Author Topic: Trump's tax reform plan  (Read 12637 times)

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Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2017, 08:45:35 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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So top 1% gets main tax break.  Medicare/Medicaid take huge hit and bonus...(wait for it)
Corporations get more than half of tax rate cut.

Good thing trickle down economics work right...? :'(

Yeah anyone who believes trickle down economics work, I have some magic beans to sell.

They keep saying the corporations get bigger tax cuts they will produce jobs, but question is, were is the extra demand for their products going to come from, since it looks like the bulk of the country going to get hosed in one way or an other.

This is why you're seeing cuts to services that they are saying aren't needed, like education. They want to change middle class and low income to low class and dirt @$$ poor.

That and cutting healthcare programs that help the lower class could cost my wife her job were she's a Pt that works for a non profit that provides mainly for the lower class.
Sad thing is a lot of the base voters think the tax reform will benefit them, the working class.  The health care cuts will affect EVERYONES parents, republican, democratic and all those other groups.

Yeah, it sucks that people don't get this. Some get excited about a $800 decrease in their taxes, and that makes them happy enough to tolerate someone else (Trump, for example) getting a 5,000,000 decrease in their taxes...yet they don't realize that 5,000,000 dollar tax break Trump gets is 5,000,000 less in education, medical costs, etc, that would be shared among people in said person's income bracket, and would dwarf the 800 in tax savings.

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2017, 08:51:11 PM »

Offline More Banners

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So top 1% gets main tax break.  Medicare/Medicaid take huge hit and bonus...(wait for it)
Corporations get more than half of tax rate cut.

Good thing trickle down economics work right...? :'(

Yeah anyone who believes trickle down economics work, I have some magic beans to sell.

They keep saying the corporations get bigger tax cuts they will produce jobs, but question is, were is the extra demand for their products going to come from, since it looks like the bulk of the country going to get hosed in one way or an other.

This is why you're seeing cuts to services that they are saying aren't needed, like education. They want to change middle class and low income to low class and dirt @$$ poor.

That and cutting healthcare programs that help the lower class could cost my wife her job were she's a Pt that works for a non profit that provides mainly for the lower class.
Sad thing is a lot of the base voters think the tax reform will benefit them, the working class.  The health care cuts will affect EVERYONES parents, republican, democratic and all those other groups.

Yeah, it sucks that people don't get this. Some get excited about a $800 decrease in their taxes, and that makes them happy enough to tolerate someone else (Trump, for example) getting a 5,000,000 decrease in their taxes...yet they don't realize that 5,000,000 dollar tax break Trump gets is 5,000,000 less in education, medical costs, etc, that would be shared among people in said person's income bracket, and would dwarf the 800 in tax savings.

That's the thing with buying off the poor/working poor. They're cheap.

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2017, 09:06:48 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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So top 1% gets main tax break.  Medicare/Medicaid take huge hit and bonus...(wait for it)
Corporations get more than half of tax rate cut.

Good thing trickle down economics work right...? :'(

Yeah anyone who believes trickle down economics work, I have some magic beans to sell.

They keep saying the corporations get bigger tax cuts they will produce jobs, but question is, were is the extra demand for their products going to come from, since it looks like the bulk of the country going to get hosed in one way or an other.

This is why you're seeing cuts to services that they are saying aren't needed, like education. They want to change middle class and low income to low class and dirt @$$ poor.

That and cutting healthcare programs that help the lower class could cost my wife her job were she's a Pt that works for a non profit that provides mainly for the lower class.
Sad thing is a lot of the base voters think the tax reform will benefit them, the working class.  The health care cuts will affect EVERYONES parents, republican, democratic and all those other groups.

Yeah, it sucks that people don't get this. Some get excited about a $800 decrease in their taxes, and that makes them happy enough to tolerate someone else (Trump, for example) getting a 5,000,000 decrease in their taxes...yet they don't realize that 5,000,000 dollar tax break Trump gets is 5,000,000 less in education, medical costs, etc, that would be shared among people in said person's income bracket, and would dwarf the 800 in tax savings.

That's the thing with buying off the poor/working poor. They're cheap.

What sucks is that even though rich people would "benefit" from such a tax break, ultimately it leads to even less social mobility (with the US already behind europe, despite the whole "american dream" rhetoric), and it is simply less enjoyable to live in a nation with a defacto caste system; people are more depressed, there's more crime, it's harder to even perfrorm those "good" jobs like medicine, law, etc, because not enough people ultimately will be able to afford it and the social infrastructure won't be there...

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2017, 09:10:08 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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So top 1% gets main tax break.  Medicare/Medicaid take huge hit and bonus...(wait for it)
Corporations get more than half of tax rate cut.

Good thing trickle down economics work right...? :'(

I'd say the biggest tax break here would be the doubling of the standard deduction. That would be huge for lower income individuals and families. A way bigger deal than whatever tax savings the 1% would see by the elimination of the estate tax, or lowering of corporate tax rates (which really would just level the playing field for small businesses more than anything - most major corporations pay way less than what small business end up paying due to loopholes only the largest companies can take advantage of).

Complaining about these proposals is basically nothing more than typical partisan BS.

Yeah, no.  The biggest tax break would either be eliminating the AMT or the estate tax.
Especially since the standard deduction "doubling" eliminates the personal deduction, which means its in fact merely a 15% increase in the deduction people can take if they don't itemize.
this ambiguity and the unknown of the changes to itemized deductions really worries me.  I've heard on several occasions the elimination of the deduction for mortgage interest, taxes paid to other government agencies (State and City taxes) as well as a possible cap on deducting charitible contributions.

I anticipate nothing good would come from this proposal for middle and lower class taxpayers should it be passed. 

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2017, 09:25:51 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I'd say the biggest tax break here would be the doubling of the standard deduction. That would be huge for lower income individuals and families

I would like to see people who don't pay taxes not get refunds anymore.  I doubt that happens though.   But how can a person get more back than they pay into the system.   I am pretty sure that is not how taxes are meant to be.  If you did not pay the government should not owe you.   

I would also like to see the small businesses get the same rate as the corporations.

I honestly think a lot of folks taxes are going to go up with this plan.   I think mine will go up and I am middle class on the fringe of upper middle class where I live.  Taking away the property tax deduction is going to hammer a lot of states which happen to be liberal.  Especially the Northeast.

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2017, 09:31:39 PM »

Offline More Banners

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So top 1% gets main tax break.  Medicare/Medicaid take huge hit and bonus...(wait for it)
Corporations get more than half of tax rate cut.

Good thing trickle down economics work right...? :'(

Yeah anyone who believes trickle down economics work, I have some magic beans to sell.

They keep saying the corporations get bigger tax cuts they will produce jobs, but question is, were is the extra demand for their products going to come from, since it looks like the bulk of the country going to get hosed in one way or an other.

This is why you're seeing cuts to services that they are saying aren't needed, like education. They want to change middle class and low income to low class and dirt @$$ poor.

That and cutting healthcare programs that help the lower class could cost my wife her job were she's a Pt that works for a non profit that provides mainly for the lower class.
Sad thing is a lot of the base voters think the tax reform will benefit them, the working class.  The health care cuts will affect EVERYONES parents, republican, democratic and all those other groups.

Yeah, it sucks that people don't get this. Some get excited about a $800 decrease in their taxes, and that makes them happy enough to tolerate someone else (Trump, for example) getting a 5,000,000 decrease in their taxes...yet they don't realize that 5,000,000 dollar tax break Trump gets is 5,000,000 less in education, medical costs, etc, that would be shared among people in said person's income bracket, and would dwarf the 800 in tax savings.

That's the thing with buying off the poor/working poor. They're cheap.

What sucks is that even though rich people would "benefit" from such a tax break, ultimately it leads to even less social mobility (with the US already behind europe, despite the whole "american dream" rhetoric), and it is simply less enjoyable to live in a nation with a defacto caste system; people are more depressed, there's more crime, it's harder to even perfrorm those "good" jobs like medicine, law, etc, because not enough people ultimately will be able to afford it and the social infrastructure won't be there...

True. Wide range of pay for physicians.

On mobility:  Could always borrow $100K plus in student loans for med school...and hope and pray you graduate.

...but the lower classes rarely even aspire to such positions. More likely to go to community college for nursing than go pre-med. More likely to major in criminal justice than law, etc.  Consequently, mobility comes in small steps, e.g. Poor to working class, but often with the student loan millstone to drag around for 10-20 years. The lower classes, for a variety of likely reasons, just don't see a path to what many consider middle class, e.g. The professions (medicine, law, CPA). Actually, the poorer folk think those ARE the rich. Just no concept of the kind of wealth that would, for example, be subject to an estate tax.

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2017, 05:48:34 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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This plan looks very bad for someone in the upper middle class that has never itemized.   The loss of exemptions is pretty harsh.   I think I calculated that I will have to put aside 1,100 aside a month to meet my new taxes.   I know all the details are not out, and it is not a finished product.   But I laced into my Congressman pretty hard today with a letter.

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2017, 06:13:46 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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It's a bad tax plan in so many ways. Trump had some decent ideas to improve some of our economics but clearly that was campaign talk.
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Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2017, 06:19:48 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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This plan looks very bad for someone in the upper middle class that has never itemized.   The loss of exemptions is pretty harsh.   I think I calculated that I will have to put aside 1,100 aside a month to meet my new taxes.   I know all the details are not out, and it is not a finished product.   But I laced into my Congressman pretty hard today with a letter.

 Help me understand.  What is considered "upper-middle class" and how does the plan hurt those who haven't itemized?  I am not doubting you -- just trying to see how the plan effects me as what you describe sounds like me -- and paying out $13K more in taxes would hurt a lot.

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2017, 07:33:19 PM »

Offline saltlover

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This plan looks very bad for someone in the upper middle class that has never itemized.   The loss of exemptions is pretty harsh.   I think I calculated that I will have to put aside 1,100 aside a month to meet my new taxes.   I know all the details are not out, and it is not a finished product.   But I laced into my Congressman pretty hard today with a letter.

 Help me understand.  What is considered "upper-middle class" and how does the plan hurt those who haven't itemized?  I am not doubting you -- just trying to see how the plan effects me as what you describe sounds like me -- and paying out $13K more in taxes would hurt a lot.

Were at the 75th percentile for our county, so Id say were upper-middle class.  We live in a wealthy county, but cost of living is very high ($3k/month mortgage for 1400 sq-ft house, $2k/month for cheaper than average childcare, for example).  Wed have paid $4k more in federal taxes last year based on this proposal, about 2% of our pretax income.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 07:44:43 PM by saltlover »

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2017, 07:35:58 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Double post due to connection time out, apologies.

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2017, 07:47:49 PM »

Offline More Banners

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This plan looks very bad for someone in the upper middle class that has never itemized.   The loss of exemptions is pretty harsh.   I think I calculated that I will have to put aside 1,100 aside a month to meet my new taxes.   I know all the details are not out, and it is not a finished product.   But I laced into my Congressman pretty hard today with a letter.

 Help me understand.  What is considered "upper-middle class" and how does the plan hurt those who haven't itemized?  I am not doubting you -- just trying to see how the plan effects me as what you describe sounds like me -- and paying out $13K more in taxes would hurt a lot.

Were at the 75th percentile for our county, so Id say were upper-middle class.  We live in a wealthy county, but cost of living is very high ($3k/month mortgage for 1400 sq-ft house, $2k/month for cheaper than average childcare, for example).  Wed have paid $4k more in federal taxes last year based on this proposal, about 2% of our pretax income.

And the squeeze is on... that's gotta smart a bit.

But good for you.

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2017, 04:32:54 PM »

Offline heyvik

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I honestly don't see how anyone other than millionaires can support this bill. Proof is that CEO will NOT reward workers, but they will reward investors......

Republicans Insist Tax Cuts Will Benefit Workers, But CEOs Have Other Plans
https://www.yahoo.com/news/republicans-insist-tax-cuts-benefit-180754689.html


Where do you stand on this topic?

Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2017, 04:58:04 PM »

Online Ed Hollison

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These things are so complex that you need non-partisan groups to do the math for you.

Here's the distributional effects (i.e. who gets a tax cut over time) from the Joint Committee on Taxation:

https://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=5044

From the Congressional Budget Office:

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/reconciliationrecommendationssfc.pdf

From the Tax Policy Center:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/feature/analysis-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act

Each of these three organizations tell us that the bulk of the tax cuts will go to the wealthy, and specifically the  very wealthy. There is some evidence that poor and middle class will get a tax cut in the early years, but these will essentially vanish by 2025. In fact, some poor and middle class people's taxes will go up years from now, not down. Meanwhile, each organization forecasts the proposed bill to add $1 trillion or more to the national debt.

Otherwise it's fantastic.

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Re: Trumps tax reform plan
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2017, 04:59:03 PM »

Online Ed Hollison

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Here's a survey of top economists that shows that they generally think it's a bad idea:

http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/tax-reform-2

"A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love."

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