How about a little Horford Appreciation?

[jbpats]

13 points, 13 boards and 5 dimes.. more importantly completely shut down Kristaps defensively, a player who was averaging 31 points heading into the game last night.

I feel like people are hard on Horford around here, so I think it's nice to point out the things he does that go beyond the box score once in a while.

[slamtheking]

Really should be "how about a LOT of Horford appreciation"?  he does all the little things (and big things) you need on a winning team

[chiken Green]

Guy has always been a winner.. He is definitely the glue.. Love watching him.

[timpiker]

Yes Horford is the glue and he does so many things that winning teams need.  He's not flashy and doesn't put up 20 pts every night so some don't appreciate him.  I sure as hell do.

[seancally]

Heard somewhere, podcast maybe, that essentially Horford gets better / more effective as his role gets smaller. In other words... his "superstar skill" is like being a role player. It's a weird concept to try to communicate, but basically, if he's a primary offensive option, he won't be what you need. If he's an afterthought on offense, it's like he's a superstar.

I've though about how, if you want a winning team, you need your superstar players of course, and role players who know their roles. But you also need to maximize the number of guys you have who will just do the right thing every time, from making a crisp pass to switching on D and so on. Horford does the right thing all the time - it's really nothing in isolation, but in aggregate that stuff makes a big difference.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

But we should trade him for Vucevic, I thought ...

[tarheelsxxiii]

Thanks for all you do, Al.

[jambr380]

Heard somewhere, podcast maybe, that essentially Horford gets better / more effective as his role gets smaller. In other words... his "superstar skill" is like being a role player. It's a weird concept to try to communicate, but basically, if he's a primary offensive option, he won't be what you need. If he's an afterthought on offense, it's like he's a superstar.

I've though about how, if you want a winning team, you need your superstar players of course, and role players who know their roles. But you also need to maximize the number of guys you have who will just do the right thing every time, from making a crisp pass to switching on D and so on. Horford does the right thing all the time - it's really nothing in isolation, but in aggregate that stuff makes a big difference.

I believe this is the definition of 'double-edged sword.' Of course we all love what Horford does to make the offense and defense click, but that contract is so exorbitant that it will be hard to add other star (or re-sign our own) players if he is already making superstar money. Even the ultimate glue guys make nowhere near what he does.

I was ecstatic when we signed Horford and am still very happy to have him on our team. He is a perfect mentor for our young players, does all the right things on and off the court, but all of us agree that Brown and Tatum need to take the leap for this team to have a chance at contending. That shouldn't necessarily be the case when you have three legit max level players.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Heard somewhere, podcast maybe, that essentially Horford gets better / more effective as his role gets smaller. In other words... his "superstar skill" is like being a role player. It's a weird concept to try to communicate, but basically, if he's a primary offensive option, he won't be what you need. If he's an afterthought on offense, it's like he's a superstar.

I've though about how, if you want a winning team, you need your superstar players of course, and role players who know their roles. But you also need to maximize the number of guys you have who will just do the right thing every time, from making a crisp pass to switching on D and so on. Horford does the right thing all the time - it's really nothing in isolation, but in aggregate that stuff makes a big difference.

I believe this is the definition of 'double-edged sword.' Of course we all love what Horford does to make the offense and defense click, but that contract is so exorbitant that it will be hard to add other star (or re-sign our own) players if he is already making superstar money. Even the ultimate glue guys make nowhere near what he does.

I was ecstatic when we signed Horford and am still very happy to have him on our team. He is a perfect mentor for our young players, does all the right things on and off the court, but all of us agree that Brown and Tatum need to take the leap for this team to have a chance at contending. That shouldn't necessarily be the case when you have three legit max level players.

Horford is similar to Draymond Green. They are both superstars in their ability to play with other stars and do all the little things really well.

For instance, if Draymond Green was not running pick-and-rolls with Curry, Durant, and Thompson, then he would add very little offensively. He is elite in his ability to take advantage of quick pick-and-rolls with his vision, but he would not have those opportunities if it weren't for Curry, Thompson, and Durant.

If you really break down his game, he is bad in every other way offensively. He is not great at creating his own shot or driving, unless he is attacking closeouts on the pass. He is not a good post up guy. He is not a good outside shooter.

Of course, he would likely still be a great defensive player if he weren't next to Curry, but he might not have as much confidence or nasty on that side of the ball without his fit offensively.

In that sense, I think Horford is similar. He is a better shooter than Green, both from mid-range and three. He is a better post up player. I think he is a better passer, although Green has better stats. But Green is a legit defensive MVP. Horford is good defensivley, but not even close to that.

[Who]

He makes everyone else better.

Horford helps bring individuals together and makes them play as a team.

Horford is the one who makes Stevens' system work. It needs a passing big man in that high post to run the offense through. Olynyk did it well. Sully did it well. Things (ball movement, teamwork) went downhill fast whenever CBS did not have a passing big (Zeller, Bass) on the floor to facilitate his offense. Beyond the passing, Horford helps his teammates with his jump-shooting and floor spacing ability. He pulls shot blockers out of the paint which enables his teammates to attack the paint easier. His screens are important too. Frees his teammates. Gives them more space to work with. That is what Horford does.

He enables his teammates to be their best selves. Not 65% of their best or 80-90% of their best. But 100% of their best self on the basketball court. He gives them more time and space (opportunities). This raises their number of opportunities to attack and efficiency in attacking because they get the ball in better situations to attack.

Then there is the defense. He is so versatile on defense because of his speed, agility, size and strength. Horford is big enough and strong enough to defend players bigger than him in the post. He has the footspeed and defensive nous to defend face up bigs. To stay in front of them and stop them driving to the hoop while staying in position to contest shots (versus staying a few feet further back from them to defend the hoop, giving them shot). Horford has the quickness on defensive rotations to close out on shooters. He makes timely defensive rotations. Especially on the interior. He does a solid job protecting the basket with his positioning, timing and length. His speed and agility helps him in transition defense and most importantly in PnR defense. He switches very well onto smaller players for a center. Horford is a plus defender in all of these individual areas to help his team. To avoid forcing his teammates to cover him in any area. While being able to help cover them in team defense areas (PnR, transition, switches, interior rotations, shot blocking, closing out on perimeter shooters).

That is what Horford does = he makes everyone else better. He enables them to get the most out of their own talents.

[seancally]

Heard somewhere, podcast maybe, that essentially Horford gets better / more effective as his role gets smaller. In other words... his "superstar skill" is like being a role player. It's a weird concept to try to communicate, but basically, if he's a primary offensive option, he won't be what you need. If he's an afterthought on offense, it's like he's a superstar.

I've though about how, if you want a winning team, you need your superstar players of course, and role players who know their roles. But you also need to maximize the number of guys you have who will just do the right thing every time, from making a crisp pass to switching on D and so on. Horford does the right thing all the time - it's really nothing in isolation, but in aggregate that stuff makes a big difference.

I believe this is the definition of 'double-edged sword.' Of course we all love what Horford does to make the offense and defense click, but that contract is so exorbitant that it will be hard to add other star (or re-sign our own) players if he is already making superstar money. Even the ultimate glue guys make nowhere near what he does.

I was ecstatic when we signed Horford and am still very happy to have him on our team. He is a perfect mentor for our young players, does all the right things on and off the court, but all of us agree that Brown and Tatum need to take the leap for this team to have a chance at contending. That shouldn't necessarily be the case when you have three legit max level players.

Horford is similar to Draymond Green. They are both superstars in their ability to play with other stars and do all the little things really well.

For instance, if Draymond Green was not running pick-and-rolls with Curry, Durant, and Thompson, then he would add very little offensively. He is elite in his ability to take advantage of quick pick-and-rolls with his vision, but he would not have those opportunities if it weren't for Curry, Thompson, and Durant.

If you really break down his game, he is bad in every other way offensively. He is not great at creating his own shot or driving, unless he is attacking closeouts on the pass. He is not a good post up guy. He is not a good outside shooter.

Of course, he would likely still be a great defensive player if he weren't next to Curry, but he might not have as much confidence or nasty on that side of the ball without his fit offensively.

In that sense, I think Horford is similar. He is a better shooter than Green, both from mid-range and three. He is a better post up player. I think he is a better passer, although Green has better stats. But Green is a legit defensive MVP. Horford is good defensivley, but not even close to that.

I would also add that signing Horford to a max deal was a no-brainer. You don't offer him the max, he probably doesn't come to Boston. Then what? We'd still be talking about, can Boston sign free agents. Plus that was money we had to throw somewhere.

Also, when jambr380 says, "even the ultimate glue guys make nowhere near what he does..." Horford IS the ultimate glue guy. I think he's a better role player than anyone in the league.

In an NBA where players get offered ridiculous contracts all the time, you need to spend that money on a guy like Al. I don't think it's a double-edge sword - I think it's that Al Horford is the rare excellent, max-level guy (albeit at the tale of his prime) who is elite in categories that don't jump off the page and are therefore difficult to quantify.

[kozlodoev]

I appreciate what Horford brings to this team...

... still probably not worthy of a max contract though

[seancally]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.celticslife.com/2017/06/al-horford-proved-his-worth-in.html

[jbpats]

I appreciate what Horford brings to this team...

... still probably not worthy of a max contract though

There are 37 players in the NBA who make over 20 mil dollars per season. Horford salary is currently 11th highest at $27 mil. Based on my rankings there are 14 players on that list who are clearly better and more deserving than Horford, 5 who I say are equivalent talent wise and 17 who are no way better than he. By this logic I would say his contract is fair in todays NBA.

Stephen Curry, PG   better
LeBron James, SF   better
Paul Millsap, PF   equal
Gordon Hayward, SF   better
Blake Griffin, PF   better
Kyle Lowry, PG   equal
Mike Conley, PG   equal
Russell Westbrook, PG   better
James Harden, SG   better
DeMar DeRozan, SG   better
Al Horford, C   
Carmelo Anthony, SF   worse
Damian Lillard, PG   better
Jrue Holiday, PG   worse
Kevin Durant, SF   better
Otto Porter Jr., SF   worse
Chris Paul, PG   equal
CJ McCollum, SG   worse
Bradley Beal, SG   worse
Anthony Davis, PF   better
Dwight Howard, C   worse
Chandler Parsons, SF   worse
Harrison Barnes, SF   worse
JJ Redick, SG   worse
Brook Lopez, C   worse
Marc Gasol, C   better
DeAndre Jordan, C   better
Kevin Love, PF   equal
Steven Adams, C   worse
Giannis Antetokounmpo, SF   better
Nicolas Batum, SG   worse
Rudy Gobert, C   better
LaMarcus Aldridge, PF   worse
Victor Oladipo, SG   worse
Danilo Gallinari, SF   worse
Serge Ibaka, PF   worse
George Hill, PG   worse

[Big333223]

Great game last night. Great defense, he fought for tough rebounds, and he found guys for easy buckets.

He's the embodiment of the "makes everyone better" cliche.

He also seems like a nice guy.

And he's handsome.