Author Topic: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal  (Read 2909 times)

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Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2017, 04:27:41 AM »

Offline saltlover

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I think we had to either include Zizic or Yabu for salary purposes.

Nader or Semi also could have been included instead.  I doubt Zizic was the one of those four that Ainge most preferred to trade.  Which probably means he want a throw in.

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2017, 04:29:43 AM »

Offline moiso

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Someone had to go to match salaries and after seeing Zizic in Summer League I don't believe the front office of the Celtics was buying that bull about Zizic being a top 10 pick this year. That was just silliness.

Just for discussion's sake:  Did you happen to catch the July 9th, Summer League game against the 'Blazers?  How well did you think Zizic compared to the _actual_ #10 pick, Zach Collins?  FWIW, here are their stats from that game:

Zach Collins (7' 0", 233 lb, 19.9 years old)
5 points on 1-7 shooting, 6 reb, 1 assist, 3 steal, 2 block, 4 PF in 29:59 minutes

Ante Zizic (6' 11", 254 lb, 20.7 years old)
9 points on 3 of 4 shooting, 11 reb, 1 assist, 1 steal, 4 block, 3 PF in 27:04 minutes

Maybe your eyes saw something different, but mine saw Zizic pretty much dominate the #10 pick.   'Just one game of course.

Zizic actually dominated the _next_ two SL games even more so, in fewer minutes, posting lines of 12/13/2/1 and 14/11/1/3 in under 18 minutes of each game.   Did you only watch the first couple of games of SL?
Well, Zizic is supposed to be physically ready and Collins is projected to take a couple years to get his body up to par.

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2017, 04:35:59 AM »

Offline Somebody

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This deal basically means that the Nets pick needs to be out of the top 6 and Kyrie needs to play at Harden level last year to make it good value.

I think I would argue deal is good value if Kyrie plays like Kyrie, and pick is out of Top 5. It's a quibble though.
If Kyrie plays like Kyrie I would just rather keep IT and hope that IT plays like IT.

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2017, 06:51:42 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Seems like Zizic was just a "throw-in" in this deal, and that's ridiculous because many experts said that in this previous draft (2017 NBA Draft), Zizic would likely have been a Top-10 pick (or at least a lottery one).

No one on God's green earth save his countryman would think this after seeing Summer League and his play there.

Here are his preseason stats

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/ante-zizic-player-stats?seasonType=3

Stop acting like we traded Bill Russell...

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2017, 07:15:28 AM »

Offline DooVoo

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If we were forced to count on Zizic for anything this year we would be in serious trouble. Should I bring up all the threads screaming bloody murder when people finally saw Zizic in the summer league and he looked more like a 2nd round guy than a "top 10 pick". BTW, that top 10 stuff was always bs. You saw him and what he is. He deserved to be drafted where he was. He will take a long time to develop and he is your typical slow plodding euro big man who clearly has some talent. His "not too shabby" numbers are in line with any 3rd or 4th string bigman. Yesterday he played 5 minutes and got 1 rebound. I mean come on.

But welcome to celticsblog.

This deal basically means that the Nets pick needs to be out of the top 6 and Kyrie needs to play at Harden level last year to make it good value.

I think I would argue deal is good value if Kyrie plays like Kyrie, and pick is out of Top 5. It's a quibble though.
If Kyrie plays like Kyrie I would just rather keep IT and hope that IT plays like IT.

IT is hurt. IT can't play like IT when he is injured and no one knows when he will play this season or what IT will ever be again given how serious his injury is.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 07:42:52 AM by DooVoo »

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2017, 08:02:10 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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If we were forced to count on Zizic for anything this year we would be in serious trouble. Should I bring up all the threads screaming bloody murder when people finally saw Zizic in the summer league and he looked more like a 2nd round guy than a "top 10 pick". BTW, that top 10 stuff was always bs. You saw him and what he is. He deserved to be drafted where he was. He will take a long time to develop and he is your typical slow plodding euro big man who clearly has some talent. His "not too shabby" numbers are in line with any 3rd or 4th string bigman. Yesterday he played 5 minutes and got 1 rebound. I mean come on.

But welcome to celticsblog.

This deal basically means that the Nets pick needs to be out of the top 6 and Kyrie needs to play at Harden level last year to make it good value.

I think I would argue deal is good value if Kyrie plays like Kyrie, and pick is out of Top 5. It's a quibble though.
If Kyrie plays like Kyrie I would just rather keep IT and hope that IT plays like IT.

IT is hurt. IT can't play like IT when he is injured and no one knows when he will play this season or what IT will ever be again given how serious his injury is.

Like I said, its not BS. Its okay to say he isnt as good as a top 10 pick, but to say he wouldnt be top 10 prospect because of SL is BS. In a draft with few good bigs, a young C like him who put up great stats in Euroleague will attract a lot of teams. Dragan Bender showed less but was drafted higher afterall.

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2017, 09:09:09 AM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I think we had to either include Zizic or Yabu for salary purposes.

Nader or Semi also could have been included instead.  I doubt Zizic was the one of those four that Ainge most preferred to trade.  Which probably means he want a throw in.

Good point.  In the past few years the Cavs have valued big bodies more highly than the rest of the league.  Remember they once traded two first round picks for Timofey Mozgov AFTER signing Tristan Thompson to a max deal.  It' likely that Zizic was more than just a throw in to them.

To the Celtics however it's very possible they evaluated him and felt he was a replaceable player with a well defined but limited ceiling. 

From my perspective Zizic is so raw it's tough to have any idea what he'll become.  Could he be a great rebounder and shotblocker? Potentially, but in the same vein he's slow and unathletic in the NBA game and some guys never overcome that.  Not to mention his entire offense is at the rim which has become the Scarlett Letter for big men in today's NBA.  I think even if he becomes the next Jusuf Nurkic is that really that much of a loss?  His trade value was less than career journeyman Miles Plumlee as recently as last season.     

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2017, 09:37:56 AM »

Offline greece666

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We had to match salaries but yes, I was sad too to see Zizic go.

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2017, 09:43:02 AM »

Offline incoherent

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Kyrie Irving is shooting 65% from 3... but there's outrage over trading a third-string center for him.

Okay.


Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2017, 10:06:10 AM »

Online Surferdad

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I wonder if the OP feels worse about giving up the 1st round pick than Zizic.  I do.

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2017, 10:18:48 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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this is why I do not like the multiple players for one player trades for the team giving up multiple players. The team that gets multiple payers has its risks spread out more favorably, than the team that get just one player.
Yeah, like the trades for KG. And Ray Allen.

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2017, 10:40:08 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Kyrie Irving is shooting 65% from 3... but there's outrage over trading a third-string center for him.

Okay.

No, there's outrage over giving up a very promising prospect in addition to everything else.

But now I'm aware that it was for salary reasons.

I wonder if the OP feels worse about giving up the 1st round pick than Zizic.  I do.

Search up all threads I have created in the recent month and trust me, you'll find your answer to that question  ;)

I Want a Throw-In, Too!
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2017, 10:45:32 AM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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I think we had to either include Zizic or Yabu for salary purposes.

Nader or Semi also could have been included instead.  I doubt Zizic was the one of those four that Ainge most preferred to trade.  Which probably means he want a throw in.

I don't doubt it. Zizic is not very mobile and looks like he's another high-turnover big who doesn't integrate well into a ball- and man-movement offense.

Of course he wasn't a throw-in, he has some value. I love his relentlessness, and he has shown some ability to finish through contact.  But if he becomes a rotation player at some point it would be quite an achievement. Thirty years ago he'd have had a brighter future.

Keeping a player, even if he has some value, is a commitment to developing him - and not developing someone else. Ojeleye, Yabusele, and, yes, Nader all have higher upside, especially in today's NBA.

Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2017, 11:21:30 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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Someone had to go to match salaries and after seeing Zizic in Summer League I don't believe the front office of the Celtics was buying that bull about Zizic being a top 10 pick this year. That was just silliness.

Just for discussion's sake:  Did you happen to catch the July 9th, Summer League game against the 'Blazers?  How well did you think Zizic compared to the _actual_ #10 pick, Zach Collins?  FWIW, here are their stats from that game:

Zach Collins (7' 0", 233 lb, 19.9 years old)
5 points on 1-7 shooting, 6 reb, 1 assist, 3 steal, 2 block, 4 PF in 29:59 minutes

Ante Zizic (6' 11", 254 lb, 20.7 years old)
9 points on 3 of 4 shooting, 11 reb, 1 assist, 1 steal, 4 block, 3 PF in 27:04 minutes

Maybe your eyes saw something different, but mine saw Zizic pretty much dominate the #10 pick.   'Just one game of course.

Zizic actually dominated the _next_ two SL games even more so, in fewer minutes, posting lines of 12/13/2/1 and 14/11/1/3 in under 18 minutes of each game.   Did you only watch the first couple of games of SL?
Well, Zizic is supposed to be physically ready and Collins is projected to take a couple years to get his body up to par.

The two players are less than a year apart in age.

The point is simply that, if folks are using the tiny sample of Summer League to declare all the talk that Zizic would be a top 10 pick in this last draft as 'silly', then they should probably say that the choice of Zach Collins at #10 was probably silly as well.   Because Zizic is almost certainly a better player at this point and probably will continue to be.
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Re: Ridiculous That Zizic Was Merely A "Throw-In" To The Kyrie Deal
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2017, 12:06:03 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I thought Zizic was significantly overrated by most of this board before he came over. I haven't seen anything yet in summer league or preseason that makes me feel like that was wrong. His salary was needed for the deal. To me his ceiling is a decent backup big who can give you 15 to 20 minutes a night. That's perfectly fine, but it's not a franchise maker or breaker. I'm not waking up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night because we traded him.
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