick and this site Pro Sports Transactions lists it the same way.

It's weird because Minnesota would never have had to give Boston the #6 pick in 2009 as part of that 2006 deal but when tracking who was taken with the pick involved in those 2 trades, the answer does seem to be Jonny Flynn.

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2017, 04:17:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31025
  • Tommy Points: 5170
Quote
When we look back at that trade it looks like KG for Big Al and whole bunch of nuthin. But what if you crossed out Johnny Flynn's name and penciled in Steph Curry?

As an aside, Minnesota didn’t get that pick in the KG trade. I know basketball-reference lists it, but they’re incorrect.
It looks like the pick used on Flyyn was originally Minnesota's, traded to Boston in the Szczerbiak trade in 2006 and then reacquired by Minnesota in the Garnett trade. So basketball-reference is correct in the tracking of that pick.

Quote
It is believed the deal also calls for the Celtics to ship youngsters Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and Ryan Gomes to Minnesota, along with a future first-round draft pick and the return of a first-rounder the Wolves surrendered in the Wally Szczerbiak-Ricky Davis trade in January 2006.
http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=2954127

No, they’re not. That pick was heavily protected, and never would have ended up conveying.
This is what I could find on the protections of that pick:

Quote
if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2007, pick is protected top 14 in 2009, top 5 in 2010, top 3 in 2011; if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2008, pick is protected top 14 in 2010, top 5 in 2011; if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2009, pick is protected top 14 in 2011; if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2010, pick is unprotected for 2012)
https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Years/2009.htm

This reads to me like it would've taken a long time but it would've conveyed eventually. I don't understand why you say the pick "never would have ended up conveying."

Regardless of what protections were on the pick, Minnesota did trade a conditional draft pick to Boston in 2006 and Boston traded that pick back in 2008 as part of the KG deal. It wasn't, specifically, the 2009 pick but 2009 is the earliest the pick could've conveyed if the conditions were met and after the KG deal those conditions were no longer in place (since the pick just belonged to Minnesota again, outright) so Basketball-reference seems to be correct in listing Jonny Flynn as the player taken with that pick and this site Pro Sports Transactions lists it the same way.

It's weird because Minnesota would never have had to give Boston the #6 pick in 2009 as part of that 2006 deal but when tracking who was taken with the pick involved in those 2 trades, the answer does seem to be Jonny Flynn.
The hilarious part about that draft is the Timberwolves drafted 3 PGs in the 1st round of that draft and had two shots at drafting Steph Curry and didn't.

KAHHHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNN!!!

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2017, 05:00:29 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33235
  • Tommy Points: -27966
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
When we look back at that trade it looks like KG for Big Al and whole bunch of nuthin. But what if you crossed out Johnny Flynn's name and penciled in Steph Curry?

As an aside, Minnesota didn’t get that pick in the KG trade. I know basketball-reference lists it, but they’re incorrect.
It looks like the pick used on Flyyn was originally Minnesota's, traded to Boston in the Szczerbiak trade in 2006 and then reacquired by Minnesota in the Garnett trade. So basketball-reference is correct in the tracking of that pick.

Quote
It is believed the deal also calls for the Celtics to ship youngsters Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and Ryan Gomes to Minnesota, along with a future first-round draft pick and the return of a first-rounder the Wolves surrendered in the Wally Szczerbiak-Ricky Davis trade in January 2006.
http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=2954127

No, they’re not. That pick was heavily protected, and never would have ended up conveying.
This is what I could find on the protections of that pick:

Quote
if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2007, pick is protected top 14 in 2009, top 5 in 2010, top 3 in 2011; if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2008, pick is protected top 14 in 2010, top 5 in 2011; if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2009, pick is protected top 14 in 2011; if Timberwolves send first round pick owed to Clippers in 2010, pick is unprotected for 2012)
https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Years/2009.htm

This reads to me like it would've taken a long time but it would've conveyed eventually. I don't understand why you say the pick "never would have ended up conveying."

Regardless of what protections were on the pick, Minnesota did trade a conditional draft pick to Boston in 2006 and Boston traded that pick back in 2008 as part of the KG deal. It wasn't, specifically, the 2009 pick but 2009 is the earliest the pick could've conveyed if the conditions were met and after the KG deal those conditions were no longer in place (since the pick just belonged to Minnesota again, outright) so Basketball-reference seems to be correct in listing Jonny Flynn as the player taken with that pick and this site Pro Sports Transactions lists it the same way.

It's weird because Minnesota would never have had to give Boston the #6 pick in 2009 as part of that 2006 deal but when tracking who was taken with the pick involved in those 2 trades, the answer does seem to be Jonny Flynn.

That’s incomplete. Here are the actual details, from Celtics.com:

Quote
   Aside from our own picks, the Celtics are likely entitled to receive a future first-round pick from the Minnesota Timberwolves. Due to a league rule prohibiting teams from ever placing themselves in a situation where two consecutive future first-round picks have been traded away, the Celtics cannot receive the first round pick the Timberwolves owe from the Ricky Davis/Wally Szczerbiak trade until two years after the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers (from the Sam Cassell/Marko Jaric trade). However, because the Clippers trade involved top 10 "protection," Minnesota only has to send the pick to the Clippers if the pick falls outside the top 10 picks in the draft. Therefore, in future years, Celtics fans should be rooting for Minnesota to win (when, of course, they're not playing against the Celtics) until the Timberwolves finish a season out of the bottom ten, and send their pick to the Clippers. Two years after this occurs, the Timberwolves will send their first-round pick to the Celtics, subject to some "protection" which decreases annually after the first year in which we could receive the pick.*

    The situation is further complicated by a league rule that prevents any deals being made involving drafts more than 7 drafts into the future; as a result the Celtics cannot receive Minnesota's pick after the 2012 draft, since the Ricky/Wally trade was made before the 2006 draft. Therefore, if the Timberwolves do not send a pick to the Clippers by the end of the 2010 draft, the Celtics will be unable to receive the Timberwolves' first-round pick in 2012, and will instead receive a second-round pick in 2012.

* For those die-hard draft fans who want all the details, here's how the protection on this pick works: If the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2007, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2009 if it falls outside of the top 14, in 2010 if it falls outside of the top 5, in 2011 if it falls outside of the top 3, or in 2012 unconditionally. If the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2008, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2010 if it falls outside of the top 14, in 2011 if it falls outside of the top 5, or in 2012 unconditionally. If the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2009, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2011 if it falls outside the top 14, or in 2012 unconditionally. Finally, if the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers in 2010, we receive the Timberwolves' pick in 2012 unconditionally.

The pick sent to Minnesota ended up being Minnesota’s own 2012 second round pick. That wasn’t Johnny Flynn.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2017, 05:17:45 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3638
  • Tommy Points: 283
Interesting debate about the Minni pick.

So in this case, it is true to say that Minni got Flynn in the trade but it is not true to say the Celtics gave up Flynn.  And it is also true that Minni would have gotten Flynn in either case as the protections would have prevented the pick from being conveyed.

What was the question again and what does this have to do with the Kyrie trade?

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2017, 05:54:26 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14896
  • Tommy Points: 946
He looks rock solid.

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2017, 06:32:24 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5031
  • Tommy Points: 543
As of right now I see a Chris Webber "light" big man playing in a weak big man era. He should definitely still be top 5 but he isn't worth the hype.
My Top 5
Trade targets.      Draft.                     FAs
1. Davis              1.Fultz              1. Griffin*
2. Cousins          2. Tatum          2. Hayward
3. Butler              3. Jackson       3. Millsap
4. George            4. Ball               4. Lowry
5. Favors             5. Isaac            5. Gali

Re: Marvin Bagley
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2017, 07:59:59 PM »

Offline jdz101

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3131
  • Tommy Points: 396
Purely from a very limited eye test, I'm more excited about Ayton.


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?