Author Topic: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension  (Read 7653 times)

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Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2017, 09:47:44 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Tough spot for Philly to be in, but my hunch is that Embiid will go the Ralph Sampson route. I just can't see how a guy of his size, who's already had numerous severe injuries to his lower body, could get healthy and stay healthy.

Sad to say,  but this contract could turn out for the 7ers about the same way as Derrick Rose' last contract turned out for the Bulls. 

Definitely tough for Philly - a man with that kind of talent, you want him out there on the court.  But at the same time, you don't want to risk his career by pushing too soon. 

If I were Philly I'd put him on major minutes restrictions (no more then maybe 20 MPG) until they can get at least 65 games out of him in a season.  I don't care if that takes 2-3 years to happen. 

If I have to play him on 20 MPG restrictions for the next 2-3 seasons then that's what I'd do.  You pretty much need to treat him the way Boston did with KG in the last season or two, where they were basically playing him 6th man minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs. 

It sounds crazy treating a 20 year old like a 37 year old, but that's what you really need to do here.  He's such an impressive talent and the future of their franchise depends almost entirely on his success.  Especially when you have 1/3 of your cap invested in him over the next 5 years.  If you can at least keep in in at the end of games to help close out then maybe that's enough to win them a significant number of games.

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2017, 10:02:33 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Larrybird33 is in heaven over this ...LOL ..his dream player remains part of his precious process of bunk.

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2017, 10:44:36 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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If you're playing fantasy, you have 2nd thoughts about drafting Embiid high because nobody is sure if he can play 3 games a week, much less 4.

Last year, they babied him to keep his feet sound. Then he went down with a knee, so now he has two issues. You would think they would wait until he got on the court to decide how big a contract to give him.

With that $150M contract, somebody is going to have egg on their face if he isn't sound.

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2017, 11:37:41 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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Embid may be too big physically given the way he plays. His body may not be capable of handling the pounding it takes to compete in the league over the course of a season.  However Philly probably had to do it. 

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2017, 04:10:40 AM »

Offline Androslav

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What an expected surprise. A 148 mil max deal (he could earn as much as $178 million per Woj) for a league's great talent, that played merely 12,6% of his possible games in his first 3 seasons. It hasn't been reported yet, but the contract should be very complicated in terms of the guarantees in the last years of the deal.

Many will criticize this contract right from its start. I won't be in that category and here is why.
Embiid is both the offensive and the defensive force. Able to score in bunches (low post, FTS, outside shot, commanding double-teams) while locking down the paint (controlling the defensive glass, erasing shots and showing nice mobility a bit further out. Currently the 2nd best center of this generation (AD is the best (year older), but without the fluid low post scoring skills, KAT/KP can't/didn't yet anchor a good defense or have shown they will).

Many will say OK, he is good, but what is its worth if he can't stay healthy.
The way I see it, Phillie's process is Joel Embiid. If he doesn't pan out, the process will disappoint too. If Joel really becomes healthy, they could contend in 3 to 5 years from now (perhaps they could even give us a true rival in the East). If he doesn't pan out, they will enter some playoffs in those years, but they won't raise any dust in the air (Simmons isn't that scorer, he and Fultz need a center to cover for them). This way it is worth the gamble since they have a young core that can follow Joel in any of his positive futures.

Can you think any other way that Philly locks an external potential top 10 player for the next 5 years? Hard to envision that, Joel is here. Invested, magnetic, talented.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2017, 07:44:44 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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A risky thing given his past record of health issues.

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2017, 08:14:33 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Keep on seeing people say it's only half guaranteed. Is that confirmed/true? I don't see anything from Woj etc about that.

Seems the only way that makes sense is if the last couple of years are team options, but perhaps there are loopholes in the new CBA that we haven't yet learned about.

As for the deal itself, it seems like something that could have waited until next offseason. If Embiid is amazing and plays almost all games, then giving him the max is a no-brainer; however, if he is injured, and misses most of the season, it seems like they could have saved themselves some money.

Part of me agrees- I don't see him playing close to 82 games.

The other part thinks that Philly is not a top destination, and if Embiid reaches his potential, why would he want to stay there? It's an organization that lacks a sense of urgency to win.

He doesn't have to want to stay there, Philly can just sign him to the same contract next off-season or match any other offer sheet he signs. I suppose he could play for the QO if he really wants out, but given his health concerns, that wouldn't be a wise move. He needs to take whatever long term money he can get ASAP.

...Many will say OK, he is good, but what is its worth if he can't stay healthy.
The way I see it, Phillie's process is Joel Embiid. If he doesn't pan out, the process will disappoint too. If Joel really becomes healthy, they could contend in 3 to 5 years from now (perhaps they could even give us a true rival in the East). If he doesn't pan out, they will enter some playoffs in those years, but they won't raise any dust in the air (Simmons isn't that scorer, he and Fultz need a center to cover for them). This way it is worth the gamble since they have a young core that can follow Joel in any of his positive futures.

Can you think any other way that Philly locks an external potential top 10 player for the next 5 years? Hard to envision that, Joel is here. Invested, magnetic, talented.

Philly has two other #1 picks on their team, at least one future high #1, plus some other young talent. If this doesn't work out, I guess their young talent isn't going anywhere, but they also won't have the money to sign anybody else.  I get that they want to keep Embiid, but why not wait until he plays this year? Tying yourselves down to a guy who has played 31 games in 3 seasons when you don't have to doesn't make much sense - especially when you aren't forced to make that decision now.

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2017, 08:14:33 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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This right here, could potentially be Billy King 2.0

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2017, 08:27:24 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Embid may be too big physically given the way he plays. His body may not be capable of handling the pounding it takes to compete in the league over the course of a season.  However Philly probably had to do it.

TP

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2017, 08:30:43 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I want to see him play significant minutes for 40 straight games .

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2017, 09:49:57 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I'd like to see federal grant money used to study Embiid (e.g., genetics, neuroimaging, vertical, sense of humor).  The world may not be quite ready for a freak of his nature, but his offspring could change modern basketball/the world.
The Tarstradamus Group, LLC

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2017, 10:12:55 AM »

Offline RLewis35

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What an expected surprise. A 148 mil max deal (he could earn as much as $178 million per Woj) for a league's great talent, that played merely 12,6% of his possible games in his first 3 seasons. It hasn't been reported yet, but the contract should be very complicated in terms of the guarantees in the last years of the deal.

Many will criticize this contract right from its start. I won't be in that category and here is why.
Embiid is both the offensive and the defensive force. Able to score in bunches (low post, FTS, outside shot, commanding double-teams) while locking down the paint (controlling the defensive glass, erasing shots and showing nice mobility a bit further out. Currently the 2nd best center of this generation (AD is the best (year older), but without the fluid low post scoring skills, KAT/KP can't/didn't yet anchor a good defense or have shown they will).

Many will say OK, he is good, but what is its worth if he can't stay healthy.
The way I see it, Phillie's process is Joel Embiid. If he doesn't pan out, the process will disappoint too. If Joel really becomes healthy, they could contend in 3 to 5 years from now (perhaps they could even give us a true rival in the East). If he doesn't pan out, they will enter some playoffs in those years, but they won't raise any dust in the air (Simmons isn't that scorer, he and Fultz need a center to cover for them). This way it is worth the gamble since they have a young core that can follow Joel in any of his positive futures.

Can you think any other way that Philly locks an external potential top 10 player for the next 5 years? Hard to envision that, Joel is here. Invested, magnetic, talented.

You make great points but why would they extend him now?

1.  Now he eats up more of the cap in the offseason when they try to sign a max star.  Could have signed him in offseason a day after the max star (or 2 depending) and gone over the cap with his deal.

2.  There was 0 risk of him leaving Philly.  A big man with bad injury history would never risk signing the qualifying offer.  So either he'd accept the Long term deal from philly, or sign an offer sheet which philly would obviously match.

3.   By waiting you get the benefit to see how many games he plays this year, injuries, etc.

4.  The only thing we don't know is the extensiveness  of the injury protections they have in the deal.  Apparently the contract was super complex so I guess without that info we don't know for sure but bc of point 1 I still think this was dumb.

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2017, 10:53:38 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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What an expected surprise. A 148 mil max deal (he could earn as much as $178 million per Woj) for a league's great talent, that played merely 12,6% of his possible games in his first 3 seasons. It hasn't been reported yet, but the contract should be very complicated in terms of the guarantees in the last years of the deal.

Many will criticize this contract right from its start. I won't be in that category and here is why.
Embiid is both the offensive and the defensive force. Able to score in bunches (low post, FTS, outside shot, commanding double-teams) while locking down the paint (controlling the defensive glass, erasing shots and showing nice mobility a bit further out. Currently the 2nd best center of this generation (AD is the best (year older), but without the fluid low post scoring skills, KAT/KP can't/didn't yet anchor a good defense or have shown they will).

Many will say OK, he is good, but what is its worth if he can't stay healthy.
The way I see it, Phillie's process is Joel Embiid. If he doesn't pan out, the process will disappoint too. If Joel really becomes healthy, they could contend in 3 to 5 years from now (perhaps they could even give us a true rival in the East). If he doesn't pan out, they will enter some playoffs in those years, but they won't raise any dust in the air (Simmons isn't that scorer, he and Fultz need a center to cover for them). This way it is worth the gamble since they have a young core that can follow Joel in any of his positive futures.

Can you think any other way that Philly locks an external potential top 10 player for the next 5 years? Hard to envision that, Joel is here. Invested, magnetic, talented.

You make great points but why would they extend him now?

1.  Now he eats up more of the cap in the offseason when they try to sign a max star.  Could have signed him in offseason a day after the max star (or 2 depending) and gone over the cap with his deal.

2.  There was 0 risk of him leaving Philly.  A big man with bad injury history would never risk signing the qualifying offer.  So either he'd accept the Long term deal from philly, or sign an offer sheet which philly would obviously match.

3.   By waiting you get the benefit to see how many games he plays this year, injuries, etc.

4.  The only thing we don't know is the extensiveness  of the injury protections they have in the deal.  Apparently the contract was super complex so I guess without that info we don't know for sure but bc of point 1 I still think this was dumb.

I generally agree with you, but point #1 I believe is incorrect. For a rookie, the hold should be the maximum, and these holds are in effect regardless of signing him.

Quote
Larry Bird, following the third season of his rookie scale contract   Any   The maximum amount the team can pay the player using the Larry Bird exception (see question number 25)

But, in general, there is no benefit to a team signing a player to the maximum early, unless you think the player is going to be so offended that you didn't sign him early that he will end up rejecting the max deal later, then taking the 5th year QO and walking as a UFA.

Essentially, if you sign a player early to the maximum, you are assuming all of the risk and potential downside and gaining nothing.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 11:08:24 AM by Fan from VT »

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2017, 11:27:01 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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FYI, here is how much a few players have made PER GAME in their careers:

Dirk: $173,347.46
Joe Johnson: $166,701.26
Carmelo: $206,066.24
Lebron: $189,073.79
Horford: $157,466.95
Embiid: $292,083.87

Re: Sixers & Embiid Agree to 5 Year/$148 Million Extension
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2017, 12:45:14 PM »

Offline Androslav

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What an expected surprise. A 148 mil max deal (he could earn as much as $178 million per Woj) for a league's great talent, that played merely 12,6% of his possible games in his first 3 seasons. It hasn't been reported yet, but the contract should be very complicated in terms of the guarantees in the last years of the deal.

Many will criticize this contract right from its start. I won't be in that category and here is why.
Embiid is both the offensive and the defensive force. Able to score in bunches (low post, FTS, outside shot, commanding double-teams) while locking down the paint (controlling the defensive glass, erasing shots and showing nice mobility a bit further out. Currently the 2nd best center of this generation (AD is the best (year older), but without the fluid low post scoring skills, KAT/KP can't/didn't yet anchor a good defense or have shown they will).

Many will say OK, he is good, but what is its worth if he can't stay healthy.
The way I see it, Phillie's process is Joel Embiid. If he doesn't pan out, the process will disappoint too. If Joel really becomes healthy, they could contend in 3 to 5 years from now (perhaps they could even give us a true rival in the East). If he doesn't pan out, they will enter some playoffs in those years, but they won't raise any dust in the air (Simmons isn't that scorer, he and Fultz need a center to cover for them). This way it is worth the gamble since they have a young core that can follow Joel in any of his positive futures.

Can you think any other way that Philly locks an external potential top 10 player for the next 5 years? Hard to envision that, Joel is here. Invested, magnetic, talented.

You make great points but why would they extend him now?

1.  Now he eats up more of the cap in the offseason when they try to sign a max star.  Could have signed him in offseason a day after the max star (or 2 depending) and gone over the cap with his deal.

2.  There was 0 risk of him leaving Philly.  A big man with bad injury history would never risk signing the qualifying offer.  So either he'd accept the Long term deal from philly, or sign an offer sheet which philly would obviously match.

3.   By waiting you get the benefit to see how many games he plays this year, injuries, etc.

4.  The only thing we don't know is the extensiveness  of the injury protections they have in the deal.  Apparently the contract was super complex so I guess without that info we don't know for sure but bc of point 1 I still think this was dumb.

1. Lets take an ownership perspective.
They were promising "7 scarce, 7 abundant years" of biblical proportions ("Hinkie died for our sins"), due to their amassed number of high draft picks. They have decided (medical records) that Embiid is worth paying the max. They have decided that Okafor is their sacreficial lamb, and they won't invest much playing time or playtypes that give him the most favorable actions to increase his value. Ok, if they have also signaling that Embiid is their 2nd "wasted" 3rd pick of the draft, that wouldn't quite be in sync with their "7 scarce, 7 abundant years" narrative.

This way they said. Embiid is a superstarstar, RoCo is a starter and we will sign them to more favorable (market) contracts now, rather than to give them a chance to up their value this year. Embiid would then ask for looser guarantees and RoCo could demand more cash.

2. To be more precise, for Philly. 0 risk of leaving is when he is extended. In fact, he can still demand a trade and leave, but that seems really unlikely, also he would have to change his nickname/chant/mantra "in the proccess" :)

3. IMO, they have seen enough in 3 years.

4. Only Philly has his full medical records and they made a tough decission.

I think thats why now. We will see the guarantees later and know more.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."