Author Topic: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???  (Read 5616 times)

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Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2017, 04:32:29 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I'm not going to judge him game by game. Kyrie is better than he's shown.

I still hate the trade, haha.

TP. Much respect. We don't have to see eye to eye, but your take is well thought out. The chicken littles irritate me waaay more than the anti Irving camp.

I think Kyrie's value proposition is very similar to IT's. If you need a bucket when it counts, they will get it for you. Almost any contender needs a similar bucket getter. They're not going to average 10 assists per game, which will irritate many fans who have a certain expectation of a PG. They're not Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. Unlike those two, Kyrie has actually hit a championship winning shot. Oh, and he's only 25- a couple of years away from his prime.

Loved IT, but he was going to be too pricey, was hurt, and had already hit his prime (in terms of age). While we can expect Kyrie to improve, its a tougher sell for IT.

Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2017, 04:44:40 AM »

Offline Drucci

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He was better than in the first two games, more in the flow of the offense, looking to pass and to score with more balance. And he was clutch so it was great to see him get more comfortable although it's obviously still a learning process.

Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2017, 04:44:43 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I'm not going to judge him game by game. Kyrie is better than he's shown.

I still hate the trade, haha.

TP. Much respect. We don't have to see eye to eye, but your take is well thought out. The chicken littles irritate me waaay more than the anti Irving camp.

I think Kyrie's value proposition is very similar to IT's. If you need a bucket when it counts, they will get it for you. Almost any contender needs a similar bucket getter. They're not going to average 10 assists per game, which will irritate many fans who have a certain expectation of a PG. They're not Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. Unlike those two, Kyrie has actually hit a championship winning shot. Oh, and he's only 25- a couple of years away from his prime.

Loved IT, but he was going to be too pricey, was hurt, and had already hit his prime (in terms of age). While we can expect Kyrie to improve, its a tougher sell for IT.
Yeah but with the value we gave up it should be reasonable to expect great production off the bat. I hope he becomes great but rn he's not even at the level he was in Cleveland last year production wise.
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Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2017, 06:11:28 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I'm not going to judge him game by game. Kyrie is better than he's shown.

I still hate the trade, haha.

TP. Much respect. We don't have to see eye to eye, but your take is well thought out. The chicken littles irritate me waaay more than the anti Irving camp.

I think Kyrie's value proposition is very similar to IT's. If you need a bucket when it counts, they will get it for you. Almost any contender needs a similar bucket getter. They're not going to average 10 assists per game, which will irritate many fans who have a certain expectation of a PG. They're not Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. Unlike those two, Kyrie has actually hit a championship winning shot. Oh, and he's only 25- a couple of years away from his prime.

Loved IT, but he was going to be too pricey, was hurt, and had already hit his prime (in terms of age). While we can expect Kyrie to improve, its a tougher sell for IT.
Yeah but with the value we gave up it should be reasonable to expect great production off the bat. I hope he becomes great but rn he's not even at the level he was in Cleveland last year production wise.

Eh,  maybe. I thought there was consensus that there would be growing pains with such high turnover. The Celtics are trying to implement a game plan to win current and future games. I'm not expecting that plan to be complete before the season started. I actually think the Celtics could have a tough time over the next year and a half (even if they had a healthy Gordon Hayward). Kyrie plays for the Celtics, and while he is known for his ISO skills, he is still working with teammates.

In the NBA, 3 quarters, two dimes, and a nickle do not equal a dollar. Usually it takes an overpay to get the best player in the trade. In a vacuum (ignoring context), I understand that people think that IT is as good or better than Kyrie. Once context is added, I don't understand how people think that an injured IT going into FA is a better asset than Kyrie. That argument doesn't make sense, at least to me.

Danny had been waiting years to cash in with his bundle of assets. Once Irving became available, he did what he had to do to acquire the best player. He had passed multiple times previously on acquiring top talent, and this was his time to do so. Also, he still has Brown, Tatum, and the LAL/SAC pick (and maybe the MEM pick) that could be traded for another NBA star.

Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2017, 06:55:43 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I'm not going to judge him game by game. Kyrie is better than he's shown.

I still hate the trade, haha.

TP. Much respect. We don't have to see eye to eye, but your take is well thought out. The chicken littles irritate me waaay more than the anti Irving camp.

I think Kyrie's value proposition is very similar to IT's. If you need a bucket when it counts, they will get it for you. Almost any contender needs a similar bucket getter. They're not going to average 10 assists per game, which will irritate many fans who have a certain expectation of a PG. They're not Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. Unlike those two, Kyrie has actually hit a championship winning shot. Oh, and he's only 25- a couple of years away from his prime.

Loved IT, but he was going to be too pricey, was hurt, and had already hit his prime (in terms of age). While we can expect Kyrie to improve, its a tougher sell for IT.
Yeah but with the value we gave up it should be reasonable to expect great production off the bat. I hope he becomes great but rn he's not even at the level he was in Cleveland last year production wise.
Only if you ignore all context
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Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2017, 07:14:27 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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We are averaging 15 TO's per game.   It was pretty clear watching that we are not fully ready with the ball movement and screens.   I saw a handoff that was particularly awkward at one point.   I think this will improve within the first twenty games.

I think he was decent in the fourth.   That one shot on the left side clutched the game for us.  I think he has been trying on D.   We will grow as a team and he will improve.  Big difference switching from me ball to team ball.   He will get it.   CBS will make adjustments as he has never had a player of his ilk talent wise and yes, that includes IT.

Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2017, 08:02:04 AM »

Offline Greyman

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Before the season started I was wondering about Kyrie fitting into the CBS system. After three games I am considering more, how does CBS get the team to fit to Kyrie? I am seeing KI getting some great passes away and a court vision that goes beyond the textbook or coaching manual.

Because Kyrie's powers don't include the size or physical presence of a LBJ, he makes up for it with the  speed that he sees the open man and so many other things he does more efficiently than other players or they can't do.

Kyrie is only an upgrade over IT if the team is getting the most out of all his other skills, as point scorers Kyrie will struggle to achieve what IT did as a Celtic. That is in terms of PPG. Kyrie can achieve Rondo like assists if the team can keep up. He can also score more points per game than he has so far if other players are more responsive to his leads.

I know we are talking Kyrie tonight but in all three games I have seen situations where KI gets the ball and isn't able to do what his instinct sees as others don't make the right move. We can't give everybody KI like view of the court but getting the most out of KI means coaching others in the best ways to react to Kyrie.

I shudder to think how good a lineup of KI, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Horford will be in a year or two. These are all guys with great BB IQ and, Horford apart, have time on their sides.

Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2017, 08:17:36 AM »

Offline Green-18

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Before the season started I was wondering about Kyrie fitting into the CBS system. After three games I am considering more, how does CBS get the team to fit to Kyrie? I am seeing KI getting some great passes away and a court vision that goes beyond the textbook or coaching manual.

Because Kyrie's powers don't include the size or physical presence of a LBJ, he makes up for it with the  speed that he sees the open man and so many other things he does more efficiently than other players or they can't do.

Kyrie is only an upgrade over IT if the team is getting the most out of all his other skills, as point scorers Kyrie will struggle to achieve what IT did as a Celtic. That is in terms of PPG. Kyrie can achieve Rondo like assists if the team can keep up. He can also score more points per game than he has so far if other players are more responsive to his leads.

I know we are talking Kyrie tonight but in all three games I have seen situations where KI gets the ball and isn't able to do what his instinct sees as others don't make the right move. We can't give everybody KI like view of the court but getting the most out of KI means coaching others in the best ways to react to Kyrie.

I shudder to think how good a lineup of KI, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Horford will be in a year or two. These are all guys with great BB IQ and, Horford apart, have time on their sides.

Some great points throughout, especially the idea of getting the team to fit Kyrie's style of play.  That comment reminds me of Brad's approach to IT and it really drives home the fact that every player/situation is different.  Brad told IT to attack relentlessly and that it was up to the team to adjust.  It's clear that his goal was to establish IT's confidence first and then integrate him into the system.

The conditions are completely different this time around and we aren't simply fighting to make the playoffs anymore.  Kyrie will need adjust a lot more than IT.  I have mentioned in other threads that a Golden State or San Antonio Spurs style offense is the barometer.  None of this will happen overnight but it will pay off in the long run once everyone has fully developed.

Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2017, 08:20:16 AM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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Same Kyrie he has always been.  If he doesn't improve...

Can we start to put the "superstar" **** to rest?  No superstar has ever been outplayed by Terry Rozier.

This going to be the recurring theme for you all season. We get it you're not part of the Kyrie fan club. We won by 10 with a team full guys who were still breast feeding a few years ago.
ok fine

Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2017, 09:40:38 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Does everyone realize the special season Isaiah Thomas had last year came after already playing a year and a half in BS' system?  That he had a year and a half to build chemistry and learn tendencies of the core group of players there? 

Even before Hayward went down, everyone knew (or should have known) there was going to be an extreme learning curve for a team returning only 4 guys from last year's team.  Think about it.  2 starters are under the age of 20.  A second yr player and a rookie!!  Let that sink in.  With the exception of Al, everyone on this team is trying to figure out their role, fit, spots, tendencies, etc.  These guys do not have the reps or minutes TOGETHER yet. 

For anyone to compare IT's season last yr to Kyrie's first 3 games on a team that lost their 2nd best player, has only 4 returning players and had players named Larkin and Bird playing crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter of a close game, is absolutely ludicrous!!
It's not just Isaiah though, we also gave up Crowder who is very valuable with his contract, a nice looking Nets pick now Lin is down and a young big man prospect who can be a serviceable player with some value in Zizic for A GUY WHO GOT OUTPLAYED BY TERRY ****ING ROZIER AGAINST A TEAM THAT HAS **** PGs! At least get 25/10/5 a game on good efficiency smh.

Im going to tell you this. Kyrie has outplayed IT+Crowder this season.
The first who is injured (so no data) and the second one who's doing what he's expected to do. You also haven't factored in the potential of the Nets pick and Zizic, which can be valuable assets.

So? That is exactly my point. If we didn't do the trade, we'd be 0-3 right now looking at Jae Crowder as our go to guy.

This season Kyrie only has to outperform Crowder+IT, and given that IT is going to miss some time, it looks like he will. Moving forward who knows if Danny wouldve resigned Thomas to even warrant the discussion. So Kyrie would just have to outperform whoever the Cavs select with that pick+Crowder.

Contrary to your belief, I already factored in those things.


Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2017, 09:42:53 AM »

Offline iadera

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Same Kyrie he has always been.  If he doesn't improve...

Can we start to put the "superstar" **** to rest?  No superstar has ever been outplayed by Terry Rozier.

If Kyrie wanted to go out and score a lot more he could definitely do it.  He is trying extremely hard to execute a difficult offense with a bunch of inexperienced players around him.  I have no doubts that his game is going to reach another level as he becomes more experienced with CBS's system.

Exactly! He's trying to fit in Brad's system and in some moments it's more than obvious he's trying to change his game and to adapt to his new role which will definitively take him to the higher level. In Brad we trust!

Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2017, 09:45:07 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Are we really going to have a new thread asking about Kyrie's performance after every single game??

When they lose and Kyrie struggles, "I'm worried about Kyrie", after a solid game in a win, "Thoughts on Kyrie?".

After Game 5 of the season, "did we just win/lose the Kyrie trade already"

 :P
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Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2017, 09:46:12 AM »

Offline iadera

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Are we really going to have a new thread asking about Kyrie's performance after every single game??

When they lose and Kyrie struggles, "I'm worried about Kyrie", after a solid game in a win, "Thoughts on Kyrie?".

After Game 5 of the season, "did we just win/lose the Kyrie trade already"

 :P

I was thinking the same. It's senseless.

Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2017, 09:58:03 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Does everyone realize the special season Isaiah Thomas had last year came after already playing a year and a half in BS' system?  That he had a year and a half to build chemistry and learn tendencies of the core group of players there? 

Even before Hayward went down, everyone knew (or should have known) there was going to be an extreme learning curve for a team returning only 4 guys from last year's team.  Think about it.  2 starters are under the age of 20.  A second yr player and a rookie!!  Let that sink in.  With the exception of Al, everyone on this team is trying to figure out their role, fit, spots, tendencies, etc.  These guys do not have the reps or minutes TOGETHER yet. 

For anyone to compare IT's season last yr to Kyrie's first 3 games on a team that lost their 2nd best player, has only 4 returning players and had players named Larkin and Bird playing crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter of a close game, is absolutely ludicrous!!
It's not just Isaiah though, we also gave up Crowder who is very valuable with his contract, a nice looking Nets pick now Lin is down and a young big man prospect who can be a serviceable player with some value in Zizic for A GUY WHO GOT OUTPLAYED BY TERRY ****ING ROZIER AGAINST A TEAM THAT HAS **** PGs! At least get 25/10/5 a game on good efficiency smh.

Im going to tell you this. Kyrie has outplayed IT+Crowder this season.
The first who is injured (so no data) and the second one who's doing what he's expected to do. You also haven't factored in the potential of the Nets pick and Zizic, which can be valuable assets.

So? That is exactly my point. If we didn't do the trade, we'd be 0-3 right now looking at Jae Crowder as our go to guy.

This season Kyrie only has to outperform Crowder+IT, and given that IT is going to miss some time, it looks like he will. Moving forward who knows if Danny wouldve resigned Thomas to even warrant the discussion. So Kyrie would just have to outperform whoever the Cavs select with that pick+Crowder.

Contrary to your belief, I already factored in those things.
I guess we disagree on the value of the Nets pick then. I hope Kyrie picks it up, it's frustrating because I see flashes but I just can't see Kyrie go off consistently.
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Re: Thoughts on Kyrie tonight???
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2017, 12:26:02 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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He's dealing with a new system, new team, a devastating injury to a major player, many rookies that are pushed into important roles, and some short-sighted bloggers.

He'll get better...and yes, I do miss the security of the Nets pick too.