Author Topic: J. Okafor - Merged Thread  (Read 43125 times)

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Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #90 on: October 31, 2017, 07:25:54 PM »

Offline mctyson

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FWIW:  I would be interested in taking a flyer on Okafor, for the right price.

I think it's still way too early to completely give up on him.   He has size, wingspan and skills.  He didn't win that NCAA title by being a lousy basketball player.   I just think he has always been a total square peg since being picked by Philly for their round hole.   I think in the right environment and system he could be coached to be a good NBA player.

That said, due to the expiring nature of his contract and the risk that he cannot be salvaged. the price would have to be very reasonable.   Philly would be crazy to expect a top-half 1st round pick here.

I agree.  I'm not a fan of his game, but for something like a second rounder or two... why not take a flyer on him? We need depth at C anyway, worst case scenario is we pay him $5 million this year to sit on the bench (or at home if he pulls a Keith Bogans).  I wouldn't be a fan of cutting or trading someone to bring him in, but with the DPE, why not?
while i understand your points, i am still put off by his contract. if, as you say, he sits on the bench this year, then why pay him $5,000,000? if, as many people hope, he develops into a real player, then his salary demand will jump significantly and he will test the free agent market.

would the celtics be willing to pay for that?

he looks to be gone after this year in either scenario. so why get him to begin with?

1) There is a middle ground, where he plays reasonably well, but not enough to command a “huge” offer next year.  We would be allowed to sign him to a deal of up to $7.9 million (I think — might only be $6.3 million) which is more than the taxpayer MLE and near the full MLE.  Since few teams have cap room, he might be willing to resign for a season or two to get a bigger offer when more cap room is available and he has increased his value more by continuing to demonstrate his talent and ability to fit in the NBA.  Don’t think players aren’t aware of how Stevens helped utilize Turner into a major deal, and turned IT into a potential max player (his injury being the only thing that could prevent such an offer).

2) On the downside, if he still stinks, he’s an expiring contract that can be traded again at the deadline.  We’re actually quite short on salary filler, and an extra $5 million could go a long way if we try to swing a blockbuster.  We paid Zeller $8 million to be potential trade filler last year, so what’s $5 million?

This is a great point, and I would put Okafor in the Zeller category of players (has skill but probably shouldn't play).  The only downside is that Okafor might be a complete a$$ hat and you don't want to bring in those guys.

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #91 on: October 31, 2017, 08:33:04 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Just like Thomas Robinson, this guys will be out of the league soon.

Re: 76ers Pick Up Rookie Scale Options On Everyone But Jahlil Okafor
« Reply #92 on: October 31, 2017, 08:39:58 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I’d give the TPE for him. If nothing else he’s a tradeable contract at the deadline.

Do you feel this is true even with his option declined? Wouldn't that mean you could only trade him fro a fellow expiring?

Why so?

Well my understand was our DPE was only good for this year and we are at the salary cap. So we can only use it to take on salary this year. In my mind this meant that if we got Okafor with the DPE we could only trade him for another player that is expiring. Is that not true?

Edit: Saltlover seems to be explaining I am incorrect in this thinking, which I believe, but would be happy to hear why cause I don't understand it :)

Once you acquire a player with the exception, you can do anything else with that player that the rules permit you to do with any player.  If you acquire an expiring player via trade, you can resign him with Bird rights as a free agent (this making the acquisition last longer than a year), or you can trade him for another player who’s not on an expiring deal.  Now, if you turn around and trade the guy in a week, you can expect the NBA to accuse you of circumventing the rules because you traded for him only for the purpose of trading for someone else not eligible with the DPE.  But if you wait two months and play the acquisition a bit, they won’t say anything, because you’re not forbidden from trading the guy you got with the DPE if something better comes along.

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #93 on: October 31, 2017, 08:56:12 PM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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He's been on the market for awhile now at this point the 6ers have killed his value.

I can't imagine he's out of the rotation because he's not talented I'm going to guess he tried to get by on his talent alone and at some point just mentally checked out when it wasn't working out.

We all know sometimes top picks just washout but how many 21 year olds washout after the rookie season he had? 17.5pt 7rbs 1.2blks
ok fine

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #94 on: November 01, 2017, 01:11:25 AM »

Offline Erik

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He hasn't washed out. He can still score easily. Their complaint is that he doesn't play defense (like Kyrie didn't  ::) ) and doesn't rebound. If history is a precedent, he can fix those here.

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #95 on: November 01, 2017, 01:58:29 AM »

Offline byennie

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A big who doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense, and can't shoot with any range. He also missed 61 games over his first two seasons and isn't playing right now, so he's an injury risk.

Pass.

Can't see the forest for the trees. Good thing you aren't a GM. It's not that he Doesn't have the tools to play, he just hasn't played for the right team. He is still exactly who we knew he was when he was drafted third and people were screaming at LA for passing on him. He's a freak scorer that needs work. He's 21 years old.

You should hurry up and apply for a GM job, since you know better than every NBA GM who has refused to offer up a decent asset for Okafor, know better than Philly who won't even bother to pay him next year on a rookie deal instead letting him walk, and know better than every advanced stat created to measure actual effectiveness, in which he's arguably one of the worst players in the league.

Yeah, he'll get a couple more chances, and every 10 years we get a miracle like Hassan Whiteside, but right now his trajectory is basically Anthony Bennett. Spare us the condescension about how good *you* know he'd be outside of Philly. We all know he has physical tools or he wouldn't have gone top 3 in the draft. But, right now, he's a major bust and you can't just blame it all on Philadelphia.

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #96 on: November 01, 2017, 02:51:19 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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He's been on the market for awhile now at this point the 6ers have killed his value.

I can't imagine he's out of the rotation because he's not talented I'm going to guess he tried to get by on his talent alone and at some point just mentally checked out when it wasn't working out.

We all know sometimes top picks just washout but how many 21 year olds washout after the rookie season he had? 17.5pt 7rbs 1.2blks

Didn’t MCW have a great rookie season? Won RotY too. He’s barely getting playing time last time I saw him.

Sometimes you get talented players whose elite talent gets beat by their poor work ethic. The game passes them by. Sixers aren’t playing him for a reason, and it’s more than just he’s not a good basketball player right now.

I would rather hold the exception for someone else. I like watching Baynes get physical down low and hit that mid-range. I like seeing Theis all over the place. And of course what Horford is doing out there is great basketball, looking like an All-Star again.
CELTICS 2024

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #97 on: November 01, 2017, 07:27:32 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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QUESTION: If we were to acquire Okafor via trade using DPE.. would we be acquiring his Bird Rights or not (for a future extension)?

I could very well be wrong but I believe the Cs would receive bird rights to Okafor.

I am 100% all for trading a late first for Okafor. At that cost ( and the bust rate of most players drafted in the late 1st) why not take a game on a player who was once considered a generational big man talent talent? The Cs have the perfect combination of coaching staff, organizational stability, vet leadership and a young core to get the most out of Okafor. Not to mention that AL is possibly the big for Okafor to try to model his game after.

Mavs
Wiz
Hornet

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #98 on: November 01, 2017, 07:46:14 AM »

Offline stes

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As much as I'd like for the C's to take a flyer on Okafor, I don't want us to give up anything of value for him. I think right now his value is below a 1st round pick, there were even some reports that he might be trying to get a buyout, so we could simply wait and get him without giving up anything.

I was wondering if we could use a DPE in a 3 team trade, something like:

to BOS: Okafor
to CLE: trade exception (tax relief)
to PHI: Frye + Cle 2nd (for shedding salary)

I don't know if CLE are ready to make tax saving moves or they'd rather keep Frye's contract for some bigger trade, but this could be a nice little trade that gives us Okafor's Bird Rights, Cavs some savings and Philly a late pick. But I am not even sure if it's possible under the CBA rules, I didn't find any specific law that would prohibit it, but I could see myself being wrong here.

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #99 on: November 01, 2017, 08:14:31 AM »

Offline Moranis

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As much as I'd like for the C's to take a flyer on Okafor, I don't want us to give up anything of value for him. I think right now his value is below a 1st round pick, there were even some reports that he might be trying to get a buyout, so we could simply wait and get him without giving up anything.

I was wondering if we could use a DPE in a 3 team trade, something like:

to BOS: Okafor
to CLE: trade exception (tax relief)
to PHI: Frye + Cle 2nd (for shedding salary)

I don't know if CLE are ready to make tax saving moves or they'd rather keep Frye's contract for some bigger trade, but this could be a nice little trade that gives us Okafor's Bird Rights, Cavs some savings and Philly a late pick. But I am not even sure if it's possible under the CBA rules, I didn't find any specific law that would prohibit it, but I could see myself being wrong here.
I don't see why Cleveland wouldn't just take the flyer on Okafor themselves in that scenario.  They still save money, they get a back-up big, and get a look at him to see if he is worth keeping long term (which might make sense if James leaves and they blow it up next summer). 

I also don't see why Philly would acquire Frye.  He does nothing for them.

I'm all for acquiring Okafor, I just don't think this trade is all that plausible.  I also don't see any reason why Boston shouldn't be willing to throw in a 2nd round pick or even a late 1st (maybe make it top 25 protected or something like that and it converts to a 2nd or multiple 2nd's) and then just deal with Philly directly.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 08:40:09 AM by Moranis »
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Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #100 on: November 01, 2017, 09:09:42 AM »

Offline stes

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According to realgm the Irving trade, that shed $4,3M in Cavs salaries results in approx $27M in luxury tax savings. I imaging getting rid of $7M would lead to another substantial savings, since they have over $130M on payroll, so I could see some incentive. And the Sixers get a second rounder, which is better than a buyout. So I don’t agree that there’s no incentive for other teams involved, but I understand that it’s not much

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #101 on: November 01, 2017, 09:27:41 AM »

Offline Erik

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A big who doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense, and can't shoot with any range. He also missed 61 games over his first two seasons and isn't playing right now, so he's an injury risk.

Pass.

Can't see the forest for the trees. Good thing you aren't a GM. It's not that he Doesn't have the tools to play, he just hasn't played for the right team. He is still exactly who we knew he was when he was drafted third and people were screaming at LA for passing on him. He's a freak scorer that needs work. He's 21 years old.

You should hurry up and apply for a GM job, since you know better than every NBA GM who has refused to offer up a decent asset for Okafor, know better than Philly who won't even bother to pay him next year on a rookie deal instead letting him walk, and know better than every advanced stat created to measure actual effectiveness, in which he's arguably one of the worst players in the league.

Yeah, he'll get a couple more chances, and every 10 years we get a miracle like Hassan Whiteside, but right now his trajectory is basically Anthony Bennett. Spare us the condescension about how good *you* know he'd be outside of Philly. We all know he has physical tools or he wouldn't have gone top 3 in the draft. But, right now, he's a major bust and you can't just blame it all on Philadelphia.

Of course I can blame it all on Philly.

I think we can agree that he can score (hopefully). Where is the player development on defense? Are you telling me that someone with that kind of footwork and agility on offense can't play any defense?

Last season they claimed he needed to sit 6 weeks for an injury, they shut him down for 6 months to continue tanking.

They've bought so much into Embiid and basically ignored the kid for 2 years now so much that the relationship is severed and they refuse to play him regardless of how bad his replacements are.

His defensive strugglers are nothing new:

The biggest question marks around Okafor revolve around his play on the defensive end, where he was very inconsistent this season. He has the size, strength and length to be more than adequate if he puts his mind to it, and did show some flashes on this end of the floor from time to time, particularly as a post-defender. With that said, Okafor typically looked far too lackadaisical on this end of the floor, jogging back nonchalantly and looking downright lazy in stretches. He gives up deep post-position too often and isn't aggressive enough looking to body his man when he does receive the ball, possibly out of fear of getting in foul trouble. More concerning is how badly he struggles stepping outside of the paint in pick and roll situations, where he looks sluggish and slow-footed, showing poor awareness and being late to react on the fly. As gifted as he is offensively, he is almost just as poor on the other end of the floor. Duke was forced to play a very conservative style of defense on the pick and roll, with Okafor going way underneath screens to give himself a big enough cushion to recover and not get burned, which is certainly not ideal against the better guards he'll face in the NBA. He struggles hedging screens on the perimeter and certainly can't be asked to switch onto smaller players, as he already struggles in one on one situations against big men. Not being particularly explosive, he offers very little in the way of rim-protection, which is a concern in today's NBA game where practically every team's defensive plan revolves around having a big man in the paint who can serve as an anchor, clean up mistakes and not allow easy baskets. He's also not a very good defensive rebounder, posting just 6.5 per-40 minutes, one of the worst rates among big men in our Top-100. He looks somewhat lethargic here too, often standing and watching rather than putting a body on an opponent, and being a bit slow to react to loose balls coming off the glass. Okafor would be best suited playing next to a power forward who can defensive rebound, protect the rim, and space the floor from the 3-point line, which is as rare a player as you can find (Serge Ibaka, and…?). With that said, players in Okafor's mold who can have a half-court offense built around them thanks to an incredible wherewithal their his back to the basket are also rare and coveted specimens, although perhaps not as much in this era as they were in the past. Still, he's such a gifted offensive player that teams will certainly learn to live with his limitations and do their best to surround him with the right type of players to get the most out of him. At age 19, there is certainly time for him to work on his weaknesses, and he's already shown he can improve his conditioning and appears to be a highly coachable player as well. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jahlil-Okafor-6469/ ©DraftExpress

I blame the joke of an organization of the Sixers because they've absolutely ruined this kid's career due to lack of player development. While they were supposed to be working on his game, they were too busy working out how to lose.

I have no doubt in my mind that Danny and Brad can turn his career around because he was killing it on offense just a few weeks ago. He's not a bust.. he just has had 3 wasted years in that hellhole. So yeah, if you're a GM you look at his contract and say that it's a waste of time to trade anything of decent worth for him PLUS do 2 years of player development. But now that his price has reached rock bottom, it's time to swoop in and work our magic.

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #102 on: November 01, 2017, 09:51:54 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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In comparing Okafor to Bennett, I don't think that squares.  Bennett is a career 5 pts/4 rebs where as Okafor has career 15 pts/6 rebs.  Someone said this earlier.  Those are really good numbers for a 21 year old physical freak, not the numbers of someone who is about to wash out of the NBA.  I remember seeing him play a couple of times against the Celtics and being really impressed.  Clearly there is something wrong here that we all don't understand.

Who knows what Philly is looking for or how soon something may go down.  I can understand that the Celtics would like to use this disabled exemption thing on a player that can help them right now but that may not be so easy to do.  And even if they do find a decent vet on an expiring that they can get, how much does that really change the season?  Do we win another round in the playoffs?  Probably not unless we really catch lightning on this vet.

I would not be disappointed to see us use this on Okafor.  It matches up pretty well.  He would be competing for minutes with Semi Ojeleye and Daniel Theis and Yabusele.  I don't see the downside.  Do any of these guys really have more potential than Okafor?

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #103 on: November 01, 2017, 10:06:07 AM »

Offline Sketch5

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People complain about his rebounding and defense, but look at Kyrie. Yes he's not a lock down defender, and he does get beat, but he's playing really solid D right now. Why? Stevens and his system. He gets guys to buy into it.

I don't think Okafor will become some kind of rebounding defensive monster over night or ever if he came here, but he can improve, and he's already gotten his body in better shape like Smart did, so the effort is there.

I's still only do it on the cheap, but this could be best case for Okafor if he does want to become a legit NBA player. Playing with Horford and Baynes would do wonders for the kid. I mean who's been mentoring him in Phili? You could see from day one he didn't want to be there, and it's shown on the court. But get him with a guy like Horford, who are similar in playing style where is more foot work than athletics(Horford is a slightly better athlete), he could be come a really solid player.

He played one game this year and played 22 min had 10 and 9 and had 2 blocks with it.  I'd be fine with giving up a late first round pick to see if he can be consistent with number like that.

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #104 on: November 01, 2017, 10:14:37 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Already looking like a bust

80s-90s player that doesnt fit in todays game