Author Topic: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?  (Read 2463 times)

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Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« on: October 20, 2017, 09:29:30 AM »

Offline billysan

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With the emerge of Jason Tatum  as a starter at the 4 has Marcus Morris lost his starting job?  Actually I think they can Co exist very well as starting forwards. I like Jaylen Brown at the 2 better than as a 3 although he does well there. I wonder what Brad has up his sleeve when Marcus returns?

I am putting in my 2 cents for Nerlens Noel now as an injury replacement for Hayward if we qualify. I think he is a good roster fit and will help immensely if he's not a headache. Apparently Dallas  doesn't feel like home but Boston just might give him the love he needs lol.
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Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2017, 09:35:01 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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He signed the big contract, who are you trading for him?

Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 09:35:10 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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No.   

Getting Tatum a lot of minutes at PF was fine when Hayward was there. 


But he isn't.   Get Tatum as many minutes at his natural position as possible.   Which means Morris is still useful at the 4. 

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Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 09:42:55 AM »

Offline RJ87

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Since Noel signed the QO, he'd have to give up his birdrights to come here. We're over the cap so we have to create cap space to resign him this offseason. It'd be INCREDIBLY hard to do that so he'd likely be a 1 season rental.
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Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 09:53:09 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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He signed the big contract, who are you trading for him?

What big contract are you talking about?

Noel refused the big contract offer from Dallas and instead signed to play this year on their Qualifying Offer, which is only 4.2M.

I assume that billysan's notion is that we could trade Marcus Morris' 5M contract for him.   Per CBA trade financials, that would work.    Dallas might even be interested in that.

There are some issues in the way of the notion, though.

First off, the reason Noel is playing on the QO is that it means that he will become an Unrestricted Free Agent this coming summer.

Second, again because he is playing on the QO, if Noel is traded this season, the team that gets him will not have Bird Rights.  They will take two more years with that team to vest.

Third, because his Bird Rights would not transfer, Noel has right of refusal on the trade.

Now, if the Celtics were due to be well below the salary cap or had a large enough exception available next summer that they could go ahead and sign Noel without Bird Rights, then trading for him would make sense.  He'd probably OK the trade (the Celtics being a team he would likely approve going to) and they would pull the trigger.

But they won't have cap room and they will only have the mid-level-exception, which is well below the level of money that Noel is looking for.

This means that if we did this trade, we would lose Noel to free agency in the summer.

Even if Noel long-term WANTS to be a Celtic, it would actually NOT be in his interest to approve such a trade (unless he's willing to play for a well-under-market deal for a couple of seasons).    He'd be better served to just play out the QO and reach UFA status but with Dallas holding his Bird Rights.   That would not only mean that Dallas could potentially pay him more, but it would also potentially enable them to sign & trade him to another team that might be over the cap.     'Not saying that is the most likely thing, but it simply increases his options, which is good for his market value.

Short version:   Purely for technical reasons, Nerlens Noel is almost certainly not a mid-season trade option for the Celtics.
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Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 10:04:54 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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No.   

Getting Tatum a lot of minutes at PF was fine when Hayward was there. 


But he isn't.   Get Tatum as many minutes at his natural position as possible.   Which means Morris is still useful at the 4.
I think PF is Tatum's natural position. The way he looks solid in that slot similar to Jabari the first two games has me thinking that way at least.

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Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 10:08:39 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Since Noel signed the QO, he'd have to give up his birdrights to come here. We're over the cap so we have to create cap space to resign him this offseason. It'd be INCREDIBLY hard to do that so he'd likely be a 1 season rental.

Not quite.  We'd be able to resign him for up to 120% of his 2017-18 salary, but there's no way he signs for $5 million after the contract he turned down this summer.  And I'd expect him to decline any trade to a team that isn't willing/able to sign him to a big contract long term (since he effectively has a no trade clause this season)

Edit: As mmmmm mentioned above we could also sign him with the mid-level exception, which would be about $8.5 million.  Still not a salary he would consider.
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Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 10:08:39 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I don't think it is worth a useful player who's signed for two years given we won't be in a position to resign Nerlens if we trade for him given his lack of bird rights in that scenario.

I would like to have him on Boston, but not as a one year rental.

Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 10:15:23 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I'm under the impression the new starting five will be:

Irving/Rozier
Brown/Smart
Tatum/Semi
Morris/Theis
Horford/Baynes

When Morris is ready.
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Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 10:43:49 AM »

Offline Androslav

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I'm under the impression the new starting five will be:

Irving/Rozier
Brown/Smart
Tatum/Semi
Morris/Theis
Horford/Baynes

When Morris is ready.
Yes, that lineup is offering itself to be the 1st five.
Some experience in to let Smart help the bench.
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Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 11:23:52 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Of course we need to give Morris a couple of months to learn Stevens' schemes and I am hoping for the best from him, but now am not as confident in his fit as I was a couple of months ago.

If he doesn't work out, I would look into a trade with the Grizzlies for JaMychal Green. He makes a bit more money ($8.53M) so somebody like Larkin would need to be included to make salaries work, but Green seems like a perfect fit for the Cs with his length to play and defend both forward positions, his ability to knock down the 3, and he also doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective.

Hopefully a trade isn't necessary and Morris can adjust his game to fit into what Stevens is trying to do - we certainly could use his scoring and he also can play both forward positions (I see no issue with his fit with Tatum).

Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 11:34:39 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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Noel goes against everything DA and BS are trying to do; get guys that can score.

Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2017, 10:26:33 AM »

Offline billysan

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He signed the big contract, who are you trading for him?

What big contract are you talking about?

Noel refused the big contract offer from Dallas and instead signed to play this year on their Qualifying Offer, which is only 4.2M.

I assume that billysan's notion is that we could trade Marcus Morris' 5M contract for him.   Per CBA trade financials, that would work.    Dallas might even be interested in that.

There are some issues in the way of the notion, though.

First off, the reason Noel is playing on the QO is that it means that he will become an Unrestricted Free Agent this coming summer.

Second, again because he is playing on the QO, if Noel is traded this season, the team that gets him will not have Bird Rights.  They will take two more years with that team to vest.

Third, because his Bird Rights would not transfer, Noel has right of refusal on the trade.

Now, if the Celtics were due to be well below the salary cap or had a large enough exception available next summer that they could go ahead and sign Noel without Bird Rights, then trading for him would make sense.  He'd probably OK the trade (the Celtics being a team he would likely approve going to) and they would pull the trigger.

But they won't have cap room and they will only have the mid-level-exception, which is well below the level of money that Noel is looking for.

This means that if we did this trade, we would lose Noel to free agency in the summer.

Even if Noel long-term WANTS to be a Celtic, it would actually NOT be in his interest to approve such a trade (unless he's willing to play for a well-under-market deal for a couple of seasons).    He'd be better served to just play out the QO and reach UFA status but with Dallas holding his Bird Rights.   That would not only mean that Dallas could potentially pay him more, but it would also potentially enable them to sign & trade him to another team that might be over the cap.     'Not saying that is the most likely thing, but it simply increases his options, which is good for his market value.

Short version:   Purely for technical reasons, Nerlens Noel is almost certainly not a mid-season trade option for the Celtics.

No, actually  I was thinking we could use part of the 8 million or so in space generated by the injured player roster excepton. We need to apply for it first and the NBA will have to decide if we merit it. If I understand it, we should because Hayward will be out for all or nearly all of this season.

His salary would easily fit and I would send a few mid level 1st picks and maybe a bench player to. Dallas.
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Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2017, 10:32:13 AM »

Offline jambr380

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He signed the big contract, who are you trading for him?

What big contract are you talking about?

Noel refused the big contract offer from Dallas and instead signed to play this year on their Qualifying Offer, which is only 4.2M.

I assume that billysan's notion is that we could trade Marcus Morris' 5M contract for him.   Per CBA trade financials, that would work.    Dallas might even be interested in that.

There are some issues in the way of the notion, though.

First off, the reason Noel is playing on the QO is that it means that he will become an Unrestricted Free Agent this coming summer.

Second, again because he is playing on the QO, if Noel is traded this season, the team that gets him will not have Bird Rights.  They will take two more years with that team to vest.

Third, because his Bird Rights would not transfer, Noel has right of refusal on the trade.

Now, if the Celtics were due to be well below the salary cap or had a large enough exception available next summer that they could go ahead and sign Noel without Bird Rights, then trading for him would make sense.  He'd probably OK the trade (the Celtics being a team he would likely approve going to) and they would pull the trigger.

But they won't have cap room and they will only have the mid-level-exception, which is well below the level of money that Noel is looking for.

This means that if we did this trade, we would lose Noel to free agency in the summer.

Even if Noel long-term WANTS to be a Celtic, it would actually NOT be in his interest to approve such a trade (unless he's willing to play for a well-under-market deal for a couple of seasons).    He'd be better served to just play out the QO and reach UFA status but with Dallas holding his Bird Rights.   That would not only mean that Dallas could potentially pay him more, but it would also potentially enable them to sign & trade him to another team that might be over the cap.     'Not saying that is the most likely thing, but it simply increases his options, which is good for his market value.

Short version:   Purely for technical reasons, Nerlens Noel is almost certainly not a mid-season trade option for the Celtics.

No, actually  I was thinking we could use part of the 8 million or so in space generated by the injured player roster excepton. We need to apply for it first and the NBA will have to decide if we merit it. If I understand it, we should because Hayward will be out for all or nearly all of this season.

His salary would easily fit and I would send a few mid level 1st picks and maybe a bench player to. Dallas.

I am not sure if you totally read mmmmm's explanation. You are willing to send a 'few' mid-level 1sts and a rotation player for a player we have absolutely no chance of re-signing after this season. If we were fighting for a championship, that would be on thing, but doing this would only deplete our assets in the hopes that we win a couple more playoff games than we otherwise would have.

Re: Marcus Morris? Nerlens Noel?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2017, 10:43:05 AM »

Offline saltlover

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This has been said here and in other threads.  Noel can veto any trade this year.  The reason he can veto any trade is because the team acquiring him would NOT acquire his Bird rights.  Noel’s Bird rights are incredibly important to him, as he’s hoping to leverage them into a contract for $17-20 million per year next summer.  There is a 0% chance he’d be willing to waive his right of refusal to go to any team that didn’t have the cap room to sign him next year (and probably he wouldn’t waive them in that case either).

The Noel ship has sailed, if it was ever at the docks to begin with.