Author Topic: J. Okafor - Merged Thread  (Read 16926 times)

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Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #135 on: November 01, 2017, 03:21:50 PM »

Offline Big333223

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It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
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Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #136 on: November 01, 2017, 03:25:30 PM »

Offline seancally

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It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?

Feel free to suggest a player who:

A) Fills the criteria you outline, and
B) Works under the restrictions of the DPE, and
C) Wouldn't cost the team any other noteworthy assets.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #137 on: November 01, 2017, 03:28:13 PM »

Offline Moranis

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It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
I would argue that Okafor provides a skill that no one else on the team provides though.  There isn't a single Celtic that you could consistently feed the ball to in the paint and get a basket.  And while the game has definitely gone further away from the basket, being able to score in the paint is still something a team needs every once in awhile.  Okafor can put the ball in the hoop if you get it to him in position.  He also is credible enough from the line, that he can play in crunch time (if needed) and can't just be fouled as a defensive strategy. 

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #138 on: November 01, 2017, 03:30:40 PM »

Offline seancally

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It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
I would argue that Okafor provides a skill that no one else on the team provides though.  There isn't a single Celtic that you could consistently feed the ball to in the paint and get a basket.  And while the game has definitely gone further away from the basket, being able to score in the paint is still something a team needs every once in awhile.  Okafor can put the ball in the hoop if you get it to him in position.  He also is credible enough from the line, that he can play in crunch time (if needed) and can't just be fouled as a defensive strategy.

Right - plus he will be motivated to play his tail off after basically the league has written him off and he's coming up on free agency.
"The game honors toughness." - President Stevens

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #139 on: November 01, 2017, 03:43:40 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
Because I think Jah has more untapped potential than almost anyone else out there.
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Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
« Reply #140 on: November 01, 2017, 03:53:42 PM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #141 on: November 01, 2017, 03:58:17 PM »

Offline konkmv

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In brad I trust

Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
« Reply #142 on: November 01, 2017, 04:01:10 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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If he's not bought out....what would you pay to get him?

https://www.celticsblog.com/2017/11/1/16593402/pompey-boston-celtics-are-most-likely-destination-for-jahlil-okafor-if-bought-out


I would take a chance .  But ....I d leave it up to DA to make the what is he worth call.  The kid needs some serious adult attention and guidance

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #143 on: November 01, 2017, 04:03:21 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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It seems like a lot of the pro-Jahlil posts come down to "He'll be different when he's away from the Sixers."

But just because the Sixers are a dysfunctional organization does not mean Okafor isn't also a headcase. He's an incredibly smooth offensive player who has never shown an aptitude to be good at any other aspect of basketball either in the pros or college. Where is the evidence that he'll get better at the things he's bad at if he's away from the Sixers?
The general thought is, that a player can't be that offensively talented, both with moves and skill, that he can't be taught to be at least a decent defender.  How can he have such brilliant footwork, hands, post-moves, etc. and not be able to translate that defensively?  How can have such good shooting touch down low and not be able to translate that out to deeper range?  He isn't quick and never will be, but he pretty clearly has talent, the rest can be taught.

He also isn't as bad a rebounder as he has been made out to be.  He also has shown some shot blocking ability.

When people were proposing trading a Brooklyn pick for him two years ago or far Marcus Smart I was vehemently arguing against them because of these limitations. Now that the cost will be just salary or a second round pick, I do think it is worth seeing what CBS could teach him for the Celtics. Lets not forget what he was able to do with Jordan Crawford.
This is the other thing I keep seeing. Brad Stevens being a good coach is not a reason to target Okafor. It's possible that Stevens can help Okafor grow as a player but why is that a reason for the Celtics to not target someone else, who is already better at the things the team needs and let Stevens work with that guy, instead?
I would argue that Okafor provides a skill that no one else on the team provides though.  There isn't a single Celtic that you could consistently feed the ball to in the paint and get a basket.  And while the game has definitely gone further away from the basket, being able to score in the paint is still something a team needs every once in awhile.  Okafor can put the ball in the hoop if you get it to him in position.  He also is credible enough from the line, that he can play in crunch time (if needed) and can't just be fouled as a defensive strategy.

Agree with this .  Why he is worth a low risk pick or such.   He needs adult supervision.

Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
« Reply #144 on: November 01, 2017, 04:03:53 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Seeing as it's most likely a one year rental, I don't think it'd make sense to give up any assets for him.

You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
« Reply #145 on: November 01, 2017, 04:09:00 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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The kid can get buckets in the paint .

Might come in handy

Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
« Reply #146 on: November 01, 2017, 04:11:21 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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If he's not bought out....what would you pay to get him?

https://www.celticsblog.com/2017/11/1/16593402/pompey-boston-celtics-are-most-likely-destination-for-jahlil-okafor-if-bought-out

Nothing - meaning, i wouldn't get him at any price.

While the price is not going to be high, he'd take up a roster spot.

I suppose that he'll wind up in the league somewhere, but it won't be on the Celtics.

What would he add? I don't see a reason to sign him, no matter the price.

Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
« Reply #147 on: November 01, 2017, 04:15:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Seeing as it's most likely a one year rental, I don't think it'd make sense to give up any assets for him.
why would you assume he would be a 1 year rental?

Re: J. Okafor - Merged Thread
« Reply #148 on: November 01, 2017, 04:21:39 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Two words: Michael Olowakandi. I guess adding 2.0 would be 3 words?  Anyway, former high pick, immensely talented post player, great hands and touch with the ball, and still gave up more than he got. Bounced around the league (including here) on his way out, repeatedly signed to minimum deals just in case magic happened and he became anything other than a liability. It just was not to be.

Re: Okafor wants a buyout or trade... If traded, what cost would be acceptable?
« Reply #149 on: November 01, 2017, 04:39:07 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Seeing as it's most likely a one year rental, I don't think it'd make sense to give up any assets for him.
why would you assume he would be a 1 year rental?

1) He’s on an expiring
2) If traded for, there would be limitations on the contract he could be offered next year.
3) We will be very tight/in the luxury tax next year, and keeping Smart will presumably be the first priority.  That negotiation could drag out a bit, by which time Okafor could sign elsewhere.
4) We currently have 11 players under contract for next season, potentially 2 1st rounders, and again, Smart should get first priority.  That could leave one roster spot.

There are certainly scenarios where he stays, but they require a combination of multiple events, including him playing well enough to warrant staying but not so well that he prices himself out of the limited deal that can be offered, the Lakers pick not conveying, Smart either taking the qualifying offer or leaving in free agency, and Baynes leaving in free agency.  It’s possibel he stays, but the base assumption/expectation should be that he’s a one-year rental, and presumably that’s the hang up on the Celtics trading for him, since the interest is obvious.
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