Fultz's Terrible Start & Injury Updates

[kozlodoev]

generally players that aren't injured don't get cortisone shots nor undergo physiotherapy.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21141852/philadelphia-76ers-rookie-markelle-fultz-had-cortisone-shot-shoulder

Sure. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's "unable to lift his arm above his shoulder". Generally players that are that damaged don't play.

I don't think that is necessarily true.  If there is no risk of causing harm (outside of the normal risk associated with playing), players play with all kinds of injuries all the time that they probably shouldn't be playing with and which could alter their mechanics in some way.  I mean Thomas last year was playing with/through the hip injury until he reinjured it causing too much pain.

Yes, Thomas did that. And Pierce routinely played with an inflamed elbow that required regular drainage. But neither of these two appeared affected. So the point still stands -- if he's in so much pain that he can't execute fundamental techniques correctly, he probably wouldn't play.

[Big333223]

Update: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21153797/philadelphia-76ers-rookie-markelle-fultz-miss-next-three-games

Fultz is going to be held out the next 3 games due to shoulder soreness.

[Erik]

It's actually the first time I've mentioned it, and it was directly related to someone saying that I was saying conspiracy theories. I wanted to cite that I'm not some conspiracy nut and I am actually looking at data and analyzing it like I would do at work. Yes, being an engineer doesn't mean that I can say for certainty that the Sixers are lying, but maybe I'm seeing something that you aren't seeing: A pattern of deceit and incompetence. It's absolutely absurd for you to believe that your personal profession doesn't give you any advantage over others in specific areas:

The lawyer would be better suited to evaluate a contract or legal dispute.
The mathematician would be better suited to go in depth into the statistical analysis.
The doctor would be better suited to give a prognosis based on visual injury inspection (Hayward).
The engineer would be better suited to solve an unexplainable problem through deduction and analysis of past indicators.

Citing your experience is important when making a statement that may be controversial. For example if I told you Hayward's injury looked like it would be healed in 4 months, would you feel better, worse, or neutral if I also told you that I'm head of surgery at Johns Hopkins?

So we have a problem:
Markelle Fultz is playing injured, is playing bad, and his agent is changing the story.

I broke these down 1 by 1:
1) Markelle Fultz is playing injured.
Facts:
a) Okafor was cited needing 6 weeks recovery time, it took 6 months.

b) They shut down Simmons for 1 year because he had a foot fracture during practice.
ESPN's Jeff Goodman (h/t ESPN.com's Marc Stein) reported prior to the surgery that Simmons was expected to miss three months with a return date in December or January.

c) Embiid -- well you know this story. You'd think the amount the guy sat out, they rebuilt his entire body from scratch.

Conclusion: The Sixers do not take chances with their stars and are not afraid to shut down a rookie. Why would he be playing? Most likely answer: He is either not injured or it isn't significant.

2) Fultz is playing bad.
Facts:
a) Out of all of the top (5?) prospects, Fultz had the worst college record:
Fultz (9-22)
Ball (31-5)
Tatum (28-9)
Jackson (31-5)
Fox (32-6)

b) After we got the #1 pick, I watched a lot of his games in college, a lot of highlights, etc and I noticed a trend: He played hero ball and disappeared a lot. He was very successful in ISO situations and what I like to call Pick and Roll without the roll, but he did it against bad college players and didn't make his teammates better and it was evident in the standings. For example, do you really believe that if Michael Jordan was on that team it would have finished 9-22?

c) He had bad performances in both the Celtics and Sixers workouts. We all saw the 76ers clip where he missed pretty much every single shot, unguarded. Was he injured then, too?

d) His plus minus is -6.6. His VORP and win shares are also negative. He is hurting his team eveyr time he's on the court.

Conclusion: He doesn't look NBA ready yet. He needs more development to understand how to play team ball.

3) His agent keeps changing the story:
a) His agent posts that he can't lift his arm and fluid is being drained from his arm. We have proof that he did raise his arm (I posted a picture). Fultz retweets this.
b) Fultz later deletes the tweet
c) Now his agent posts that it's actually a cortisone shot (fluid going in).

Conclusion: His agent either doesn't understand what is being done for his STAR player (what!?), or he's just doing damage control. (I think the latter is more believable given Fultz retweeted the incorrect information. You'd think he'd know what's happening to his own shoulder, no?).

So that's it:
1) He's not injured (or it's not serious)
2) He's not NBA ready
3) His agent is doing damage control.

Is it really that hard to believe that they're giving him reps against the opposing team's bench players to make him look good and sell a few jerseys, it failed, now they're doing damage control? He needs d league development, in my opinion. My take seems to be the correct one and not the conspiracy theory.

[SHAQATTACK]

Should we offer the Lakers pick back to Philly for Fultz .....his stock is low . 

[kozlodoev]

Update: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21153797/philadelphia-76ers-rookie-markelle-fultz-miss-next-three-games

Fultz is going to be held out the next 3 games due to shoulder soreness.

Who said there were no plans for him to miss games, again?

Oy vey.

[D Dub]

I actually think Erik has the best theory I've read.  Very plausible when you consider how invested Philly and his agent are.  If he's just bad without being hurt, Coangelo gets exposed hardcore and should lose his job. 

And an aside -- what fun is it to analyze a situation that has come to its conclusion?  I always laugh at the prevalent comment seen here that, 'we haven't seen enough to form any opinion yet'. 
Really? 
Then why spend time talking hopes on a this blog debating the future of the team.  We all like to play arm-chair GM, and that means making predictions on limited data. 

And fwiw, I'm not an engineer and spend more time surfing the ocean than the internet ---- but was calling Fultz a bust from day one.   

It's now on Markele to change the narrative, because there is no getting around how ugly his game is.

[bdm860]

According to Reddit, this is a video of Fultz from 3 weeks ago:

https://streamable.com/zqbnu

[BitterJim]

It's actually the first time I've mentioned it, and it was directly related to someone saying that I was saying conspiracy theories. I wanted to cite that I'm not some conspiracy nut and I am actually looking at data and analyzing it like I would do at work. Yes, being an engineer doesn't mean that I can say for certainty that the Sixers are lying, but maybe I'm seeing something that you aren't seeing: A pattern of deceit and incompetence. It's absolutely absurd for you to believe that your personal profession doesn't give you any advantage over others in specific areas:

The lawyer would be better suited to evaluate a contract or legal dispute.
The mathematician would be better suited to go in depth into the statistical analysis.
The doctor would be better suited to give a prognosis based on visual injury inspection (Hayward).
The engineer would be better suited to solve an unexplainable problem through deduction and analysis of past indicators.

Citing your experience is important when making a statement that may be controversial. For example if I told you Hayward's injury looked like it would be healed in 4 months, would you feel better, worse, or neutral if I also told you that I'm head of surgery at Johns Hopkins?

So we have a problem:
Markelle Fultz is playing injured, is playing bad, and his agent is changing the story.

I broke these down 1 by 1:
1) Markelle Fultz is playing injured.
Facts:
a) Okafor was cited needing 6 weeks recovery time, it took 6 months.

b) They shut down Simmons for 1 year because he had a foot fracture during practice.
ESPN's Jeff Goodman (h/t ESPN.com's Marc Stein) reported prior to the surgery that Simmons was expected to miss three months with a return date in December or January.

c) Embiid -- well you know this story. You'd think the amount the guy sat out, they rebuilt his entire body from scratch.

Conclusion: The Sixers do not take chances with their stars and are not afraid to shut down a rookie. Why would he be playing? Most likely answer: He is either not injured or it isn't significant.

2) Fultz is playing bad.
Facts:
a) Out of all of the top (5?) prospects, Fultz had the worst college record:
Fultz (9-22)
Ball (31-5)
Tatum (28-9)
Jackson (31-5)
Fox (32-6)

b) After we got the #1 pick, I watched a lot of his games in college, a lot of highlights, etc and I noticed a trend: He played hero ball and disappeared a lot. He was very successful in ISO situations and what I like to call Pick and Roll without the roll, but he did it against bad college players and didn't make his teammates better and it was evident in the standings. For example, do you really believe that if Michael Jordan was on that team it would have finished 9-22?

c) He had bad performances in both the Celtics and Sixers workouts. We all saw the 76ers clip where he missed pretty much every single shot, unguarded. Was he injured then, too?

d) His plus minus is -6.6. His VORP and win shares are also negative. He is hurting his team eveyr time he's on the court.

Conclusion: He doesn't look NBA ready yet. He needs more development to understand how to play team ball.

3) His agent keeps changing the story:
a) His agent posts that he can't lift his arm and fluid is being drained from his arm. We have proof that he did raise his arm (I posted a picture). Fultz retweets this.
b) Fultz later deletes the tweet
c) Now his agent posts that it's actually a cortisone shot (fluid going in).

Conclusion: His agent either doesn't understand what is being done for his STAR player (what!?), or he's just doing damage control. (I think the latter is more believable given Fultz retweeted the incorrect information. You'd think he'd know what's happening to his own shoulder, no?).

So that's it:
1) He's not injured (or it's not serious)
2) He's not NBA ready
3) His agent is doing damage control.

Is it really that hard to believe that they're giving him reps against the opposing team's bench players to make him look good and sell a few jerseys, it failed, now they're doing damage control? He needs d league development, in my opinion. My take seems to be the correct one and not the conspiracy theory.

Of course people weighing in on their areas of expertise is beneficial.  The issue is that this is not the area of expertise for an engineer.  Being an engineer does not make you better able to analyze how a professional basketball franchise is running (or "better suited to solve an unexplainable problem through deduction and analysis of past indicators".  Everyone in the world is able to see patterns and draw conclusions from them). 

Being an engineer is very relevant if something comes up in your area of expertise, but again, the inner workings of basketball organizations is not your area of expertise.  Being an engineer is irrelevant in this case.  Just present your theory, don't attempt to make it seem superior because of your profession.

[kozlodoev]

According to Reddit, this is a video of Fultz from 3 weeks ago:

https://streamable.com/zqbnu

Theoretically, this may have been before he needed to have a cortisone shot.

On a related note, this particular routine looks like something that should be named "looking for lower back troubles". I've never seen this type of jerk before.

[jpotter33]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/10/markelle-fultz-to-miss-at-least-three-games.html

Lol now Colangelo is saying the change in Fultz's shot might be the cause of his shoulder injury. What a mess.

[Fan from VT]

Relevant article on The Ringer

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/10/25/16542912/markelle-fultz-sixers-shoulder-medical

[Monkhouse]

It's actually the first time I've mentioned it, and it was directly related to someone saying that I was saying conspiracy theories. I wanted to cite that I'm not some conspiracy nut and I am actually looking at data and analyzing it like I would do at work. Yes, being an engineer doesn't mean that I can say for certainty that the Sixers are lying, but maybe I'm seeing something that you aren't seeing: A pattern of deceit and incompetence. It's absolutely absurd for you to believe that your personal profession doesn't give you any advantage over others in specific areas:

The lawyer would be better suited to evaluate a contract or legal dispute.
The mathematician would be better suited to go in depth into the statistical analysis.
The doctor would be better suited to give a prognosis based on visual injury inspection (Hayward).
The engineer would be better suited to solve an unexplainable problem through deduction and analysis of past indicators.

Citing your experience is important when making a statement that may be controversial. For example if I told you Hayward's injury looked like it would be healed in 4 months, would you feel better, worse, or neutral if I also told you that I'm head of surgery at Johns Hopkins?

So we have a problem:
Markelle Fultz is playing injured, is playing bad, and his agent is changing the story.

I broke these down 1 by 1:
1) Markelle Fultz is playing injured.
Facts:
a) Okafor was cited needing 6 weeks recovery time, it took 6 months.

b) They shut down Simmons for 1 year because he had a foot fracture during practice.
ESPN's Jeff Goodman (h/t ESPN.com's Marc Stein) reported prior to the surgery that Simmons was expected to miss three months with a return date in December or January.

c) Embiid -- well you know this story. You'd think the amount the guy sat out, they rebuilt his entire body from scratch.

Conclusion: The Sixers do not take chances with their stars and are not afraid to shut down a rookie. Why would he be playing? Most likely answer: He is either not injured or it isn't significant.

2) Fultz is playing bad.
Facts:
a) Out of all of the top (5?) prospects, Fultz had the worst college record:
Fultz (9-22)
Ball (31-5)
Tatum (28-9)
Jackson (31-5)
Fox (32-6)

b) After we got the #1 pick, I watched a lot of his games in college, a lot of highlights, etc and I noticed a trend: He played hero ball and disappeared a lot. He was very successful in ISO situations and what I like to call Pick and Roll without the roll, but he did it against bad college players and didn't make his teammates better and it was evident in the standings. For example, do you really believe that if Michael Jordan was on that team it would have finished 9-22?

c) He had bad performances in both the Celtics and Sixers workouts. We all saw the 76ers clip where he missed pretty much every single shot, unguarded. Was he injured then, too?

d) His plus minus is -6.6. His VORP and win shares are also negative. He is hurting his team eveyr time he's on the court.

Conclusion: He doesn't look NBA ready yet. He needs more development to understand how to play team ball.

3) His agent keeps changing the story:
a) His agent posts that he can't lift his arm and fluid is being drained from his arm. We have proof that he did raise his arm (I posted a picture). Fultz retweets this.
b) Fultz later deletes the tweet
c) Now his agent posts that it's actually a cortisone shot (fluid going in).

Conclusion: His agent either doesn't understand what is being done for his STAR player (what!?), or he's just doing damage control. (I think the latter is more believable given Fultz retweeted the incorrect information. You'd think he'd know what's happening to his own shoulder, no?).

So that's it:
1) He's not injured (or it's not serious)
2) He's not NBA ready
3) His agent is doing damage control.

Is it really that hard to believe that they're giving him reps against the opposing team's bench players to make him look good and sell a few jerseys, it failed, now they're doing damage control? He needs d league development, in my opinion. My take seems to be the correct one and not the conspiracy theory.

Of course people weighing in on their areas of expertise is beneficial.  The issue is that this is not the area of expertise for an engineer.  Being an engineer does not make you better able to analyze how a professional basketball franchise is running (or "better suited to solve an unexplainable problem through deduction and analysis of past indicators".  Everyone in the world is able to see patterns and draw conclusions from them). 

Being an engineer is very relevant if something comes up in your area of expertise, but again, the inner workings of basketball organizations is not your area of expertise.  Being an engineer is irrelevant in this case.  Just present your theory, don't attempt to make it seem superior because of your profession.

TP. Agree with everything you said.

[incoherent]

The agent and player are bad liars trying to cover for his bad performance. 

I love that this happened.

[Erik]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/10/markelle-fultz-to-miss-at-least-three-games.html

Lol now Colangelo is saying the change in Fultz's shot might be the cause of his shoulder injury. What a mess.

I don't underatand why any of these players stick around this organization. I'd be out the door first chance. Obviously in embiids case he had no shot making that money elsewhere, but if I'm Simmons I'm gone first chance. Simmons looks like he could make it in the NBA as long as he develops a jumper as minimal as LeBron did.

[jdz101]

Meanwhile Tatum shooting 50/50/85.