Author Topic: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis  (Read 3521 times)

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Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2017, 10:26:15 AM »

Offline PaulAllen

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If NO ever decides to trade Davis they will be in total rebuild mode.. That saying Cleveland has no shot and Boston would have to pay a huge price to get him..

It would cost the top pick, Tatum, Brown, Smart, and Memphis pick..

tough pill to swallow but its a similar deal the Celts made years ago for KG ..

Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2017, 10:42:52 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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If NO ever decides to trade Davis they will be in total rebuild mode.. That saying Cleveland has no shot and Boston would have to pay a huge price to get him..

It would cost the top pick, Tatum, Brown, Smart, and Memphis pick..

tough pill to swallow but its a similar deal the Celts made years ago for KG ..

That's not remotely close to what we gave Minny for KG. Besides, why would we give up so much? Who are we bidding against that we have to trade away that much to up their offer?

Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2017, 10:49:55 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Phantom my man... I appreciate the threads but this one is just really bad, specifically for the Kevin Love point that people have already made. Pelicans trading AD means they're blowing it up. They're going to want 3 top tier young assets/trades. Cavs have 1 in the pick. Love is actually a negative asset for a team that just blew up. He would be figurative cap filler.
The Pelicans have a lot of bad contracts though, that could be swapped for Kevin Love, actually making him a net positive to the trade.  Asik, Hill, and Moore are all awful contracts for a rebuilding team.  I'd much rather have Kevin Love than those 3 guys (as an example).

Okay, but that really doesn't help them much either. Cleveland only goes after Davis if they still have Lebron and are trying to win, and if you are trying to win you don't take on huge dead salary because that caps your ability to build  team (Dan Gilbert isn't gonna pay luxury tax to keep Asik around). If Cleveland loses Lebron they aren't going after Davis, they'd be in the same situation as the Pelicans with an awful roster and a guy they cant build a team around. I get why people may mention Davis as a target for Clevland, but there doesn't seem to be a scenario where it even makes sense for them to try. Even IF they did, the Celtics offer of multiple young players and god picks still probably beats the Cavs ability to take on salary because honestly, what will the Pelicans do with Cap Space and a god awful team? More valuable to get young guys and eat the salary.

Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2017, 11:01:06 AM »

Offline Erik

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Phantom my man... I appreciate the threads but this one is just really bad, specifically for the Kevin Love point that people have already made. Pelicans trading AD means they're blowing it up. They're going to want 3 top tier young assets/trades. Cavs have 1 in the pick. Love is actually a negative asset for a team that just blew up. He would be figurative cap filler.
The Pelicans have a lot of bad contracts though, that could be swapped for Kevin Love, actually making him a net positive to the trade.  Asik, Hill, and Moore are all awful contracts for a rebuilding team.  I'd much rather have Kevin Love than those 3 guys (as an example).




Would you give up a future hall of famer for it when the Celtics could take your bad contract and give a similar lotto pick plus smart and one of Tatum or brown? Something that you can actually build around ? Put another way, would you rather have 30 million in Kevin love or 30 million in 3 top prospects? Love will just walk or get old. He's just a waste of cap space for a team who won't make the playoffs for 5 years.
Davis, Hill, Asik, and Moore make just over 55 million this year.  That is a lot of salary to acquire.  For Boston to acquire Davis and those contracts, Boston would have to trade at least Horford along with Tatum, Brown, Morris, and LAL (post trade as you need the salary - this summer Boston can't trade Smart).  Does Boston still want to do that?  I might still do that if I'm Boston, but that trade becomes a lot more costly to do and Love is certainly more valuable than Horford going forward. 

The Cavs on the other hand have a lot of extra salary.  Love, Shumpert, Smith is enough salary to acquire all 4 of the NO players (that assumes Shumpert takes his player option before the trade).  Cleveland could then add in whatever draft picks or young players that New Orleans wants.  Cleveland also can work the trade so many different ways with Thompson and Crowder.  Heck, Cleveland could even take on Holiday (if New Orleans was looking to move on fully). 

Boston certainly can put together a more attractive package than the Cavs for just Davis, but there is a lot of extra value to New Orleans in dumping all those other unattractive contracts if they are moving on from Davis and in that Boston would struggle a great deal coming up with a better package.

The Sixers are also a real problem in any sort of major trade as they have a lot of attractive assets and can take on salary next summer as they are under the cap (even with the Embiid signing).  The Lakers also have young player assets and cap room.

I didn't mean to say that we'd give them Tatum, LAL18, Smart + absorb ALL of their bad contract.

A fair deal would be something like this:
BOS:
Davis, E. Moore

PELS:
Tatum, LAL18, Smart (estimating him at 15-20 mil/yr extension), M. Morris + whatever filler

That would give the Pelicans some cap relief (Morris has a good contract), Marcus Smart, Tatum, and a good lottery pick. Everything they'd need to begin the rebuild.

Just because they have Hill and Asik on contract for another 2 years (after this season) doesn't mean anything. They need to get over the cap minimum anyways (I'm assuming Cousins walks in FA in this scenario).

This is much better than anything the Cavs can do.


Having said that, I'd rather wait til he's a free agent, sign Horford to a vet minimum (please Al!!) and recruit him for free. But if Pelicans agree to the above trade (they won't), you gotta pull the trigger.

Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2017, 11:04:22 AM »

Online celticsclay

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I can't believe how many comments got this thread got. If we really really want Davis and will give up whatever it takes to get him, Cleveland isn't even in the ballpark to compete with that. If pelicans wanted young players and picks the cavs are the oldest team in the league with one projected lottery pick. If they want young players with upside we have smart, brown, Tatum, rosier and other guys worth taking a flier on. If they wanted established stars we have kyrie (who the league just had half the teams try to trade for) and Hayward. The cavs have an injured expiring guard that wants less money, a 33 year old superstar that will test free agency, aincient role players and Love who Lowe has commented has very low value around the league. I actually think there is a chance the Cavs are the WORST trading partner for a guy like Davis in the league. At a minimum they are bottom 5. I am really baffled by this thread...

Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2017, 11:18:14 AM »

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Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2017, 11:20:17 AM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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If the LAL are loosing and their pick looks to transfer Danny wont make a move for AD.  yeah he's great but were are about to be a super team.  Tatum looks for real and hopefully is still growing. If he grows an inch he's PG13 on the cheep.  IF he grows two inches to 6'10 look out NBA, but even at 6'8 and a few more pounds of mussel he can handle the 4 spot.  Brown is looking to be a Jimmy butler clone.  With pick 2-5 we can most likely get one of Ayton, Bagley, or Bamba, that's a franchise center and legit rim protector.  We're rolling out a pretty awesome team this year and that LAL pick will definitively close the rebuild and leave us with a seriously nasty starting 5:
PG:  Irving 6'3
SG:  Brown 6'7
SF:  Hayward 6'8
PF:  Tatum 6'9 (lets say he grows an inch, plus he looks more like 6'9 than 6'8 right now anyway)
 C:  Ayton 7'0 (260lbs beast! and can shoot the 3)

That starting five would move the ball so well and create crazy space as all five can stroke the three and create their own shot.  In that lineup Brown would probably being the worst shooter on the floor and he's not really all that bad.  We don't need to trade for AD we can draft him or a close facsimile next year.  Even if we need to take the Kings pick in 2019, that pick plus our three other 2019 firsts could get us Bol Bol, who is showing a 3 point stroke.   AD is great but we don't need him. 

Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2017, 11:42:14 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Firstly, NOP have no reason to trade AD for at least another year and a half. They have way too much time left on his contract to try and make things work.

Whenever he may go on the market, have a think about what recent superstars went for and that'll be your range. You'll find that there are always 3-4 teams that have a similar offer because noone will offer the farm for one player. No team is as fixated on an individual player like fans are.

Ultimately if a trade ever happened, NOP will choose the package they see as best. That could be a complete rebuild package or one that keeps them semi competitive, it'll totally depending on their GM/Owner situation at the time. Let's put it this way, if AD is on the trade block, Dell Demps is already long gone and the new GM has found no way to improve the team. Until Demps is gone, fans are living on a cloud thinking AD is going to be traded...

Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2017, 12:00:33 PM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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if the Pelicans move him they are the worst run franchise in NBA history. There is 0 return you could receive where you win the trade.

Why would they move him? I got boxes of cereal in my cabinet old than him.

They could start a rebuild today and he's still young enough to come out the other side still in peak prime age of 26-27.

I'll be honest not even sure how this has been a rumor for so long unless we are hoping to channel our inner Lavar and speak it into existence.


Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2017, 12:22:06 PM »

Offline snively

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And Golden State is not trading Draymond and Klay for Davis lol. Thatís one of the more ridiculous things Iíve heard in a while.

I see it as a situation where GSW where might need to breakup their four main guys. Everybody is happy now but money (need to take less to keep team together) or desire to be the #1 man on their own team (Klay, Draymond) might break them up at some point.

If GSW sees the writing on the walls 12-24 months down the line, that someone wants to leave -- then trading two of those guys to get a 3rd MVP caliber talent to put alongside Steph and Durant is an attractive proposition.

Hard to keep everybody happy there long term.

As a devil's advocate it's hard NOT to be happy when you keep winning championships.

Wasn't there a report that Kyrie wanted to be traded right after the Cavs won?
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Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2017, 12:42:51 PM »

Online Moranis

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Phantom my man... I appreciate the threads but this one is just really bad, specifically for the Kevin Love point that people have already made. Pelicans trading AD means they're blowing it up. They're going to want 3 top tier young assets/trades. Cavs have 1 in the pick. Love is actually a negative asset for a team that just blew up. He would be figurative cap filler.
The Pelicans have a lot of bad contracts though, that could be swapped for Kevin Love, actually making him a net positive to the trade.  Asik, Hill, and Moore are all awful contracts for a rebuilding team.  I'd much rather have Kevin Love than those 3 guys (as an example).




Would you give up a future hall of famer for it when the Celtics could take your bad contract and give a similar lotto pick plus smart and one of Tatum or brown? Something that you can actually build around ? Put another way, would you rather have 30 million in Kevin love or 30 million in 3 top prospects? Love will just walk or get old. He's just a waste of cap space for a team who won't make the playoffs for 5 years.
Davis, Hill, Asik, and Moore make just over 55 million this year.  That is a lot of salary to acquire.  For Boston to acquire Davis and those contracts, Boston would have to trade at least Horford along with Tatum, Brown, Morris, and LAL (post trade as you need the salary - this summer Boston can't trade Smart).  Does Boston still want to do that?  I might still do that if I'm Boston, but that trade becomes a lot more costly to do and Love is certainly more valuable than Horford going forward. 

The Cavs on the other hand have a lot of extra salary.  Love, Shumpert, Smith is enough salary to acquire all 4 of the NO players (that assumes Shumpert takes his player option before the trade).  Cleveland could then add in whatever draft picks or young players that New Orleans wants.  Cleveland also can work the trade so many different ways with Thompson and Crowder.  Heck, Cleveland could even take on Holiday (if New Orleans was looking to move on fully). 

Boston certainly can put together a more attractive package than the Cavs for just Davis, but there is a lot of extra value to New Orleans in dumping all those other unattractive contracts if they are moving on from Davis and in that Boston would struggle a great deal coming up with a better package.

The Sixers are also a real problem in any sort of major trade as they have a lot of attractive assets and can take on salary next summer as they are under the cap (even with the Embiid signing).  The Lakers also have young player assets and cap room.

I didn't mean to say that we'd give them Tatum, LAL18, Smart + absorb ALL of their bad contract.

A fair deal would be something like this:
BOS:
Davis, E. Moore

PELS:
Tatum, LAL18, Smart (estimating him at 15-20 mil/yr extension), M. Morris + whatever filler

That would give the Pelicans some cap relief (Morris has a good contract), Marcus Smart, Tatum, and a good lottery pick. Everything they'd need to begin the rebuild.

Just because they have Hill and Asik on contract for another 2 years (after this season) doesn't mean anything. They need to get over the cap minimum anyways (I'm assuming Cousins walks in FA in this scenario).

This is much better than anything the Cavs can do.


Having said that, I'd rather wait til he's a free agent, sign Horford to a vet minimum (please Al!!) and recruit him for free. But if Pelicans agree to the above trade (they won't), you gotta pull the trigger.
Boston can't really trade Smart next summer at all and Boston has no other filler.  That is the point I was making.  Boston can only acquire Davis without also trading Horford.  New Orleans might very well do that, but I suspect if New Orleans is tanking they are going to want to move the bad contracts they have and there is a real value in that.
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Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2017, 01:16:02 PM »

Offline Erik

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Boston can't really trade Smart next summer at all and Boston has no other filler.  That is the point I was making.  Boston can only acquire Davis without also trading Horford.  New Orleans might very well do that, but I suspect if New Orleans is tanking they are going to want to move the bad contracts they have and there is a real value in that.

Can you please explain to me why Boston can't trade Smart after extending him to $15-20 mil/yr? He's worth the money (it's a valuable asset). I mean I love Smart more than most... but  he's not the reason I turn down Anthony Davis.

Also please explain what's the big deal of overpaying Asik for 2 years while you navigate the lottery and develop Tatum/Smart/Picks? Sorry, but you are making it sound like there are a bunch of great young talent that NOP could sign if only Asik isn't eating up cap space.

For the NOP to make this deal, they're targetting something like 2023 when Smart is 29 and Tatum, LAL18, NOP18, NOP19 are all about 25/26. At that point, really... who cares about Omer Asik's $10 million salary for a few years? We didn't care about Gerald Wallace stinking it up for about the same money. When you're a bottom feeder, you don't mind taking on garbage contracts for future assets because you're tanking.

BTW the filler I mentioned was based on the fact that I don't know what Smart's extended contract could be. If I'm off a mil or two, you could throw in Semi or something.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 01:24:43 PM by Erik »

Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2017, 01:35:18 PM »

Online Big333223

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I can't believe how many comments got this thread got. If we really really want Davis and will give up whatever it takes to get him, Cleveland isn't even in the ballpark to compete with that. If pelicans wanted young players and picks the cavs are the oldest team in the league with one projected lottery pick. If they want young players with upside we have smart, brown, Tatum, rosier and other guys worth taking a flier on. If they wanted established stars we have kyrie (who the league just had half the teams try to trade for) and Hayward. The cavs have an injured expiring guard that wants less money, a 33 year old superstar that will test free agency, aincient role players and Love who Lowe has commented has very low value around the league. I actually think there is a chance the Cavs are the WORST trading partner for a guy like Davis in the league. At a minimum they are bottom 5. I am really baffled by this thread...
This, basically. The only thing the Cavs have that might interest New Orleans is the Nets pick. I don't know what the Celtics would want to give up but in a "potential bidding war" the Celtics have a lot more assets (in both young players and in picks) than Cleveland.

Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2017, 01:39:19 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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And we can offer TWO 1st round picks, Tatum and Brown.

If New Orleans is going for a rebuild, what better way to do it than acquire two high potential kids on rookie deals and two 1st rounders, one of them could be in the top 5 in either 2018 or 2019.

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Re: Cavaliers May Beat Us In A Potential Bidding War For Anthony Davis
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2017, 01:48:27 PM »

Online Moranis

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Boston can't really trade Smart next summer at all and Boston has no other filler.  That is the point I was making.  Boston can only acquire Davis without also trading Horford.  New Orleans might very well do that, but I suspect if New Orleans is tanking they are going to want to move the bad contracts they have and there is a real value in that.

Can you please explain to me why Boston can't trade Smart after extending him to $15-20 mil/yr? He's worth the money (it's a valuable asset). I mean I love Smart more than most... but  he's not the reason I turn down Anthony Davis.

Also please explain what's the big deal of overpaying Asik for 2 years while you navigate the lottery and develop Tatum/Smart/Picks? Sorry, but you are making it sound like there are a bunch of great young talent that NOP could sign if only Asik isn't eating up cap space.

For the NOP to make this deal, they're targetting something like 2023 when Smart is 29 and Tatum, LAL18, NOP18, NOP19 are all about 25/26. At that point, really... who cares about Omer Asik's $10 million salary for a few years? We didn't care about Gerald Wallace stinking it up for about the same money. When you're a bottom feeder, you don't mind taking on garbage contracts for future assets because you're tanking.

BTW the filler I mentioned was based on the fact that I don't know what Smart's extended contract could be. If I'm off a mil or two, you could throw in Semi or something.
Smart is a restricted free agent.  If he signs in Boston next summer, he can't be traded for multiple months.  To do a sign and trade, Smart would have to agree to go whatever team signed him and even then options are limited because not every team can acquire a player in a sign and trade.  Now if Smart signs an extension now, he could be traded next summer but the rules are limited.

And there is absolutely no reason a team rebuilding would want 35 million tied up in basically worthless players for the next 3 seasons.  New Orleans is much better off unloading those terrible contracts as they serve absolutely no purpose and the only way they can realistically do it is to attach them to Davis.  New Orleans can much more effectively use those dollars and get assets to do it (see Nets with Crabbe or as you mention Boston with Wallace where Boston got an extra 1st to take on Wallace). 
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