Poll

Sign Bosh?

Sign him and see if he's still able to play/contribute
7 (30.4%)
Don't sign him. Medical issues not worth risk?
16 (69.6%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Author Topic: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?  (Read 4358 times)

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Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2017, 10:56:50 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I always feel weird commenting on health issues without the full picture, but I would not be surprised if he could play again.

I do not at all think that his condition will cause sudden death on the court, unlike the problems with Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy, which I believe is what Reggie Lewis had, and unlike the potential of a ruptured aortic aneurysm or ruptured dilated aorta, which I think if memory serves correctly, is what Chris Wilcox, Etan Thomas, and Jeff Green all had surgeries to fix/prevent.


Bosh has blood clots that form in his veins. This can be for a few reasons, mostly either he has a genetic predisposition toward forming clots or he has bad luck. Being physically active decreases blood clots, but long periods of not moving (the classic scenario being an airplane ride, which NBA players have a lot of) increases the risk; blood will pool in the veins of his legs; if it hangs around too long it will start to clot; the clot will continue to grow. This is why it seemed like a "calf strain" then chest pain.

The danger of the clots is that they can become dislodged and get stuck the next time it hits a smaller blood vessel; if you follow the chart of the cardiovascular system, the vessels get bigger as they get closer to the heart, then smaller again, so a dislodged venous blood clot tends to get stuck in the lung. If it is a small clot, it can cause pain, sometimes kill some lung tissue off, which can get infected, etc. The major danger is if a large clot gets stuck in the main pulmonary artery, you basically get a full traffic jam of blood and no blood can move forward anywhere, and you can die. Very scary, but those size clots don't happen in the flow of a basketball game; they take time to grow. Such a clot typically has to be the size of your thigh vein; the veins in the calf and arm are extremely unlikely to be life threatening.

Now, the treatment for someone who is prone to clots is using "blood thinners," which typically require a lot of frequent monitoring to make sure he is taking enough but not too much medicine. Generally, the amount needed is nowhere close to the amount that would cause dangerous bleeding, and I am sure that Bosh would get good, frequent medical care from a team investing in him.

So I am surprised that no doctor would clear him either to play on a standard preventive dose of blood thinners or, knowing his history, would develop some plan to not let him stay completely still on plane rides and use an ultrasound to check his veins frequently for early clots. Either way, I don't think he is at all likely to drop on the court.




Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2017, 12:11:15 PM »

Offline liam

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I always feel weird commenting on health issues without the full picture, but I would not be surprised if he could play again.

I do not at all think that his condition will cause sudden death on the court, unlike the problems with Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy, which I believe is what Reggie Lewis had, and unlike the potential of a ruptured aortic aneurysm or ruptured dilated aorta, which I think if memory serves correctly, is what Chris Wilcox, Etan Thomas, and Jeff Green all had surgeries to fix/prevent.


Bosh has blood clots that form in his veins. This can be for a few reasons, mostly either he has a genetic predisposition toward forming clots or he has bad luck. Being physically active decreases blood clots, but long periods of not moving (the classic scenario being an airplane ride, which NBA players have a lot of) increases the risk; blood will pool in the veins of his legs; if it hangs around too long it will start to clot; the clot will continue to grow. This is why it seemed like a "calf strain" then chest pain.

The danger of the clots is that they can become dislodged and get stuck the next time it hits a smaller blood vessel; if you follow the chart of the cardiovascular system, the vessels get bigger as they get closer to the heart, then smaller again, so a dislodged venous blood clot tends to get stuck in the lung. If it is a small clot, it can cause pain, sometimes kill some lung tissue off, which can get infected, etc. The major danger is if a large clot gets stuck in the main pulmonary artery, you basically get a full traffic jam of blood and no blood can move forward anywhere, and you can die. Very scary, but those size clots don't happen in the flow of a basketball game; they take time to grow. Such a clot typically has to be the size of your thigh vein; the veins in the calf and arm are extremely unlikely to be life threatening.

Now, the treatment for someone who is prone to clots is using "blood thinners," which typically require a lot of frequent monitoring to make sure he is taking enough but not too much medicine. Generally, the amount needed is nowhere close to the amount that would cause dangerous bleeding, and I am sure that Bosh would get good, frequent medical care from a team investing in him.

So I am surprised that no doctor would clear him either to play on a standard preventive dose of blood thinners or, knowing his history, would develop some plan to not let him stay completely still on plane rides and use an ultrasound to check his veins frequently for early clots. Either way, I don't think he is at all likely to drop on the court.





Thanks for very in-depth information.

Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2017, 12:38:30 PM »

Offline Ed Hollison

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I'll say this again... If you lived through Len Bias and Reggie Lewis, the answer to this question is obvious.
but they were both drug related deaths ...

I understand your point, but the evidence that Reggie Lewis's death was brought on by drug use is incomplete. From what I remember it was based on the testimony of just one individual from the defense who said he'd seen Lewis get high.

Lewis's original diagnosis was that it was unsafe for his heart to play basketball. So he desperately searched for a second opinion that told him something different. Eventually he found a doctor who told him it was safe, and so of course Lewis (and the Celtics), eager to play, took that advice. After he died, that doctor and the team used the drug use claim to wash their hands of culpability. But it's important to note that the original diagnosis was for Lewis to stop playing.

The point is: Reggie Lewis was my favorite player growing up. I'll bet lots of people in their 30s on this forum would say the same thing. The ugliness of the whole episode -- just imagine a player dropping dead in a practice or a game, after the team has cleared him to play -- is something I would not risk unless there was absolute medical consensus that it was safe. And that's absolutely not the case for Bosh.
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Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2017, 12:46:30 PM »

Offline playdream

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Doctors are not gods and shouldn't put to be decide a man's life and control their free will

Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2017, 12:53:31 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Doctors are not gods and shouldn't put to be decide a man's life and control their free will

Nobody is taking any freedoms away from Bosh. He is free to play as much basketball as he wishes, just not on a NBA court.

Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2017, 01:15:51 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Doctors are not gods and shouldn't put to be decide a man's life and control their free will
having a free will and being stupid are not necessarily mutually exclusive. on points such as these, medical experts should have far more weight when a team makes a decision.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
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Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2017, 02:07:39 PM »

Offline moiso

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Doctors are not gods and shouldn't put to be decide a man's life and control their free will

Nobody is taking any freedoms away from Bosh. He is free to play as much basketball as he wishes, just not on a NBA court.
And you can watch all of the movies you want... as long as they are on played on a 13 inch black and white tv.

Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2017, 02:19:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Doctors are not gods and shouldn't put to be decide a man's life and control their free will
Your personal doctor can only examine you and give you advice what to do. What you decide to do with that advice is up to you. No one is controlling you into making that decision.

Bosh's decision to return against medical advice is up to him. However, teams are businesses that employs doctors and Bosh would need to be examined by that team doctor. That team doctor then advises both Bosh AND the team what to do. If the team decides to employ Bosh, that's up to them.

Right now I don't know if a team would employ Bosh based on information on his health that has been available to the public.

Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2017, 02:31:39 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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It must be difficult for him to give up the game he loves.

But unless an independent well-known doctor clears him to play.

Let's help him, to save himself, by saying no.

Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2017, 04:23:47 PM »

Offline lbgreen33

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A Pulmonary Embolism is actually known as a silent killer.  About a year and a half ago I had a major Pulmonary Embolism.  I then had an infarction, which took part of my lung. While in the hospital, they couldn’t find where the clot came from but they think my leg.
I am over 6'3" and in pretty good shape, I was out shopping the day before and felt great, that morning something felt off and I luckily decided to go to the ER where they found the PE.  It was a close call but I have made a pretty full recovery. I just want to make the point that a PE can happen to anyone and you might not feel much of anything. For me, I felt nothing until that morning, then I felt pain behind my lung, kind of like pneumonia type pain. It seems some feel like it would be easy to spot a problem. For me, that was not the case at all. I was very lucky and feel very blessed to be here. I will add, if something doesn’t feel right go to the ER, it may be nothing, but it is much better to be safe than sorry.  That is also how I feel about Bosh. It is his life and his decision, but a PE can happen with very little warning.

Re: Bosh hasn't ruled out NBA return. Should we kick the tires?
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2017, 04:40:26 PM »

Offline playdream

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Doctors are not gods and shouldn't put to be decide a man's life and control their free will
Your personal doctor can only examine you and give you advice what to do. What you decide to do with that advice is up to you. No one is controlling you into making that decision.

Bosh's decision to return against medical advice is up to him. However, teams are businesses that employs doctors and Bosh would need to be examined by that team doctor. That team doctor then advises both Bosh AND the team what to do. If the team decides to employ Bosh, that's up to them.


Right now I don't know if a team would employ Bosh based on information on his health that has been available to the public.
That is correct and should be that way, i am not buying "refuse him for himself" , he is not a kid or a psychi , only himself can help himself in that matter