Author Topic: I'm worried about Kyrie  (Read 11554 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2017, 02:13:16 PM »

Offline Snakehead

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6846
  • Tommy Points: 448
  IT's game is probably more effective than Kyrie's on a team that lacks a legitimate secondary scoring option.  Kyrie will never be able to get to the line like IT when all of the attention is focused on stopping him.  IT can carry a team without scoring help much further than Kyrie.

Thank you for pointing this out, because it's the biggest difference I noticed in the raw stats between IT and Kyrie. 

Getting to the free throw line 8-10 times a game was the biggest part of how Isaiah went from a 20-24 ppg type guy to a 30 ppg guy.

It's really hard to be a 28-30 ppg lead scoring option if you only get to the line 3-4 times a game; doesn't matter how efficient you are.

Exactly right.  It's important to acknowledge that their games are extremely different.  Kyrie has the potential to reach higher level IMO but it wont happen until the entire offensive system is functioning.  Nothing about this is black and white but we will still compare Kyrie to IT throughout this first season.

     

I agree with these posts so far watching Kyrie.  I do think that Kyrie can adapt and learn in this area.  You especially need to do this when you are the guy on a team (LeBron is maybe the best ever at doing this so it was going to be him on the Cavs).  It is a skill.

My friend and I developed an IT rule with IT where you don't complain or worry about his scoring because he would always claw his way to 20 at least, especially going to the line.  IT was excellent at getting to the line, so it's a high bar.  He maximized his quickness to draw fouls.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 02:19:14 PM by Snakehead »
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2017, 02:27:21 PM »

Online moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7639
  • Tommy Points: 441
I see a lot of people mentioning Kyrie's leadership.  He was never a leader, and may never be one.  I'm not sure leadership is 100% learnable.  Smart was a leader from day one, he didn't have to wait his turn on the team to lead or study another player to learn how to do it.  Just because Kyrie is an allstar level player and gifted scorer does not have anything to do with him being a leader.  He will give us 25pts per game with great ballhandling and shooting.  To expect anything more may be unreasonable.

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2017, 02:33:12 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2945
  • Tommy Points: 320
Kyrie Irving sucks. Give Rozier the starting PG position. Sit Horford for Baynes. Also I would fire Brad and give Micah Shrewsberry the keys to the kingdom.

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2017, 02:42:10 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7739
  • Tommy Points: 804
CBS will find a way to get Kyrie better looks when the team has time to find out what works for them. It's not like Kyrie is in the same system as we had last season, every starter surrounding IT4 gave him space to shoot/drive. The only player out there that is a 3pt shooter/maker is AH. Jaylen was solid last season but he wasn't the starter, the guys he is replacing were much better 3pt shooters. Kind of hard to have pace and space with a whole new team and a team full of guys who aren't proven in the NBA much less as 3pt shooters. AB & Jae (KO/JJoff the bench) were essentially 40% 3pt shooters. Amir was a threat even though he took far less (was good at shooting but it took to long). Now, besides AH name one player surrounding Kyrie that the opponent will be fearful of their 3pt shooting. I'm not even sure the opponents look at what is around Kyrie and are worried that any of them can shoot yet. Smart can't yet, JB can dunk and was okay from 3 last season, Tatum is a rookie, Roze is solid but inconsistent and unproven, Theis/Semi/Baynes/Nader/Yabu are either non 3pt shooters or unproven rookie shooters.


All this adds up to us needing to find an entirely new way for not only Kyrie to score/get open but for the young guys to find their way. I just don't know why people are judging this team from go when last season we struggled out of the gate with only Horford/JB being new and JB wasn't getting many minutes.


Really, this continues to boil down to how much people underrated the guys surrounding IT4.
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2017, 02:48:45 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42583
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDI7xv5ckc8

Reasons why Kyrie shot 7-25:

1) Hayward's injury

2) The actual game last night

3) First back to back, so he was tired

4) Milwaukee didn't have a game last night.

None of those things are incorrect, but an actual leader isn't out there making excuses for why he couldn't hit a shot when it mattered in a close game. I am worried about Kyrie, long term. I'm worried he doesn't know how to lead.

Such crap. I happen to have seen every interview after games over the last few seasons, with the way you see it we have never had a leader, especially if people considered IT4 or Jae one.

I don't believe you. Show me those videos where during a losing streak a guy blames everyone but himself. If you like that style of 'leading', cool. But don't tell me it's crap if you're not coming with anything besides your own expertise. I got some other good comments from last night:

Quote
RE: On being outplayed:

    “We gotta capitalize on a lot of mistakes we made tonight. We messed up on a lot of plays, and that can’t happen. We gotta be professional, we got to learn the plays or we won’t play.”

RE: On being a leader:

    “I gotta come off the bench and step up, and make sure the guys that are coming off the bench with me – make sure we’re on the same page. I told a couple guys it was my fault that we weren’t capitalizing on a lot of plays tonight. I gotta do a better job at making sure everybody is in the right position, and yelling out the plays.”

That's Terry Rozier. He gets it.


"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2017, 02:57:49 PM »

Offline __ramonezy__

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 523
  • Tommy Points: 62
Referring specifically to the OP, I'm worried about Kyrie as well.

Before he even got here he was talking about becoming a leader... the problem with that is that the Celtics had already established a culture and identity around the league that Kyrie has to learn  first and then he can lead once he's doing all the things the Celtic's culture promote.

Averaging the most points doesn't automatically make you the leader of a team...

I'm actually liking Horford's personality on the court now... it's very aggressive and a bit more chippy.

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2017, 03:05:14 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42583
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
I see a lot of people mentioning Kyrie's leadership.  He was never a leader, and may never be one.  I'm not sure leadership is 100% learnable.  Smart was a leader from day one, he didn't have to wait his turn on the team to lead or study another player to learn how to do it.  Just because Kyrie is an allstar level player and gifted scorer does not have anything to do with him being a leader.  He will give us 25pts per game with great ballhandling and shooting.  To expect anything more may be unreasonable.

This I kind of agree with. I'm not upset with him shooting 7-25, I'm not upset with him disappearing when it mattered most.

It's more in how he carried it, maybe he's just a moody millennial and that's how this is all gonna go, and Smart or Hayward or Morris will do all the talkin.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2017, 03:19:47 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7739
  • Tommy Points: 804
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDI7xv5ckc8

Reasons why Kyrie shot 7-25:

1) Hayward's injury

2) The actual game last night

3) First back to back, so he was tired

4) Milwaukee didn't have a game last night.

None of those things are incorrect, but an actual leader isn't out there making excuses for why he couldn't hit a shot when it mattered in a close game. I am worried about Kyrie, long term. I'm worried he doesn't know how to lead.

Such crap. I happen to have seen every interview after games over the last few seasons, with the way you see it we have never had a leader, especially if people considered IT4 or Jae one.

I don't believe you. Show me those videos where during a losing streak a guy blames everyone but himself. If you like that style of 'leading', cool. But don't tell me it's crap if you're not coming with anything besides your own expertise. I got some other good comments from last night:

Quote
RE: On being outplayed:

    “We gotta capitalize on a lot of mistakes we made tonight. We messed up on a lot of plays, and that can’t happen. We gotta be professional, we got to learn the plays or we won’t play.”

RE: On being a leader:

    “I gotta come off the bench and step up, and make sure the guys that are coming off the bench with me – make sure we’re on the same page. I told a couple guys it was my fault that we weren’t capitalizing on a lot of plays tonight. I gotta do a better job at making sure everybody is in the right position, and yelling out the plays.”

That's Terry Rozier. He gets it.


Lol go look for yourself! There are videos of Jae and IT4 blaming CBS! No, you guys didn't want to see it! There are other videos saying what Kyrie said about other guys needing to step up too! I'm not going through the hundreds of videos over the last 3 seasons, I don't care if you don't believe me, I know they said things.

When Tatum was out there playing tentative and like a rookie it was Kyrie who was coaching him up and talking to him before he started to calm down and find his way. Also there was video in both games of him on the sidelines trying to get things across to the other guys/coaching them up.

I love Terry and I already saw the video but thanks.

It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2017, 03:31:43 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42583
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
Lol go look for yourself! There are videos of Jae and IT4 blaming CBS! No, you guys didn't want to see it! There are other videos saying what Kyrie said about other guys needing to step up too! I'm not going through the hundreds of videos over the last 3 seasons, I don't care if you don't believe me, I know they said things.

Who? What? When?

Quote
When Tatum was out there playing tentative and like a rookie it was Kyrie who was coaching him up and talking to him before he started to calm down and find his way. Also there was video in both games of him on the sidelines trying to get things across to the other guys/coaching them up.

That's good, I'll look harder for that in the future.


Quote
I love Terry and I already saw the video but thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79DijItQXMM

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #84 on: October 19, 2017, 03:43:45 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9931
  • Tommy Points: 777
Lol go look for yourself! There are videos of Jae and IT4 blaming CBS! No, you guys didn't want to see it! There are other videos saying what Kyrie said about other guys needing to step up too! I'm not going through the hundreds of videos over the last 3 seasons, I don't care if you don't believe me, I know they said things.

Who? What? When?
Off the top of my head, I remember the time IT was blaming CBS, saying they were losing because he wasn't defining their roles clearly.

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #85 on: October 19, 2017, 04:08:30 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
Isaiah Thomas blaming Brad Stevens for tinkering with roles this deep into the season (65 games).

Worth noting that the final 2 minutes of the Suns loss that he attributed to Brad Stevens were some of the worst 2 minutes Id ever seen him play as we p---ed away a winnable game to the lowly suns because IT wanted to play hero ball and stick it to his old team.

"We should have won this game," Thomas said following the loss. "We should have won last night [at Phoenix]. We can't be experimenting in Game 63."

 When asked to elaborate, Thomas said, "You can watch film and you know what it is"

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-celtics/isaiah-thomas-harsh-words-boston-celtics-players-coaches-after-loss-to-los-angeles-clippers

Thomas and Crowder complained about set rotations often last year. Thomas also pointed blame towards officials in the playoffs and said after one game that coaches, players and everybody is to blame.

Leaders dont have to jump up to the podium and claim responsibility for every single loss. I felt Irving made reasonable comments. There is no good way to handle a bad night. The best way to handle it is to not have another one.

David Price was remarkably candid after his bad performances early on taking full responsibility for each one and it didnt win him any favor as a leader. Leaders perform on the field, not on the podium.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 04:14:50 PM by Ilikesports17 »
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #86 on: October 19, 2017, 06:07:09 PM »

Offline mrb617

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 32
  • Tommy Points: 6
Anyone who keeps saying they miss IT, blah blah blah, DO NOT FORGET he is out for MONTHS!! lol! Then he's a FA

Re: I'm worried about Kyrie
« Reply #87 on: October 19, 2017, 06:30:44 PM »

Offline Green-18

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1253
  • Tommy Points: 130
It's way too early to compare leadership between IT and Kyrie.  This is especially true because they are DIFFERENT.  IT is an emotional leader who carries a swagger that is contagious.  He relishes the opportunity to put the team on his back during close games.  Kyrie doesn't outwardly show the same characteristics but there is nothing wrong with that.  For all we know Kyrie will turn out to be instrumental in helping our young guys reach their full potential.  His willingness to adapt to CBS system will also set the tone for the rest of the team.  There are many different ways to show leadership and we need to give Kyrie time to find his groove. 

Anyone who wants similar leadership to IT should be looking straight towards Jaylen Brown.  He plays with a certain swagger and fearlessness that most players don't have.  Don't be surprised if he becomes the emotional leader within a few years.