Author Topic: Tony Allen's # to be retired....  (Read 5613 times)

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Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2017, 08:36:37 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I wouldn't call this desperate at all. It's just relative. The criteria for the Bulls to retire a jersery are different then the Grizzlies.

Also, the grizzlies have been around 23 seasons.  The first 8 seasons they were the worst team in the league followed by 3 winning seasons with  Pau Gasol followed by 4 more losing seasons after they traded him.  The first 15 seasons of this franchise's existence was downright terrible.

Then they signed Tony Allen.  Everything changed for the Grizz when Tony Allen, The Grindfather, stepped on the court wearing Memphis blue, and when he came up with his famous tag line "grit and grind" in a post game interview.  He did for them what KG did for us, (except the obvious ring).  They Grizz went on to have 7 good to very good consecutive seasons with multiple 50+ win seasons.

I applaud them for honoring defense, intangibles, leadership and hustle and this could open the doors a bit for Marcus to get his number retired here :)



Every franchise needs a foundation to build off of.... a culture to follow.  The Celtics has their, toughness and grit since the Bill Russell days.  Lakers have theirs, showtime, and that continues to today.

I think that is a major, major stretch there.

KG didn't only change the entire culture of the Celtics with his defensive impact, he was also the team's leading rebounder and took turns with Pierce/Allen carrying the team offensively.  He did everything for Boston.

Comparing KG to Tony Allen is an insult to Kevin Garnett, who remains (to this day) one of the greatest all-round players to ever play the game. 

Tony Allen is a defensive role player who was barely capable of contributing in any other way.   He was a negative offensive player  most of his career (neutral at best in his better years), couldn't defend, wasn't a skilled passer, didn't really do a whole lot on the boards - he was a master of one category.  He was essentially the Steve Kerr of the Grizzlies, since taking (and making) big threes was really the only thing Kerr was great at.

It's difficult to think of other guys who had a game like Tony Allen, who have had their jerseys retired.  Even Bruce Bowen isn't really comparable, because as dominant as he was defensively, he was also known for the number of huge game winning threes he made - for the Spurs he was like Tony Allen merged with Robert Horry. His ability to win games on both ends of the floor with his defence and clutch shooting (even if he wasn't a prolific volume scorer) make him a critical part of three Spurs championships.

Tony Allen has been a good one-dimensional player on a bunch of pretty-good-but-not-great teams.  The closest comparison to Tony Allen would probably by Tyson Chandler in Dallas, and even that isn't a fair comparison because Chandler didn't only drive Dallas' defence, he also controlled the boards and helped deliver them a title.

I can't even use Anthony Mason or Charles Oakley in NY as examples, because even those guys contributed in other areas aside from just defence. 

Can anybody here think of a muilt-time All Defensive teamer who literally could not do ANYTHING else at an above average level and never won a title, yet got his jersey retired?  Anybody?

Your entire reply is missing the whole point! You are comparing him to other players on other franchises when the criteria for retiring a number is different for each team.

Comparing what Tony Allen did for the culture of Memphis to what KG did for the Celtics is no insult at all. You act like I am saying Tony is as good as KG is... which im not. What Tony did for the Memphis Grizzlies, The Grindfather... Grit and Grind... its very similiar and very comparable to what KG brought the Celtics.  I dont see how that is insulting someone.  If I was wrong in my assessment then I don't think we would even be having this discussion. Clearly Tony has endeared himself to the Grizzlies fanbase and cemented his legacy there by installing a sense of identity the team can rely upon for years to come.

You come off as someone who has zero clue what Tony and the Grizzlies are all about.

I know very well what Tony and the Grizzlies are about, but thanks anyway for being ignorant enough to suggest that I'm the type of person to comment on something that I know nothing about. 

Tony Allen was never the KG of Memphis in any stretch of the imagination.  He never has been, and he never could be.  That's a dream. Tony Allen himself would probably feel insulted FOR Kevin Garnett, if he heard somebody compare him tot he great KG in any way, shape or form. 

A much more accurate comparison would be to say that Tony Allen was the Marcus Smart of Memphis. 

After Boston traded away the big three, they went into full rebuild mode.  They finished with a bottom 6 record in the NBA, and they looked like a hopeless team filled with soft players on a roster that lacked any clear identity. 

Then Danny Ainge selected Marcus Smart 6th overall in the NBA draft - Smart started at the PG spot for us as a rookie, and he immediately brought a new identity to Boston with his toughness, his defence, his energy and his physicality - with his "grit and grind", so to speak. 

That year Boston successfully made the playoffs in what would have to go down as one of the fastest and most dramatic "lottery to playoffs" turnarounds in NBA history, and I think it's clear to see that our young rookie Marcus Smart had a LOT to do with that. And all of those Boston fans who were dreading the thought of surviving through 4-5 years of lottery and mediocrity rejoiced, as suddenly we got to cheer again for a Boston team that played with a level of toughness and grit and passion that we could all be proud of.  The culture that Smart brought was infectious, and it impacted the team in a huge way - and has continued to do so since that day, which is why there are still a bunch of Celtics fans who absolutely worship Smart and wouldn't trade him even if it meant getting a superstar back.

Marcus Smart is, effectively, our Tony Allen.  Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley and Al Horford last season were, effectively, our Conley / Randolph / Gasol.  Looking at our team last season, how emotionally attached were the majority of Celtics fans to Smart, Thomas and Bradley especially?  How upset were so many of us (myself included) when Bradley and Thomas got traded out?  We'd be just as upset of Smart got traded out - even if we got a major stud back (like we did by getting Hayward and Kyrie for Bradley and Thomas) we'd still be upset to see him go. 

But if Smart somehow decided to retire today, would the Celtics retire his jersey?  I'm not sure, but probably not.  If Horford, Bradley, Thomas retired after last season?  More likely.   

And yes I understand that Memphis isn't Boston.  I get that they don't have the same storied history we do, and don't have a million numbers already retired like we do, and so the standards get set a little bit lower.  That goes without saying. I'm not really even arguing that they SHOULDN'T retire his jersey. All I'm saying is that Tony Allen's impact in Memphis was nothing like KG's impact here, and that I can't recall any players off the top of my head who have had their jerseys retired with teams after such a comparatively (relative to the type of contribution that USUALLY gets guys' jerseys retired) modest contribution. 

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2017, 04:24:23 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Its not all about the awards and championships. Celtics fans are really so entitled that they fail to appreciate these kinds of things. Memphis was a joke before these people came to the team. What they did for the franchise and the community-these are important. His value to their franchise is probably the same as the value of some of our retirees to ours.

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2017, 06:14:25 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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love TA but I think it speaks more to how desperate that franchise is to have someone/something recognized there than just about anywhere else.  what other franchise would retire his jersey for what he's accomplished?  if he's a huge contributor in the area that's great but not what I would think a jersey should be retired for.
At first in my brain I disagreed and thought "A franchise can definitely retire a beloved player's # who didn't achieve tons" and then I tried to think of examples and it was almost impossible to come up with players that didn't win a lot AND/OR didn't get lots of major awards.

Perk?

Dave Roberts?

Bill Buckner as an apology

Long snapper?

6x's All Defense doesn't count as a ton of awards?

If he averaged 20+ppg but was a sieve on D for 7 seasons nobody would bat an eye.
fair enough - using that standard you could make the argument that Bruce Bowen's jersey should be retired in SAS.   I don't think you'd find many people saying Bowen's should be retired.

as for scoring 20+ for 7 seasons - it'd still be a debate that depended on the player, what else they accomplished, what franchise and what the team accomplished with that player.

Bruce Bowen's number is retired. (Or was? He has since let LaMarcus Aldridge wear it), right next to the even less accomplished Avery Johnson's (but granted the argument changes a little when you actually win a ring).



Excluding all guys who won a ring or passed on while playing, I think you'll find a decent list of players who accomplished about as much as Tony Allen did (and this is focusing on just guys who played in the 90's and beyond):

Tony Allen, 6x All Defense, 56 playoff games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cavs, 2x All Star, 71 playoff games
Larry Nance, Cavs, 3x All Star, 3x All D, 41 playoff games
Tim Hardaway, Heat, 2x All Star, 3x All NBA, 39 playoff games
Dan Majerle, Suns, 3x All Star, 2x All D, 83 playoff games
Terry Porter, Blazers, 2x All Star, 84 playoff games
Vlade Divac, Kings, 1x All Star, 58 playoff games
Nate McMillian, Sonics, 2x All D, 98 playoff games
Jeff Hornacek, Jazz, 100 playoff games

I think the championship-clinching shot in Game 5 that Avery Johnson hit is saying he deserves it.

To be fair to Avery Johnson, Tony Allen has only averaged 10+ PPG once in his entire NBA career...and he did that in one of his earlier seasons with Boston in a small sample size (he only played 33 games that year).  His scoring peaked at 9.8 PPG for Memphis in 2011/12.

Avery Johnson didn't only hit a championship winning shot AND play hard defence, but he also averaged 12 points and 8 assists over his first four seasons in San Antonio while also always shooting close to 50% from the field. He was never a star, but he was a legit starting calibre PG who was a top shelf passer and who could also contribute a little offensive and from what I recall he played pretty hard on defence too.
That and he was a really nice and likable guy. That probably helped too.
Peace through Tyranny

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2017, 06:45:22 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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Why people are complaining about it? We have guys like KC Jones, Don Nelson, Satch Sanders, Locsy and Cornbread retired when they aren't even superstars over the likes of Westphal, Paul Silas and Bill Walton. And Grizzlies ain't that fortunate to win any banner despite being competitive.

Lakers on the other hand, have no respect for their role players. You won't see Michael Cooper, Kurt Rambis, Rick Fox and Derek Fisher's jersey retired on their rafters, aside from their superstar players.

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2017, 06:21:01 PM »

Offline ConnerHenry

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How does this differ than "Loscy" hanging in the rafters?

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2017, 07:47:51 PM »

Offline greg683x

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I wouldn't call this desperate at all. It's just relative. The criteria for the Bulls to retire a jersery are different then the Grizzlies.

Also, the grizzlies have been around 23 seasons.  The first 8 seasons they were the worst team in the league followed by 3 winning seasons with  Pau Gasol followed by 4 more losing seasons after they traded him.  The first 15 seasons of this franchise's existence was downright terrible.

Then they signed Tony Allen.  Everything changed for the Grizz when Tony Allen, The Grindfather, stepped on the court wearing Memphis blue, and when he came up with his famous tag line "grit and grind" in a post game interview.  He did for them what KG did for us, (except the obvious ring).  They Grizz went on to have 7 good to very good consecutive seasons with multiple 50+ win seasons.

I applaud them for honoring defense, intangibles, leadership and hustle and this could open the doors a bit for Marcus to get his number retired here :)



Every franchise needs a foundation to build off of.... a culture to follow.  The Celtics has their, toughness and grit since the Bill Russell days.  Lakers have theirs, showtime, and that continues to today.

I think that is a major, major stretch there.

KG didn't only change the entire culture of the Celtics with his defensive impact, he was also the team's leading rebounder and took turns with Pierce/Allen carrying the team offensively.  He did everything for Boston.

Comparing KG to Tony Allen is an insult to Kevin Garnett, who remains (to this day) one of the greatest all-round players to ever play the game. 

Tony Allen is a defensive role player who was barely capable of contributing in any other way.   He was a negative offensive player  most of his career (neutral at best in his better years), couldn't defend, wasn't a skilled passer, didn't really do a whole lot on the boards - he was a master of one category.  He was essentially the Steve Kerr of the Grizzlies, since taking (and making) big threes was really the only thing Kerr was great at.

It's difficult to think of other guys who had a game like Tony Allen, who have had their jerseys retired.  Even Bruce Bowen isn't really comparable, because as dominant as he was defensively, he was also known for the number of huge game winning threes he made - for the Spurs he was like Tony Allen merged with Robert Horry. His ability to win games on both ends of the floor with his defence and clutch shooting (even if he wasn't a prolific volume scorer) make him a critical part of three Spurs championships.

Tony Allen has been a good one-dimensional player on a bunch of pretty-good-but-not-great teams.  The closest comparison to Tony Allen would probably by Tyson Chandler in Dallas, and even that isn't a fair comparison because Chandler didn't only drive Dallas' defence, he also controlled the boards and helped deliver them a title.

I can't even use Anthony Mason or Charles Oakley in NY as examples, because even those guys contributed in other areas aside from just defence. 

Can anybody here think of a muilt-time All Defensive teamer who literally could not do ANYTHING else at an above average level and never won a title, yet got his jersey retired?  Anybody?

Nate McMillan had his jersey retired by the Sonics.

Tony Allen has better stats than he does and has been All NBA defense more than he has.

Somebody posted this earlier before you went on your rant, theres even other players on that list that are comparable
Greg

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2017, 08:14:49 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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love TA but I think it speaks more to how desperate that franchise is to have someone/something recognized there than just about anywhere else.  what other franchise would retire his jersey for what he's accomplished?  if he's a huge contributor in the area that's great but not what I would think a jersey should be retired for.
At first in my brain I disagreed and thought "A franchise can definitely retire a beloved player's # who didn't achieve tons" and then I tried to think of examples and it was almost impossible to come up with players that didn't win a lot AND/OR didn't get lots of major awards.

Perk?

Dave Roberts?

Bill Buckner as an apology

Long snapper?

6x's All Defense doesn't count as a ton of awards?

If he averaged 20+ppg but was a sieve on D for 7 seasons nobody would bat an eye.
fair enough - using that standard you could make the argument that Bruce Bowen's jersey should be retired in SAS.   I don't think you'd find many people saying Bowen's should be retired.

as for scoring 20+ for 7 seasons - it'd still be a debate that depended on the player, what else they accomplished, what franchise and what the team accomplished with that player.

Bruce Bowen's number is retired. (Or was? He has since let LaMarcus Aldridge wear it), right next to the even less accomplished Avery Johnson's (but granted the argument changes a little when you actually win a ring).



Excluding all guys who won a ring or passed on while playing, I think you'll find a decent list of players who accomplished about as much as Tony Allen did (and this is focusing on just guys who played in the 90's and beyond):

Tony Allen, 6x All Defense, 56 playoff games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cavs, 2x All Star, 71 playoff games
Larry Nance, Cavs, 3x All Star, 3x All D, 41 playoff games
Tim Hardaway, Heat, 2x All Star, 3x All NBA, 39 playoff games
Dan Majerle, Suns, 3x All Star, 2x All D, 83 playoff games
Terry Porter, Blazers, 2x All Star, 84 playoff games
Vlade Divac, Kings, 1x All Star, 58 playoff games
Nate McMillian, Sonics, 2x All D, 98 playoff games
Jeff Hornacek, Jazz, 100 playoff games

fair enough - that one's on me.  I found that the number was still being used -- didn't realize it had been retired then activated.  does that take away from the honor a bit?

on that list of players, I'd consider them all better than TA.  some much better than TA.

I like TA.  loved the hustle he played with when he was with the C's and was sorry to see him go.  I just don't see him as someone that would have a number retired.  if it happens, good for him.

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2017, 08:30:45 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I wouldn't call this desperate at all. It's just relative. The criteria for the Bulls to retire a jersery are different then the Grizzlies.

Also, the grizzlies have been around 23 seasons.  The first 8 seasons they were the worst team in the league followed by 3 winning seasons with  Pau Gasol followed by 4 more losing seasons after they traded him.  The first 15 seasons of this franchise's existence was downright terrible.

Then they signed Tony Allen.  Everything changed for the Grizz when Tony Allen, The Grindfather, stepped on the court wearing Memphis blue, and when he came up with his famous tag line "grit and grind" in a post game interview.  He did for them what KG did for us, (except the obvious ring).  They Grizz went on to have 7 good to very good consecutive seasons with multiple 50+ win seasons.

I applaud them for honoring defense, intangibles, leadership and hustle and this could open the doors a bit for Marcus to get his number retired here :)



Every franchise needs a foundation to build off of.... a culture to follow.  The Celtics has their, toughness and grit since the Bill Russell days.  Lakers have theirs, showtime, and that continues to today.

I think that is a major, major stretch there.

KG didn't only change the entire culture of the Celtics with his defensive impact, he was also the team's leading rebounder and took turns with Pierce/Allen carrying the team offensively.  He did everything for Boston.

Comparing KG to Tony Allen is an insult to Kevin Garnett, who remains (to this day) one of the greatest all-round players to ever play the game. 

Tony Allen is a defensive role player who was barely capable of contributing in any other way.   He was a negative offensive player  most of his career (neutral at best in his better years), couldn't defend, wasn't a skilled passer, didn't really do a whole lot on the boards - he was a master of one category.  He was essentially the Steve Kerr of the Grizzlies, since taking (and making) big threes was really the only thing Kerr was great at.

It's difficult to think of other guys who had a game like Tony Allen, who have had their jerseys retired.  Even Bruce Bowen isn't really comparable, because as dominant as he was defensively, he was also known for the number of huge game winning threes he made - for the Spurs he was like Tony Allen merged with Robert Horry. His ability to win games on both ends of the floor with his defence and clutch shooting (even if he wasn't a prolific volume scorer) make him a critical part of three Spurs championships.

Tony Allen has been a good one-dimensional player on a bunch of pretty-good-but-not-great teams.  The closest comparison to Tony Allen would probably by Tyson Chandler in Dallas, and even that isn't a fair comparison because Chandler didn't only drive Dallas' defence, he also controlled the boards and helped deliver them a title.

I can't even use Anthony Mason or Charles Oakley in NY as examples, because even those guys contributed in other areas aside from just defence. 

Can anybody here think of a muilt-time All Defensive teamer who literally could not do ANYTHING else at an above average level and never won a title, yet got his jersey retired?  Anybody?

Nate McMillan had his jersey retired by the Sonics.

Tony Allen has better stats than he does and has been All NBA defense more than he has.

Somebody posted this earlier before you went on your rant, theres even other players on that list that are comparable

I said somebody who was a multi-time all defensive player who didn't do ANYTHING else at an above average level.

Nate McMillan averaged 8.6 Assists Per 36 over his career and shot a somewhat respectable 34% from three.   He may not have been much of a scorer, but he was at least useful on offense with his playmaking and with his ability to hit outside shots with some degree of competence.

Tony Allen was a significant offensive liability on the floor for the vast majority of his career, across the board. There was not a single thing he did well on the offensive end.  He might well be THE most one dimensional player to ever have his jersey retired by a team.  Even when I think of other past players who were highly Celebrated for their defence - most of those guys were excellent in at least one other area.  Rodman, Russel and Ben Wallace for example, were also elite rebounders. 

Again, I'm not actually saying his jersey shouldn't be retired - I'm just saying that it's a bit of an unusual choice.  If they were to retire Shareef Abdul Rahim, Rudy Gay or Mike Bibby, I'd totally understand it.  Obviously I would understand Conley, Gasol and Randolph. 

But Tony Allen?  Are they going to retire Shane Battier's jersey too? It seems odd that they would retire Allen's and not Battier's. 

Again it's totally up to them what jersey's they do/don't want to retire, it's just an odd choice to retire the jersey of a role player on a team that honestly was never really seen as a legitimate contender in their entire time together.  I understand retiring the jersey of a role player who had a key role on a team that won a title, or went to multiple finals appearances...but did those Grizzlies even make the WCF in their entire run together?


Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2017, 08:36:12 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Somebody posted this earlier before you went on your rant, theres even other players on that list that are comparable

Other players on that list that are comparable?  Really?

I see a list that features names like Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Tim Hardaway, Dan Majerlie, Vlade Divac, Terry Porter, Larry Nance, Jeff Hornacek - my god, those guys were leaps and bounds above Tony Allen as players. It's not even remotely comparable.

The only guy on that list that is even close to comparable to Allen is Nate McMillan, and he was not only a much more skilled offensive player (an excellent passer and somewhat passable outside shooter) but IIRC he also played on a pretty elite Sonics team that went to the NBA finals. 

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2017, 09:37:46 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Its not all about the awards and championships. Celtics fans are really so entitled that they fail to appreciate these kinds of things. Memphis was a joke before these people came to the team. What they did for the franchise and the community-these are important. His value to their franchise is probably the same as the value of some of our retirees to ours.
What did Tony Allen do for the Memphis community?

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2017, 10:39:17 PM »

Offline miraclejohan

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Congrats to Tony! Must have eaten a lot of salmon and mashed potatoes in Memphis!

Yes!  TP for that throwback.  Tony deserves any/everything.
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Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2017, 10:56:25 PM »

Offline miraclejohan

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I wouldn't call this desperate at all. It's just relative. The criteria for the Bulls to retire a jersery are different then the Grizzlies.

Also, the grizzlies have been around 23 seasons.  The first 8 seasons they were the worst team in the league followed by 3 winning seasons with  Pau Gasol followed by 4 more losing seasons after they traded him.  The first 15 seasons of this franchise's existence was downright terrible.

Then they signed Tony Allen.  Everything changed for the Grizz when Tony Allen, The Grindfather, stepped on the court wearing Memphis blue, and when he came up with his famous tag line "grit and grind" in a post game interview.  He did for them what KG did for us, (except the obvious ring).  They Grizz went on to have 7 good to very good consecutive seasons with multiple 50+ win seasons.

I applaud them for honoring defense, intangibles, leadership and hustle and this could open the doors a bit for Marcus to get his number retired here :)



Every franchise needs a foundation to build off of.... a culture to follow.  The Celtics has their, toughness and grit since the Bill Russell days.  Lakers have theirs, showtime, and that continues to today.

I think that is a major, major stretch there.

KG didn't only change the entire culture of the Celtics with his defensive impact, he was also the team's leading rebounder and took turns with Pierce/Allen carrying the team offensively.  He did everything for Boston.

Comparing KG to Tony Allen is an insult to Kevin Garnett, who remains (to this day) one of the greatest all-round players to ever play the game. 

Tony Allen is a defensive role player who was barely capable of contributing in any other way.   He was a negative offensive player  most of his career (neutral at best in his better years), couldn't defend, wasn't a skilled passer, didn't really do a whole lot on the boards - he was a master of one category.  He was essentially the Steve Kerr of the Grizzlies, since taking (and making) big threes was really the only thing Kerr was great at.

It's difficult to think of other guys who had a game like Tony Allen, who have had their jerseys retired.  Even Bruce Bowen isn't really comparable, because as dominant as he was defensively, he was also known for the number of huge game winning threes he made - for the Spurs he was like Tony Allen merged with Robert Horry. His ability to win games on both ends of the floor with his defence and clutch shooting (even if he wasn't a prolific volume scorer) make him a critical part of three Spurs championships.

Tony Allen has been a good one-dimensional player on a bunch of pretty-good-but-not-great teams.  The closest comparison to Tony Allen would probably by Tyson Chandler in Dallas, and even that isn't a fair comparison because Chandler didn't only drive Dallas' defence, he also controlled the boards and helped deliver them a title.

I can't even use Anthony Mason or Charles Oakley in NY as examples, because even those guys contributed in other areas aside from just defence. 

Can anybody here think of a muilt-time All Defensive teamer who literally could not do ANYTHING else at an above average level and never won a title, yet got his jersey retired?  Anybody?

Your entire reply is missing the whole point! You are comparing him to other players on other franchises when the criteria for retiring a number is different for each team.

Comparing what Tony Allen did for the culture of Memphis to what KG did for the Celtics is no insult at all. You act like I am saying Tony is as good as KG is... which im not. What Tony did for the Memphis Grizzlies, The Grindfather... Grit and Grind... its very similiar and very comparable to what KG brought the Celtics.  I dont see how that is insulting someone.  If I was wrong in my assessment then I don't think we would even be having this discussion. Clearly Tony has endeared himself to the Grizzlies fanbase and cemented his legacy there by installing a sense of identity the team can rely upon for years to come.

You come off as someone who has zero clue what Tony and the Grizzlies are all about.

I know very well what Tony and the Grizzlies are about, but thanks anyway for being ignorant enough to suggest that I'm the type of person to comment on something that I know nothing about. 

Tony Allen was never the KG of Memphis in any stretch of the imagination.  He never has been, and he never could be.  That's a dream. Tony Allen himself would probably feel insulted FOR Kevin Garnett, if he heard somebody compare him tot he great KG in any way, shape or form. 

A much more accurate comparison would be to say that Tony Allen was the Marcus Smart of Memphis. 

After Boston traded away the big three, they went into full rebuild mode.  They finished with a bottom 6 record in the NBA, and they looked like a hopeless team filled with soft players on a roster that lacked any clear identity. 

Then Danny Ainge selected Marcus Smart 6th overall in the NBA draft - Smart started at the PG spot for us as a rookie, and he immediately brought a new identity to Boston with his toughness, his defence, his energy and his physicality - with his "grit and grind", so to speak. 

That year Boston successfully made the playoffs in what would have to go down as one of the fastest and most dramatic "lottery to playoffs" turnarounds in NBA history, and I think it's clear to see that our young rookie Marcus Smart had a LOT to do with that. And all of those Boston fans who were dreading the thought of surviving through 4-5 years of lottery and mediocrity rejoiced, as suddenly we got to cheer again for a Boston team that played with a level of toughness and grit and passion that we could all be proud of.  The culture that Smart brought was infectious, and it impacted the team in a huge way - and has continued to do so since that day, which is why there are still a bunch of Celtics fans who absolutely worship Smart and wouldn't trade him even if it meant getting a superstar back.

Marcus Smart is, effectively, our Tony Allen.  Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley and Al Horford last season were, effectively, our Conley / Randolph / Gasol.  Looking at our team last season, how emotionally attached were the majority of Celtics fans to Smart, Thomas and Bradley especially?  How upset were so many of us (myself included) when Bradley and Thomas got traded out?  We'd be just as upset of Smart got traded out - even if we got a major stud back (like we did by getting Hayward and Kyrie for Bradley and Thomas) we'd still be upset to see him go. 

But if Smart somehow decided to retire today, would the Celtics retire his jersey?  I'm not sure, but probably not.  If Horford, Bradley, Thomas retired after last season?  More likely.   

And yes I understand that Memphis isn't Boston.  I get that they don't have the same storied history we do, and don't have a million numbers already retired like we do, and so the standards get set a little bit lower.  That goes without saying. I'm not really even arguing that they SHOULDN'T retire his jersey. All I'm saying is that Tony Allen's impact in Memphis was nothing like KG's impact here, and that I can't recall any players off the top of my head who have had their jerseys retired with teams after such a comparatively (relative to the type of contribution that USUALLY gets guys' jerseys retired) modest contribution.

Crimson Stallion, just stop.  #1 TA couldn't have been MEM's KG because they didn't have a Pierce (Gay? Conley?) and never signed an Allen (Miller?  Gay?). 

To your Marcus point, let's not live this one down: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2016/02/27/kobe-bryant-tony-allen-best-defender-ever-faced/81030728/ Sorry it mentions Kobe, but the fact that someone consistently in the conversation for top 5 player of all time says TA is the best defender makes me add a little credence to what we witness from the couch or this bottom of the bag of chips. TA was a better defender in his prime than Marcus.

Is it at all possible that the storied franchise of Boston and the legends that have graced our team (and retired ALL of our numbers....26?  46?   99?  Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.) have skewed your perception?  In all sincerity....
Green 17 vol. 1-4  available here: https://miraclejohan.bandcamp.com/

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2017, 09:35:58 PM »

Offline bdm860

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This is the reaction Tony Allen got tonight with his return to Memphis:

https://streamable.com/2gzbk

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class