Author Topic: Tony Allen's # to be retired....  (Read 1189 times)

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Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2017, 03:58:42 PM »

Offline Onslaught

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Man, I need to call my local NBA team and tell them to retire Dell Curry, Larry Johnson, Alonzo Mourning, Glen Rice, Baron Davis, Kendall Gill and Muggsy Bouges. Because apparently anyone can get their number up.
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Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2017, 04:27:18 PM »

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I wouldn't call this desperate at all. It's just relative. The criteria for the Bulls to retire a jersery are different then the Grizzlies.

Also, the grizzlies have been around 23 seasons.  The first 8 seasons they were the worst team in the league followed by 3 winning seasons with  Pau Gasol followed by 4 more losing seasons after they traded him.  The first 15 seasons of this franchise's existence was downright terrible.

Then they signed Tony Allen.  Everything changed for the Grizz when Tony Allen, The Grindfather, stepped on the court wearing Memphis blue, and when he came up with his famous tag line "grit and grind" in a post game interview.  He did for them what KG did for us, (except the obvious ring).  They Grizz went on to have 7 good to very good consecutive seasons with multiple 50+ win seasons.

I applaud them for honoring defense, intangibles, leadership and hustle and this could open the doors a bit for Marcus to get his number retired here :)



Every franchise needs a foundation to build off of.... a culture to follow.  The Celtics has their, toughness and grit since the Bill Russell days.  Lakers have theirs, showtime, and that continues to today.
it's desperate just like the zbo Jersey  retirement

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2017, 04:43:44 PM »

Offline incoherent

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I wouldn't call this desperate at all. It's just relative. The criteria for the Bulls to retire a jersery are different then the Grizzlies.

Also, the grizzlies have been around 23 seasons.  The first 8 seasons they were the worst team in the league followed by 3 winning seasons with  Pau Gasol followed by 4 more losing seasons after they traded him.  The first 15 seasons of this franchise's existence was downright terrible.

Then they signed Tony Allen.  Everything changed for the Grizz when Tony Allen, The Grindfather, stepped on the court wearing Memphis blue, and when he came up with his famous tag line "grit and grind" in a post game interview.  He did for them what KG did for us, (except the obvious ring).  They Grizz went on to have 7 good to very good consecutive seasons with multiple 50+ win seasons.

I applaud them for honoring defense, intangibles, leadership and hustle and this could open the doors a bit for Marcus to get his number retired here :)



Every franchise needs a foundation to build off of.... a culture to follow.  The Celtics has their, toughness and grit since the Bill Russell days.  Lakers have theirs, showtime, and that continues to today.
it's desperate just like the zbo Jersey  retirement

Great counter argument.  Just take the L instead of repeating yourself.

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2017, 04:55:01 PM »

Online RJ87

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I wouldn't call this desperate at all. It's just relative. The criteria for the Bulls to retire a jersery are different then the Grizzlies.

Also, the grizzlies have been around 23 seasons.  The first 8 seasons they were the worst team in the league followed by 3 winning seasons with  Pau Gasol followed by 4 more losing seasons after they traded him.  The first 15 seasons of this franchise's existence was downright terrible.

Then they signed Tony Allen.  Everything changed for the Grizz when Tony Allen, The Grindfather, stepped on the court wearing Memphis blue, and when he came up with his famous tag line "grit and grind" in a post game interview.  He did for them what KG did for us, (except the obvious ring).  They Grizz went on to have 7 good to very good consecutive seasons with multiple 50+ win seasons.

I applaud them for honoring defense, intangibles, leadership and hustle and this could open the doors a bit for Marcus to get his number retired here :)



Every franchise needs a foundation to build off of.... a culture to follow.  The Celtics has their, toughness and grit since the Bill Russell days.  Lakers have theirs, showtime, and that continues to today.

100% agree.

I don't think people are respecting what the ZBo/TA/Marc/Conley era has meant to that franchise. Those four guys basically legitimized that franchise, the team had their best playoff runs with that core. They chose to be there, they embraced the community (ZBo particularly has done so much community work there that doesn't get publicity. Not just financially, but actually putting in the time). They created and embodied the Grit 'n Grind mentality that was the backbone of that program for such a long time. Posters here love to talk about "what it means to be a Celtic" and "bleeding green", those guys have been that for Memphis. Let them get their recognition.
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Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2017, 04:59:48 PM »

Online bdm860

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love TA but I think it speaks more to how desperate that franchise is to have someone/something recognized there than just about anywhere else.  what other franchise would retire his jersey for what he's accomplished?  if he's a huge contributor in the area that's great but not what I would think a jersey should be retired for.
At first in my brain I disagreed and thought "A franchise can definitely retire a beloved player's # who didn't achieve tons" and then I tried to think of examples and it was almost impossible to come up with players that didn't win a lot AND/OR didn't get lots of major awards.

Perk?

Dave Roberts?

Bill Buckner as an apology

Long snapper?

6x's All Defense doesn't count as a ton of awards?

If he averaged 20+ppg but was a sieve on D for 7 seasons nobody would bat an eye.
fair enough - using that standard you could make the argument that Bruce Bowen's jersey should be retired in SAS.   I don't think you'd find many people saying Bowen's should be retired.

as for scoring 20+ for 7 seasons - it'd still be a debate that depended on the player, what else they accomplished, what franchise and what the team accomplished with that player.

Bruce Bowen's number is retired. (Or was? He has since let LaMarcus Aldridge wear it), right next to the even less accomplished Avery Johnson's (but granted the argument changes a little when you actually win a ring).



Excluding all guys who won a ring or passed on while playing, I think you'll find a decent list of players who accomplished about as much as Tony Allen did (and this is focusing on just guys who played in the 90's and beyond):

Tony Allen, 6x All Defense, 56 playoff games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cavs, 2x All Star, 71 playoff games
Larry Nance, Cavs, 3x All Star, 3x All D, 41 playoff games
Tim Hardaway, Heat, 2x All Star, 3x All NBA, 39 playoff games
Dan Majerle, Suns, 3x All Star, 2x All D, 83 playoff games
Terry Porter, Blazers, 2x All Star, 84 playoff games
Vlade Divac, Kings, 1x All Star, 58 playoff games
Nate McMillian, Sonics, 2x All D, 98 playoff games
Jeff Hornacek, Jazz, 100 playoff games
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 05:06:58 PM by bdm860 »

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Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2017, 05:46:08 PM »

Online mr. dee

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love TA but I think it speaks more to how desperate that franchise is to have someone/something recognized there than just about anywhere else.  what other franchise would retire his jersey for what he's accomplished?  if he's a huge contributor in the area that's great but not what I would think a jersey should be retired for.
At first in my brain I disagreed and thought "A franchise can definitely retire a beloved player's # who didn't achieve tons" and then I tried to think of examples and it was almost impossible to come up with players that didn't win a lot AND/OR didn't get lots of major awards.

Perk?

Dave Roberts?

Bill Buckner as an apology

Long snapper?

6x's All Defense doesn't count as a ton of awards?

If he averaged 20+ppg but was a sieve on D for 7 seasons nobody would bat an eye.
fair enough - using that standard you could make the argument that Bruce Bowen's jersey should be retired in SAS.   I don't think you'd find many people saying Bowen's should be retired.

as for scoring 20+ for 7 seasons - it'd still be a debate that depended on the player, what else they accomplished, what franchise and what the team accomplished with that player.

Well, his Jersey was retired by the spurs. Only to unretire it to make room for Aldridge.

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2017, 06:06:13 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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All 4 of them will definitely get their numbers retired.

I think a few of them are getting statues as well.

LOL.

TP.


I protest !!!   .....the towel boy has been there for ever !

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2017, 06:16:35 PM »

Offline Onslaught

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love TA but I think it speaks more to how desperate that franchise is to have someone/something recognized there than just about anywhere else.  what other franchise would retire his jersey for what he's accomplished?  if he's a huge contributor in the area that's great but not what I would think a jersey should be retired for.
At first in my brain I disagreed and thought "A franchise can definitely retire a beloved player's # who didn't achieve tons" and then I tried to think of examples and it was almost impossible to come up with players that didn't win a lot AND/OR didn't get lots of major awards.

Perk?

Dave Roberts?

Bill Buckner as an apology

Long snapper?

6x's All Defense doesn't count as a ton of awards?

If he averaged 20+ppg but was a sieve on D for 7 seasons nobody would bat an eye.
fair enough - using that standard you could make the argument that Bruce Bowen's jersey should be retired in SAS.   I don't think you'd find many people saying Bowen's should be retired.

as for scoring 20+ for 7 seasons - it'd still be a debate that depended on the player, what else they accomplished, what franchise and what the team accomplished with that player.

Bruce Bowen's number is retired. (Or was? He has since let LaMarcus Aldridge wear it), right next to the even less accomplished Avery Johnson's (but granted the argument changes a little when you actually win a ring).



Excluding all guys who won a ring or passed on while playing, I think you'll find a decent list of players who accomplished about as much as Tony Allen did (and this is focusing on just guys who played in the 90's and beyond):

Tony Allen, 6x All Defense, 56 playoff games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cavs, 2x All Star, 71 playoff games
Larry Nance, Cavs, 3x All Star, 3x All D, 41 playoff games
Tim Hardaway, Heat, 2x All Star, 3x All NBA, 39 playoff games
Dan Majerle, Suns, 3x All Star, 2x All D, 83 playoff games
Terry Porter, Blazers, 2x All Star, 84 playoff games
Vlade Divac, Kings, 1x All Star, 58 playoff games
Nate McMillian, Sonics, 2x All D, 98 playoff games
Jeff Hornacek, Jazz, 100 playoff games

I think the championship-clinching shot in Game 5 that Avery Johnson hit is saying he deserves it.
Peace through Tyranny

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2017, 06:25:02 PM »

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Don't bust on Memphis for retiring TA's number.

At least he played for them.

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2017, 06:51:13 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Retiring a Jersey is completely different from Hall of Fame... Because that's the impression I'm getting from all of you guys, who seriously think getting a jersey retired is that big of a deal...

I remember the Ray Allen, and there were plenty of mixed feelings that were 50/50 on retiring his jersey.

Me? Who cares? Celtics have retired like 10x more jerseys in the same breath as Tony Allen... Michael Jordan had his freaking jersey retired by the Miami Heat!!

Nate Thurmond who played an sparingly none-too-impressive 2 years with averages of 8.7 and 4.6 RPG, also had his jersey retired by the Cavaliers...

I mean Allen certainly did FAR FAR FAR FAR more than what most players have done...

Like others have said, Allen built a culture. The grit and grind became the moniker for what most Grizzlies fans would love and adore to this day.
Life is too short to worry about what other people think about you...

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Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2017, 06:57:34 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I wouldn't call this desperate at all. It's just relative. The criteria for the Bulls to retire a jersery are different then the Grizzlies.

Also, the grizzlies have been around 23 seasons.  The first 8 seasons they were the worst team in the league followed by 3 winning seasons with  Pau Gasol followed by 4 more losing seasons after they traded him.  The first 15 seasons of this franchise's existence was downright terrible.

Then they signed Tony Allen.  Everything changed for the Grizz when Tony Allen, The Grindfather, stepped on the court wearing Memphis blue, and when he came up with his famous tag line "grit and grind" in a post game interview.  He did for them what KG did for us, (except the obvious ring).  They Grizz went on to have 7 good to very good consecutive seasons with multiple 50+ win seasons.

I applaud them for honoring defense, intangibles, leadership and hustle and this could open the doors a bit for Marcus to get his number retired here :)



Every franchise needs a foundation to build off of.... a culture to follow.  The Celtics has their, toughness and grit since the Bill Russell days.  Lakers have theirs, showtime, and that continues to today.

I think that is a major, major stretch there.

KG didn't only change the entire culture of the Celtics with his defensive impact, he was also the team's leading rebounder and took turns with Pierce/Allen carrying the team offensively.  He did everything for Boston.

Comparing KG to Tony Allen is an insult to Kevin Garnett, who remains (to this day) one of the greatest all-round players to ever play the game. 

Tony Allen is a defensive role player who was barely capable of contributing in any other way.   He was a negative offensive player  most of his career (neutral at best in his better years), couldn't defend, wasn't a skilled passer, didn't really do a whole lot on the boards - he was a master of one category.  He was essentially the Steve Kerr of the Grizzlies, since taking (and making) big threes was really the only thing Kerr was great at.

It's difficult to think of other guys who had a game like Tony Allen, who have had their jerseys retired.  Even Bruce Bowen isn't really comparable, because as dominant as he was defensively, he was also known for the number of huge game winning threes he made - for the Spurs he was like Tony Allen merged with Robert Horry. His ability to win games on both ends of the floor with his defence and clutch shooting (even if he wasn't a prolific volume scorer) make him a critical part of three Spurs championships.

Tony Allen has been a good one-dimensional player on a bunch of pretty-good-but-not-great teams.  The closest comparison to Tony Allen would probably by Tyson Chandler in Dallas, and even that isn't a fair comparison because Chandler didn't only drive Dallas' defence, he also controlled the boards and helped deliver them a title.

I can't even use Anthony Mason or Charles Oakley in NY as examples, because even those guys contributed in other areas aside from just defence. 

Can anybody here think of a muilt-time All Defensive teamer who literally could not do ANYTHING else at an above average level and never won a title, yet got his jersey retired?  Anybody?

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2017, 07:02:52 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I wonder if there will any debate offered on this forum  when Rondo comes up for retiring His Jersey.  ;D

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2017, 07:14:40 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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love TA but I think it speaks more to how desperate that franchise is to have someone/something recognized there than just about anywhere else.  what other franchise would retire his jersey for what he's accomplished?  if he's a huge contributor in the area that's great but not what I would think a jersey should be retired for.
At first in my brain I disagreed and thought "A franchise can definitely retire a beloved player's # who didn't achieve tons" and then I tried to think of examples and it was almost impossible to come up with players that didn't win a lot AND/OR didn't get lots of major awards.

Perk?

Dave Roberts?

Bill Buckner as an apology

Long snapper?

6x's All Defense doesn't count as a ton of awards?

If he averaged 20+ppg but was a sieve on D for 7 seasons nobody would bat an eye.
fair enough - using that standard you could make the argument that Bruce Bowen's jersey should be retired in SAS.   I don't think you'd find many people saying Bowen's should be retired.

as for scoring 20+ for 7 seasons - it'd still be a debate that depended on the player, what else they accomplished, what franchise and what the team accomplished with that player.

Bruce Bowen's number is retired. (Or was? He has since let LaMarcus Aldridge wear it), right next to the even less accomplished Avery Johnson's (but granted the argument changes a little when you actually win a ring).



Excluding all guys who won a ring or passed on while playing, I think you'll find a decent list of players who accomplished about as much as Tony Allen did (and this is focusing on just guys who played in the 90's and beyond):

Tony Allen, 6x All Defense, 56 playoff games
Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cavs, 2x All Star, 71 playoff games
Larry Nance, Cavs, 3x All Star, 3x All D, 41 playoff games
Tim Hardaway, Heat, 2x All Star, 3x All NBA, 39 playoff games
Dan Majerle, Suns, 3x All Star, 2x All D, 83 playoff games
Terry Porter, Blazers, 2x All Star, 84 playoff games
Vlade Divac, Kings, 1x All Star, 58 playoff games
Nate McMillian, Sonics, 2x All D, 98 playoff games
Jeff Hornacek, Jazz, 100 playoff games

I think the championship-clinching shot in Game 5 that Avery Johnson hit is saying he deserves it.

To be fair to Avery Johnson, Tony Allen has only averaged 10+ PPG once in his entire NBA career...and he did that in one of his earlier seasons with Boston in a small sample size (he only played 33 games that year).  His scoring peaked at 9.8 PPG for Memphis in 2011/12.

Avery Johnson didn't only hit a championship winning shot AND play hard defence, but he also averaged 12 points and 8 assists over his first four seasons in San Antonio while also always shooting close to 50% from the field. He was never a star, but he was a legit starting calibre PG who was a top shelf passer and who could also contribute a little offensive and from what I recall he played pretty hard on defence too.

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2017, 07:17:56 PM »

Offline incoherent

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I wouldn't call this desperate at all. It's just relative. The criteria for the Bulls to retire a jersery are different then the Grizzlies.

Also, the grizzlies have been around 23 seasons.  The first 8 seasons they were the worst team in the league followed by 3 winning seasons with  Pau Gasol followed by 4 more losing seasons after they traded him.  The first 15 seasons of this franchise's existence was downright terrible.

Then they signed Tony Allen.  Everything changed for the Grizz when Tony Allen, The Grindfather, stepped on the court wearing Memphis blue, and when he came up with his famous tag line "grit and grind" in a post game interview.  He did for them what KG did for us, (except the obvious ring).  They Grizz went on to have 7 good to very good consecutive seasons with multiple 50+ win seasons.

I applaud them for honoring defense, intangibles, leadership and hustle and this could open the doors a bit for Marcus to get his number retired here :)



Every franchise needs a foundation to build off of.... a culture to follow.  The Celtics has their, toughness and grit since the Bill Russell days.  Lakers have theirs, showtime, and that continues to today.

I think that is a major, major stretch there.

KG didn't only change the entire culture of the Celtics with his defensive impact, he was also the team's leading rebounder and took turns with Pierce/Allen carrying the team offensively.  He did everything for Boston.

Comparing KG to Tony Allen is an insult to Kevin Garnett, who remains (to this day) one of the greatest all-round players to ever play the game. 

Tony Allen is a defensive role player who was barely capable of contributing in any other way.   He was a negative offensive player  most of his career (neutral at best in his better years), couldn't defend, wasn't a skilled passer, didn't really do a whole lot on the boards - he was a master of one category.  He was essentially the Steve Kerr of the Grizzlies, since taking (and making) big threes was really the only thing Kerr was great at.

It's difficult to think of other guys who had a game like Tony Allen, who have had their jerseys retired.  Even Bruce Bowen isn't really comparable, because as dominant as he was defensively, he was also known for the number of huge game winning threes he made - for the Spurs he was like Tony Allen merged with Robert Horry. His ability to win games on both ends of the floor with his defence and clutch shooting (even if he wasn't a prolific volume scorer) make him a critical part of three Spurs championships.

Tony Allen has been a good one-dimensional player on a bunch of pretty-good-but-not-great teams.  The closest comparison to Tony Allen would probably by Tyson Chandler in Dallas, and even that isn't a fair comparison because Chandler didn't only drive Dallas' defence, he also controlled the boards and helped deliver them a title.

I can't even use Anthony Mason or Charles Oakley in NY as examples, because even those guys contributed in other areas aside from just defence. 

Can anybody here think of a muilt-time All Defensive teamer who literally could not do ANYTHING else at an above average level and never won a title, yet got his jersey retired?  Anybody?

Your entire reply is missing the whole point! You are comparing him to other players on other franchises when the criteria for retiring a number is different for each team.

Comparing what Tony Allen did for the culture of Memphis to what KG did for the Celtics is no insult at all. You act like I am saying Tony is as good as KG is... which im not. What Tony did for the Memphis Grizzlies, The Grindfather... Grit and Grind... its very similiar and very comparable to what KG brought the Celtics.  I dont see how that is insulting someone.  If I was wrong in my assessment then I don't think we would even be having this discussion. Clearly Tony has endeared himself to the Grizzlies fanbase and cemented his legacy there by installing a sense of identity the team can rely upon for years to come.

You come off as someone who has zero clue what Tony and the Grizzlies are all about.

Re: Tony Allen's # to be retired....
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2017, 07:46:52 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I wonder if there will any debate offered on this forum  when Rondo comes up for retiring His Jersey.  ;D

None from me.   

We're talking about a guy who (in his final 6 years as a Celtic, from 08/09 to 13/14) averaged 12.2 PTS, 10.1 AST, 4.9 REB and 2.0 STL while shooting 48% from the field. 

In that time he led the league in assists twice, led the league in steals once, recorded 19 triple doubles, made 4x All-Defensive teams, 1x All-NBA team, 4x All Star, and 1x NBA Champion.

I think it's pretty hard for anybody to argue against that one lol