Author Topic: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel  (Read 1557 times)

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Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2017, 11:23:32 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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I find it hard to believe that a hometown guy would up and leave. This is the same guy that turned down  $11M per for less per year. So if he doesn't resign what have you lost?

There are restrictions on who you can use the DPE on. No guys that have multi year deals...but pending FAs you can trade for.

All I'm saying is we can't lose 25ppg and not feel it at somw point. Since we cant make up the points we can make up the defense.
Yeah, I think Noel would be a great pick up.
He improves our team for the year.
If signs elsewhere next year so be it, what did we lose?
If he somehow decides to accept the full MLE from us next year then all the better.

The assets that we traded for him. It would be one thing if we got him for free, but we'd need to give up assets (picks/young guys) for him. A one year rental of Nerlens Noel isn't worth that

Not to mention that he has the ability to veto any trade, and there's no way he agrees to a trade where he ends up on a team that can't pay him big money (especially one where he would have a smaller role)

Why? he took the QO to get a bigger payday next year.
I think he's got his bags packed already.

Noel brings it on d. He's a stopgap but that's exactly what we need.
Allows Morrris to play more 3, which helps keep Tatum from burning up before the all star game.
Also helps preserve horford, so maybe he has more juice once he, Haward, and Irving finally make there run.

If the price is the DPE and a late first/couple of seconds I'd gladly pay for the year rental.

The Mavs having his Bird rights will help him get a bigger pay day next year, because his other potential suitors will have to outbid a team that can go over the cap to keep him.  Furthermore, the Mavs would be able to facilitate a sign-and-trade with a team that's over the cap.  None of that is possible if he's traded this year, which would lower his earnings potential.  This is why he's given veto power, and why he would use it.

Maybe he'll wind up with the Mavs, maybe somewhere else.  But he's got a better chance to earn more as long as those Bird rights exist.
Do you think he's a max player?

I don't.

But I agree The mavs betting they can sign or get better value with a s&t, is a roadblock.

He doesn't have to be a max player for it to make sense for him to reject a deal -- just someone who'll make more than the MLE.
I'm sorry I don't get it.
Yes, the most we can offer him is the mle, but he can sign anywhere next year at whatever the high bidder can offer.

How is playing out the year in Boston going to change that?
Sure the mavs could offer more years but unless hits a max dollars bidding war the extra years don't really matter.

Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2017, 11:38:30 PM »

Online saltlover

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I find it hard to believe that a hometown guy would up and leave. This is the same guy that turned down  $11M per for less per year. So if he doesn't resign what have you lost?

There are restrictions on who you can use the DPE on. No guys that have multi year deals...but pending FAs you can trade for.

All I'm saying is we can't lose 25ppg and not feel it at somw point. Since we cant make up the points we can make up the defense.
Yeah, I think Noel would be a great pick up.
He improves our team for the year.
If signs elsewhere next year so be it, what did we lose?
If he somehow decides to accept the full MLE from us next year then all the better.

The assets that we traded for him. It would be one thing if we got him for free, but we'd need to give up assets (picks/young guys) for him. A one year rental of Nerlens Noel isn't worth that

Not to mention that he has the ability to veto any trade, and there's no way he agrees to a trade where he ends up on a team that can't pay him big money (especially one where he would have a smaller role)

Why? he took the QO to get a bigger payday next year.
I think he's got his bags packed already.

Noel brings it on d. He's a stopgap but that's exactly what we need.
Allows Morrris to play more 3, which helps keep Tatum from burning up before the all star game.
Also helps preserve horford, so maybe he has more juice once he, Haward, and Irving finally make there run.

If the price is the DPE and a late first/couple of seconds I'd gladly pay for the year rental.

The Mavs having his Bird rights will help him get a bigger pay day next year, because his other potential suitors will have to outbid a team that can go over the cap to keep him.  Furthermore, the Mavs would be able to facilitate a sign-and-trade with a team that's over the cap.  None of that is possible if he's traded this year, which would lower his earnings potential.  This is why he's given veto power, and why he would use it.

Maybe he'll wind up with the Mavs, maybe somewhere else.  But he's got a better chance to earn more as long as those Bird rights exist.
Do you think he's a max player?

I don't.

But I agree The mavs betting they can sign or get better value with a s&t, is a roadblock.

He doesn't have to be a max player for it to make sense for him to reject a deal -- just someone who'll make more than the MLE.
I'm sorry I don't get it.
Yes, the most we can offer him is the mle, but he can sign anywhere next year at whatever the high bidder can offer.

How is playing out the year in Boston going to change that?
Sure the mavs could offer more years but unless hits a max dollars bidding war the extra years don't really matter.

Contracts (theoretically) should be determined by demand.  In other words, the more teams out there who can offer you a certain amount of money, the more likely you are to get it from someone.  If he is not traded Noel has the following potential suitors:

5-7 teams with substantial cap room (doesn't have to be max)
~20 teams for the non-taxpayer MLE
3-5 team for the taxpayer MLE
Mavs (who can go over the cap for him)

Furthermore, those 20+ teams at the MLE level would be allowed to work out a sign-ant-trade and thus spend more than the MLE.

If he's traded to the Celtics, it'll look like:

5-7 teams with substantial cap room (doesn't have to be max)
~20 teams for the non-taxpayer MLE
3-5 team for the taxpayer MLE

Sign-and-trade is out.  That additional team that can go over the cap for him is out.  That's going to hurt demand, and ultimately, his salary.  He's not giving that up.  And that's not to say he's going to get what he wants -- I frankly think his agent has oversold Nerlens on himself -- but Bird rights increases his earnings potential, and is not worth waving.

Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2017, 11:48:11 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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I find it hard to believe that a hometown guy would up and leave. This is the same guy that turned down  $11M per for less per year. So if he doesn't resign what have you lost?

There are restrictions on who you can use the DPE on. No guys that have multi year deals...but pending FAs you can trade for.

All I'm saying is we can't lose 25ppg and not feel it at somw point. Since we cant make up the points we can make up the defense.
Yeah, I think Noel would be a great pick up.
He improves our team for the year.
If signs elsewhere next year so be it, what did we lose?
If he somehow decides to accept the full MLE from us next year then all the better.

The assets that we traded for him. It would be one thing if we got him for free, but we'd need to give up assets (picks/young guys) for him. A one year rental of Nerlens Noel isn't worth that

Not to mention that he has the ability to veto any trade, and there's no way he agrees to a trade where he ends up on a team that can't pay him big money (especially one where he would have a smaller role)

Why? he took the QO to get a bigger payday next year.
I think he's got his bags packed already.

Noel brings it on d. He's a stopgap but that's exactly what we need.
Allows Morrris to play more 3, which helps keep Tatum from burning up before the all star game.
Also helps preserve horford, so maybe he has more juice once he, Haward, and Irving finally make there run.

If the price is the DPE and a late first/couple of seconds I'd gladly pay for the year rental.

The Mavs having his Bird rights will help him get a bigger pay day next year, because his other potential suitors will have to outbid a team that can go over the cap to keep him.  Furthermore, the Mavs would be able to facilitate a sign-and-trade with a team that's over the cap.  None of that is possible if he's traded this year, which would lower his earnings potential.  This is why he's given veto power, and why he would use it.

Maybe he'll wind up with the Mavs, maybe somewhere else.  But he's got a better chance to earn more as long as those Bird rights exist.
Do you think he's a max player?

I don't.

But I agree The mavs betting they can sign or get better value with a s&t, is a roadblock.

He doesn't have to be a max player for it to make sense for him to reject a deal -- just someone who'll make more than the MLE.
I'm sorry I don't get it.
Yes, the most we can offer him is the mle, but he can sign anywhere next year at whatever the high bidder can offer.

How is playing out the year in Boston going to change that?
Sure the mavs could offer more years but unless hits a max dollars bidding war the extra years don't really matter.

Contracts (theoretically) should be determined by demand.  In other words, the more teams out there who can offer you a certain amount of money, the more likely you are to get it from someone.  If he is not traded Noel has the following potential suitors:

5-7 teams with substantial cap room (doesn't have to be max)
~20 teams for the non-taxpayer MLE
3-5 team for the taxpayer MLE
Mavs (who can go over the cap for him)

Furthermore, those 20+ teams at the MLE level would be allowed to work out a sign-ant-trade and thus spend more than the MLE.

If he's traded to the Celtics, it'll look like:

5-7 teams with substantial cap room (doesn't have to be max)
~20 teams for the non-taxpayer MLE
3-5 team for the taxpayer MLE

Sign-and-trade is out.  That additional team that can go over the cap for him is out.  That's going to hurt demand, and ultimately, his salary.  He's not giving that up.  And that's not to say he's going to get what he wants -- I frankly think his agent has oversold Nerlens on himself -- but Bird rights increases his earnings potential, and is not worth waving.

Got it


Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2017, 03:15:25 AM »

Offline johnk.grooms

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We should use Morris and a late first or two for him if he'd agree to it. That would allow us to slide horford to pf which is a more natural position for him when Merle says plays. It would also allow us to use the trade exception a a 1-2 2-3 combo player

Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2017, 10:10:16 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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We should use Morris and a late first or two for him if he'd agree to it. That would allow us to slide horford to pf which is a more natural position for him when Merle says plays. It would also allow us to use the trade exception a a 1-2 2-3 combo player


Please explain what you are saying. Is Merle Nerlens? Are you saying Nerlens is a 1-2 or a 2-3?



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Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2017, 10:49:13 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The Mavs are terrible, but they aren't trading Noel.  I wouldn't mind McRoberts though assuming he is back and healthy relatively soon.  Maybe Dallas will part with him for like a 2nd rounder or something and we can fit him in the DPE (if we get it). 
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Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2017, 12:52:33 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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The Mavs are terrible, but they aren't trading Noel.  I wouldn't mind McRoberts though assuming he is back and healthy relatively soon.  Maybe Dallas will part with him for like a 2nd rounder or something and we can fit him in the DPE (if we get it).

Well he fits the DPE with salary and contract. I am just not sure if he moves the needle. I guess I would give him a shot. He is 6'10" and can pass and shoot some. I would take him for a 2nd round pick.


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Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2017, 01:00:40 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The Mavs are terrible, but they aren't trading Noel.  I wouldn't mind McRoberts though assuming he is back and healthy relatively soon.  Maybe Dallas will part with him for like a 2nd rounder or something and we can fit him in the DPE (if we get it).

Well he fits the DPE with salary and contract. I am just not sure if he moves the needle. I guess I would give him a shot. He is 6'10" and can pass and shoot some. I would take him for a 2nd round pick.
expecting a difference maker with the DPE is a pipe dream.  Someone like McRoberts however, could be a nice useful veteran big man off the bench. 
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Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2017, 01:05:10 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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The Mavs are terrible, but they aren't trading Noel.  I wouldn't mind McRoberts though assuming he is back and healthy relatively soon.  Maybe Dallas will part with him for like a 2nd rounder or something and we can fit him in the DPE (if we get it).

Well he fits the DPE with salary and contract. I am just not sure if he moves the needle. I guess I would give him a shot. He is 6'10" and can pass and shoot some. I would take him for a 2nd round pick.
expecting a difference maker with the DPE is a pipe dream.  Someone like McRoberts however, could be a nice useful veteran big man off the bench.

I support your decision. Call Danny.


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Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2017, 01:58:09 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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I find it hard to believe that a hometown guy would up and leave. This is the same guy that turned down  $11M per for less per year. So if he doesn't resign what have you lost?

There are restrictions on who you can use the DPE on. No guys that have multi year deals...but pending FAs you can trade for.

All I'm saying is we can't lose 25ppg and not feel it at somw point. Since we cant make up the points we can make up the defense.
Yeah, I think Noel would be a great pick up.
He improves our team for the year.
If signs elsewhere next year so be it, what did we lose?
If he somehow decides to accept the full MLE from us next year then all the better.

The assets that we traded for him. It would be one thing if we got him for free, but we'd need to give up assets (picks/young guys) for him. A one year rental of Nerlens Noel isn't worth that

Not to mention that he has the ability to veto any trade, and there's no way he agrees to a trade where he ends up on a team that can't pay him big money (especially one where he would have a smaller role)

Why? he took the QO to get a bigger payday next year.
I think he's got his bags packed already.

Noel brings it on d. He's a stopgap but that's exactly what we need.
Allows Morrris to play more 3, which helps keep Tatum from burning up before the all star game.
Also helps preserve horford, so maybe he has more juice once he, Haward, and Irving finally make there run.

If the price is the DPE and a late first/couple of seconds I'd gladly pay for the year rental.

Yes, all of this was my exact thought.

Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2017, 02:26:13 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I find it hard to believe that a hometown guy would up and leave. This is the same guy that turned down  $11M per for less per year. So if he doesn't resign what have you lost?

There are restrictions on who you can use the DPE on. No guys that have multi year deals...but pending FAs you can trade for.

All I'm saying is we can't lose 25ppg and not feel it at somw point. Since we cant make up the points we can make up the defense.
Yeah, I think Noel would be a great pick up.
He improves our team for the year.
If signs elsewhere next year so be it, what did we lose?
If he somehow decides to accept the full MLE from us next year then all the better.

The assets that we traded for him. It would be one thing if we got him for free, but we'd need to give up assets (picks/young guys) for him. A one year rental of Nerlens Noel isn't worth that

Not to mention that he has the ability to veto any trade, and there's no way he agrees to a trade where he ends up on a team that can't pay him big money (especially one where he would have a smaller role)

Why? he took the QO to get a bigger payday next year.
I think he's got his bags packed already.

Noel brings it on d. He's a stopgap but that's exactly what we need.
Allows Morrris to play more 3, which helps keep Tatum from burning up before the all star game.
Also helps preserve horford, so maybe he has more juice once he, Haward, and Irving finally make there run.

If the price is the DPE and a late first/couple of seconds I'd gladly pay for the year rental.

Yes, all of this was my exact thought.
yeah but Dallas won't and neither will Noel (who has a no trade clause)
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Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2017, 02:40:19 PM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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I find it hard to believe that a hometown guy would up and leave. This is the same guy that turned down  $11M per for less per year. So if he doesn't resign what have you lost?

There are restrictions on who you can use the DPE on. No guys that have multi year deals...but pending FAs you can trade for.

All I'm saying is we can't lose 25ppg and not feel it at somw point. Since we cant make up the points we can make up the defense.
Yeah, I think Noel would be a great pick up.
He improves our team for the year.
If signs elsewhere next year so be it, what did we lose?
If he somehow decides to accept the full MLE from us next year then all the better.

The assets that we traded for him. It would be one thing if we got him for free, but we'd need to give up assets (picks/young guys) for him. A one year rental of Nerlens Noel isn't worth that

Not to mention that he has the ability to veto any trade, and there's no way he agrees to a trade where he ends up on a team that can't pay him big money (especially one where he would have a smaller role)

Why? he took the QO to get a bigger payday next year.
I think he's got his bags packed already.

Noel brings it on d. He's a stopgap but that's exactly what we need.
Allows Morrris to play more 3, which helps keep Tatum from burning up before the all star game.
Also helps preserve horford, so maybe he has more juice once he, Haward, and Irving finally make there run.

If the price is the DPE and a late first/couple of seconds I'd gladly pay for the year rental.

Yes, all of this was my exact thought.
yeah but Dallas won't and neither will Noel (who has a no trade clause)

Dallas could be swayed by the fact that they suck and we have some minor assets to give for an expiring deal. Noel would get to play for a playoff team. I'm not saying it's a slam dunk, but I don't really see Dallas or Noel just refusing entirely to look into it.

Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2017, 02:43:42 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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As others have pointed out many times, this doesn't make much sense.

Nerlens isn't waiving his bird rights to come to Boston unless the Mavs have benched him and there are no other trade options. The C's/Mavs could come to a deal but in the end Nerlens right of refusal makes it impossible.

Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2017, 05:36:40 PM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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Nerlens has Bird Rights with Dallas but what he fails to understand they didn't offer him big enough money for him to sign long term this year. What makes him think that's going to change next year. Dallas is just getting his services for a much cheaper price because no one else would pay him big money. If he came to Boston and played in meaningful playoff games, it would increase his exposure, just ask AB, Crowder and KO.

I'm just saying...keeping Bird Rights to a team that isn't going to resign you makes no sense. He's not even starting. (shrugs shoulders)

Re: Use DPE on Nerlens Noel
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2017, 05:43:41 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Nerlens has Bird Rights with Dallas but what he fails to understand they didn't offer him big enough money for him to sign long term this year. What makes him think that's going to change next year. Dallas is just getting his services for a much cheaper price because no one else would pay him big money. If he came to Boston and played in meaningful playoff games, it would increase his exposure, just ask AB, Crowder and KO.

I'm just saying...keeping Bird Rights to a team that isn't going to resign you makes no sense. He's not even starting. (shrugs shoulders)

They offered $70m over 4 years, significantly more than we could sign him to if we traded for him and he waived his bird rights.
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