Author Topic: Trump's tax reform plan  (Read 23111 times)

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Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #315 on: December 12, 2017, 06:50:06 AM »

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Still above the line deductions for IRA and student loan interest, right?

I haven't read about whether the retirement contribution tax credit got eliminated, but assume it has.

Has anybody found a guide to what's in and out of this tax plan?  Trying to stay current on this is near impossible.

Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #316 on: December 12, 2017, 07:08:46 AM »

Offline jackpercussion

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What do we interpret as rich?

How much income would a family have to make per year before taxes?






Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #317 on: December 12, 2017, 02:00:45 PM »

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What do we interpret as rich?

How much income would a family have to make per year before taxes?

It's complicated.

It depends on where you live and what type of income you are making.

If you live in NYC or San Francisco, the cost of living is a heck of a lot higher than in some small town in rural Missouri.   Thus, what is needed to live a 'rich' lifestyle is vastly different.   A $250K income can comfortably carry the mortgage of a pretty nice McMansion in some parts of the country but can feel strained at paying for a decent single-bedroom condo in others.

And if your income comes almost exclusively from wages, (i.e., pay for work) you won't feel near as wealthy as someone making the same income from dividend/interest (earnings from wealth).
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Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #318 on: December 13, 2017, 09:47:37 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Interesting side note to the Alabama election:

With Corker against the bill, and R leadership already breaking their "no entitlement cuts" promise to Collins, losing the Alabama seat could kill the tax bill if Collins or anyone else flips. So now there's pressure to rush the bill through before Jones is seated, pressure on Alabama gov't to delay approving Jones to be seated, and pressure for the Dems to run out the clock.

Some may remember a similar scenario happened with the ACA when Martha Coakley blew what seemed like a sure win and a seat changed hands. D Senator Jim Webb refused to participate in health care votes until Scott Brown was seated, citing the will of the people. Odds that any Republicans will follow suit?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 10:09:19 AM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #319 on: December 13, 2017, 01:33:47 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Interesting side note to the Alabama election:

With Corker against the bill, and R leadership already breaking their "no entitlement cuts" promise to Collins, losing the Alabama seat could kill the tax bill if Collins or anyone else flips. So now there's pressure to rush the bill through before Jones is seated, pressure on Alabama gov't to delay approving Jones to be seated, and pressure for the Dems to run out the clock.

Some may remember a similar scenario happened with the ACA when Martha Coakley blew what seemed like a sure win and a seat changed hands. D Senator Jim Webb refused to participate in health care votes until Scott Brown was seated, citing the will of the people. Odds that any Republicans will follow suit?
Moore is already calling for a recount, so the foot-dragging has ensued.
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Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #320 on: December 13, 2017, 01:39:47 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Interesting side note to the Alabama election:

With Corker against the bill, and R leadership already breaking their "no entitlement cuts" promise to Collins, losing the Alabama seat could kill the tax bill if Collins or anyone else flips. So now there's pressure to rush the bill through before Jones is seated, pressure on Alabama gov't to delay approving Jones to be seated, and pressure for the Dems to run out the clock.

Some may remember a similar scenario happened with the ACA when Martha Coakley blew what seemed like a sure win and a seat changed hands. D Senator Jim Webb refused to participate in health care votes until Scott Brown was seated, citing the will of the people. Odds that any Republicans will follow suit?
Moore is already calling for a recount, so the foot-dragging has ensued.

Hope he realizes he's not close enough for an automatic recount & he's actually on the hook if he does demand one.

If only he could've swung those voters who wrote in Nick Saban......


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Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #321 on: December 13, 2017, 01:40:47 PM »

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Interesting side note to the Alabama election:

With Corker against the bill, and R leadership already breaking their "no entitlement cuts" promise to Collins, losing the Alabama seat could kill the tax bill if Collins or anyone else flips. So now there's pressure to rush the bill through before Jones is seated, pressure on Alabama gov't to delay approving Jones to be seated, and pressure for the Dems to run out the clock.

Some may remember a similar scenario happened with the ACA when Martha Coakley blew what seemed like a sure win and a seat changed hands. D Senator Jim Webb refused to participate in health care votes until Scott Brown was seated, citing the will of the people. Odds that any Republicans will follow suit?

The plan has always been to pass the bill before Christmas. This shouldn’t change things.


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Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #322 on: December 13, 2017, 02:30:44 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Here's a fun one:

Rubio + Mike Lee proposed an amendment to the Senate bill that would extend child care tax credits to more low-income families, mainly by making it applicable to payroll taxes. They paid for it by raising the proposed corporate rate from 20% to 20.94%, both way down from the current 35%. They were shot down because of the impact on the corporate rate.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/362902-senators-vote-down-rubio-lee-child-tax-credit-expansion


Flash forward, and the Senate-House conference are close to a compromise on the top income tax rate, which kicks in at $500k for singles and $1 million for married couples.  The top rate in the Senate bill was 38.5% compared to 39.6% in the House, so they've found a logical middle ground at...37%, and will pay for it by...setting the corporate tax rate at 21%.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/republicans-reach-compromise-tax-plan-expanding-tax-cuts-for-the-wealthy/2017/12/13/4f9ca66c-e028-11e7-bbd0-9dfb2e37492a_story.html?


Can't make this stuff up. The overtness with which they're servicing their actual constituencies is pretty striking even by DC standards.

Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #323 on: December 13, 2017, 02:48:16 PM »

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The plan has always been to pass the bill before Christmas. This shouldn’t change things.
The plan was also to elect "someone who would always vote with the party" in AL, how did that work out?
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Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #324 on: December 13, 2017, 02:48:28 PM »

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Here's a fun one:

Rubio + Mike Lee proposed an amendment to the Senate bill that would extend child care tax credits to more low-income families, mainly by making it applicable to payroll taxes. They paid for it by raising the proposed corporate rate from 20% to 20.94%, both way down from the current 35%. They were shot down because of the impact on the corporate rate.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/362902-senators-vote-down-rubio-lee-child-tax-credit-expansion


Flash forward, and the Senate-House conference are close to a compromise on the top income tax rate, which kicks in at $500k for singles and $1 million for married couples.  The top rate in the Senate bill was 38.5% compared to 39.6% in the House, so they've found a logical middle ground at...37%, and will pay for it by...setting the corporate tax rate at 21%.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/republicans-reach-compromise-tax-plan-expanding-tax-cuts-for-the-wealthy/2017/12/13/4f9ca66c-e028-11e7-bbd0-9dfb2e37492a_story.html?


Can't make this stuff up. The overtness with which they're servicing their actual constituencies is pretty striking even by DC standards.
Sadly the much larger constituencies that are the ones that actually get Republicans elected and kept in power are the poor, working, rural whites and Evangelical Christians who will be least positively effected by this money grab of the top 1%.

Between the strip down of welfare services, the destruction of healthcare for the poor and this "tax cut" that will actually hurt most poor people since it won't allow them to get more back in refunds than they put in, is going to devastate most of the Republican base. But because of the Republican, conservative, "moral" social stances, the base will keep voting Republican no matter how screwed over they get financially.

Irony of the situation, the leader of the Republican party may be the most immoral person in America.

Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #325 on: December 13, 2017, 03:46:26 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
this "tax cut" that will actually hurt most poor people since it won't allow them to get more back in refunds than they put in

Shouldn't this be the case?  When did tax time become a payout and not a way to generate funds to run the government? A refund is defined as "a repayment of a sum of money"  if you don't pay into  it then is it really a refund.   Nope, it is a handout and with our debt we can't afford it.  That being said, I think this bill is bad.   I think it is blatant corporate Welfare on a grand scale.   I don't think that that is right either.

Your right it is going to hurt people and that lost money will be directly removed from the economy.   But I think giving back to a person more than they paid in is unsustainable and not reasonable tax policy which should create revenue not grant it out.

Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #326 on: December 13, 2017, 03:54:23 PM »

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Quote
this "tax cut" that will actually hurt most poor people since it won't allow them to get more back in refunds than they put in

Shouldn't this be the case?  When did tax time become a payout and not a way to generate funds to run the government? A refund is defined as "a repayment of a sum of money"  if you don't pay into  it then is it really a refund.   Nope, it is a handout and with our debt we can't afford it.  That being said, I think this bill is bad.   I think it is blatant corporate Welfare on a grand scale.   I don't think that that is right either.

Your right it is going to hurt people and that lost money will be directly removed from the economy.   But I think giving back to a person more than they paid in is unsustainable and not reasonable tax policy which should create revenue not grant it out.


Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

The idea of a negative tax liability is ludicrous. I won't stand for that crap anymore than I will stand for corporate welfare.

Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #327 on: December 13, 2017, 04:12:00 PM »

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Your right it is going to hurt people and that lost money will be directly removed from the economy.   But I think giving back to a person more than they paid in is unsustainable and not reasonable tax policy which should create revenue not grant it out.
In this particular case, it's as sustainable as any other government spending program.
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Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #328 on: December 13, 2017, 04:17:34 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Quote
this "tax cut" that will actually hurt most poor people since it won't allow them to get more back in refunds than they put in

Shouldn't this be the case?  When did tax time become a payout and not a way to generate funds to run the government? A refund is defined as "a repayment of a sum of money"  if you don't pay into  it then is it really a refund.   Nope, it is a handout and with our debt we can't afford it.  That being said, I think this bill is bad.   I think it is blatant corporate Welfare on a grand scale.   I don't think that that is right either.

Your right it is going to hurt people and that lost money will be directly removed from the economy.   But I think giving back to a person more than they paid in is unsustainable and not reasonable tax policy which should create revenue not grant it out.


Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

The idea of a negative tax liability is ludicrous. I won't stand for that crap anymore than I will stand for corporate welfare.
I would much rather give the extreme poor some extra money through those type of returns than give corporations a 14% tax cut, 1% higher than proposed because they have to give an extra cut to those making over $500k($1 million as a couple).

Re: Trump's tax reform plan
« Reply #329 on: December 13, 2017, 04:38:05 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Quote
this "tax cut" that will actually hurt most poor people since it won't allow them to get more back in refunds than they put in

Shouldn't this be the case?  When did tax time become a payout and not a way to generate funds to run the government? A refund is defined as "a repayment of a sum of money"  if you don't pay into  it then is it really a refund.   Nope, it is a handout and with our debt we can't afford it.  That being said, I think this bill is bad.   I think it is blatant corporate Welfare on a grand scale.   I don't think that that is right either.

Your right it is going to hurt people and that lost money will be directly removed from the economy.   But I think giving back to a person more than they paid in is unsustainable and not reasonable tax policy which should create revenue not grant it out.


Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

The idea of a negative tax liability is ludicrous. I won't stand for that crap anymore than I will stand for corporate welfare.
I would much rather give the extreme poor some extra money through those type of returns than give corporations a 14% tax cut, 1% higher than proposed because they have to give an extra cut to those making over $500k($1 million as a couple).

It's not negative tax liability that Rubio/Lee proposed anyway, it's just applying the breaks to their payroll tax liability instead of just income. Unless we're talking about different things.