Author Topic: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time  (Read 839 times)

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The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« on: October 20, 2017, 11:49:37 AM »

Offline Moranis

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http://theundefeated.com/features/nba-50-greatest-players-remix/?addata=espn:frontpage

They swapped out 14 players.

Those removed from the 96-97 list include some C's
Nate Archibald
Dave Bing
Dave Cowens
Dave DeBusschere
Clyde Drexler
Sam Jones
Pete Maravich
Robert Parish
Dolph Schayes
Bill Sharman
Wes Unseld
Bill Walton
Lenny Wilkens
James Worthy

The 14 players they added are mostly pretty obvious and likewise include some C's
Ray Allen
Kobe Bryant
Stephen Curry
Tim Duncan
Kevin Durant
Kevin Garnett
Allen Iverson
Lebron James
Jason Kidd
Reggie Miller
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Paul Pierce
Dwyane Wade


Pretty interesting that Westbrook was left off for guys like Miller and Nash (and maybe even someone like Allen), but generally they seemed to do a pretty good job.  And I really don't get Miller's inclusion.  He was already basically out of his prime in 96-97 when they put the original list together.  He did nothing, except play a long time, after that that would merit inclusion. 
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Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2017, 11:52:34 AM »

Offline wayupnorth

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Taking off Sam Jones, Bill Walton, and Dave Owens?

That is tough.

Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 12:01:28 PM »

Online fairweatherfan

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Reggie Miller is not a top 50 player; other than that the inclusions are all pretty much no-brainers. Put Walton or Sam Jones back in there.

Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 12:02:21 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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not a lot to disagree with. 
- I think it's too early to include Steph Curry.
- I'm probably pretty biased but I wouldn't include Iverson over Drexler, Maravich, Archibald, Cowens or Worthy. 

Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 12:04:46 PM »

Offline makaveli

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I had the exact same thought about Reggie Miller...he had a great carer, but not top 50 all time, like maybe top 150-200.
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Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 12:07:33 PM »

Offline bdm860

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And I really don't get Miller's inclusion.  He was already basically out of his prime in 96-97 when they put the original list together.  He did nothing, except play a long time, after that that would merit inclusion.

He's the first guy I saw that I thought he really doesn't deserve to be here.  The man had some great playoff moments and some longevity and was popular, but that's really it.

3x 3rd team All-NBA, and only twice got votes for MVP (finishing 13th and 16th, receiving a total of three 3rd place votes over the course of his career).  For a guy that was probably never considered top 10 in the NBA for any given season to be considered top 50 overall, I don't know what to say.


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Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 12:14:35 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Ray Allen and Miller both are overrated. On a Celtics note, there's no way I would kick out Cowens for Pierce.
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Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 12:25:40 PM »

Offline Jon

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Yeah, Cowens did win two titles and an MVP. That's more than a lot of players on that list can say.

Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 12:28:18 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Stephen Curry should definitely not be on the list. I would take him off for either Gary Payton or Dennis Rodman.

Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 12:29:32 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Should've just added 21 more players rather than rearrange the top 50. 

As aside, I hope the NBA does the whole throwbacks/75th anniversary team thing in a few years.  That '96-97 season was pretty cool in that aspect.


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Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 12:34:57 PM »

Offline Timdawgg

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Here is my revision

They swapped out 14 players.

Those removed from the 96-97 list include some C's
Nate Archibald
Dave Bing
Dave Cowens - ADD BACK- should have never been removed
Dave DeBusschere
Clyde Drexler - ADD BACK He was so good and was for a long time
Sam Jones - Barely missed as I want to put him back on but can't think of who to take off (KD?)
Pete Maravich- Really want to leave him on..
Robert Parish - ADD BACK Great offense but I think his defense makes him deserve it.
Dolph Schayes
Bill Sharman
Wes Unseld
Bill Walton - ADD BACK- He was so dominant
Lenny Wilkens
James Worthy - Marginal but I will leave off.

The 14 players they added are mostly pretty obvious and likewise include some C's

Ray Allen - Marginal but I will leave on
Kobe Bryant
Stephen Curry REMOVE - Too early
Tim Duncan
Kevin Durant -  marginal He is a lock but maybe should not be there yet leave on (maybe trade Sam Jones for now)
Kevin Garnett
Allen Iverson- REMOVE - a few amazing years but not enough
Lebron James
Jason Kidd
Reggie Miller- REMOVE - Not even close. maybe top 100
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Paul Pierce - REMOVE - top 100 I have to take my green goggles off.
Dwyane Wade
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Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 12:34:59 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Stephen Curry should definitely not be on the list. I would take him off for either Gary Payton or Dennis Rodman.
Stephen Curry has 2 MVP's and 2 titles (one as the team leader).  He is the greatest shooter in NBA history.  He is far more deserving than Rodman or Payton. 
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Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 12:44:01 PM »

Offline bdm860

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I would still take Dominique (left off the original top 50) over several of the guys they added.

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Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 12:45:48 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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not a lot to disagree with. 
- I think it's too early to include Steph Curry.

It is too early based on career Win Shares.  He's been incredible over the last 4-5 years, but it's still a fairly short run of All-NBA caliber play compared to some other guards.

However, it is easy to project that he'll end up on that list if he continues at around his current level for another 4-5 years.

You could make a credible argument for him just on the fact that he had one of the most dominant regular seasons ever and has been the best or second best player on a team that's won 65-70+ games for 3 going on 4 years now, plus 2 titles.
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Re: The Undefeated's Update to the top 50 players of all time
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2017, 01:19:42 PM »

Offline Moranis

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not a lot to disagree with. 
- I think it's too early to include Steph Curry.

It is too early based on career Win Shares.  He's been incredible over the last 4-5 years, but it's still a fairly short run of All-NBA caliber play compared to some other guards.

However, it is easy to project that he'll end up on that list if he continues at around his current level for another 4-5 years.

You could make a credible argument for him just on the fact that he had one of the most dominant regular seasons ever and has been the best or second best player on a team that's won 65-70+ games for 3 going on 4 years now, plus 2 titles.
I mean they put Shaq on the first list like 4 seasons into his career.  Obviously it was a good call.

I have no issue with Curry.  His last 3+ seasons have been about as good as any player in history's best 3 year period.  2 MVP's (the only unanimous one in history), 2 Titles, and a runner-up in a season you set the all time wins record.  No team in NBA history has had as many wins over a 3 year period as the Warriors, and it is by and large a result of Curry (I mean even last year with Durant missing a bunch of games they didn't miss a beat). 

For me the question is if you remove Miller from the list (as you should) who do you replace him with.  Do you put Westbrook or Paul in his place or keep one of the older guys?
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