Author Topic: nader is no james young-  (Read 10200 times)

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Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2017, 10:37:01 AM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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Theis - I like a lot. He's an upgrade over Jerebko (another one of your favorites) and can provide some rim running/energy this season.

I just don't get the Jerebko comparison. Theis is a big with length, Jerebko is not. There's more to say about them, but that's a yawning chasm.

I agreed with a lot of your comments, but I'm not tracking this one about length. Jerebko is listed at 6'10", Theis is listed at 6'9".

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jerebjo01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/theisda01.html

I haven't been able to find Theis' wingspan/standing reach anywhere. By the eye test, Theis looks to have a long wingspan, but Jerebko wasn't exactly Kelly O. If there's a length difference, it doesn't appear to be huge. Where's your info on this coming from?

Jerebko was a little skinnier - they're listed about 10 pounds apart - and he plays more of a perimeter game. Physically, I see Theis as a jacked version of JJ. As to his game, it looks quite a bit different - more aggressive, possibly better passing and defense, but way too early to tell.
.

Yes, ten pounds does not seem like a lot, and strength is a bigger factor at that degree of difference. And my source is the eye test (caveat!) - both for strength and length. But ten pounds is a meaningful difference at this level of fitness.

I would have said that Theis is obviously longer, significantly longer, than Jerebko. But I have no number for his wingspan/standing reach. I guess I'd be willing to eat crow on this one, if someone had reliable information to the contrary.

Jerebko has some assets defensively - including physical aggression (remember that Brad put him in the starting lineup briefly last winter when he was complaining that his team wasn't playing physical); but he doesn't have great speed or strength and doesn't block shots. He's a "coach on the floor" and a leader in the team defense, talking and directing. He's got some of the "instigator" mentality that Ainge/Auerbach like, hitting guys when he comes in the game. I was sorry to lose him - he's a Celtic in the old sense, a real team player.

No, I don't mean that Theis reminds me of Jerebko. It's more like he will be taking the Jerebko minutes, when you consider Baynes will be taking the Amir ones, while Morris will be taking the Olynyk ones.

Aha. Well, that makes sense to me - Theis, iow, gets 10th-man minutes, in and out of the rotation.

If he keeps getting the ball and deflections and getting to the rim, perhaps Amir-level minutes is his upside this season.

I can't really think of a player comparable for him. He's like a hybrid of players. For example height to wingspan ratio he does remind me of Kirilenko, but he's bigger and not as skilled.

Being incomparable is an advantage. Note also Yabusele...
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 04:22:52 PM by ThePaintedArea »

Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2017, 12:03:55 PM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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Nader is a fearless gunner the issue seems to be his gun is a dribble drive to hoop from top of key. He does it well considering he's not super quick. I think he's mastered the art of taking his guy off the dribble and sealing him on his hip to the right of the basket.

He doesn't seem to excel at anything else but there is a place in the NBA for guys coming off the bench who can get buckets when you are in a drought.

Danny is giving this guy a long look in hopes something else breaks out in his game?
ok fine

Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2017, 12:17:32 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Nader is a fearless gunner the issue seems to be his gun is a dribble drive to hoop from top of key.

TP. I think if Nader learns to share the ball better and the second unit has offensive trouble he still might carve out an Evan Turner/Gerald Green role.

That said, I'm hoping we won't have so much offensive trouble on the second unit. Marcus Morris might be a good option; his efficiency last year wasn't great, but he was playing against first units - he might feast against 2d units in iso or on spot-ups. We are all hoping for good things from Tatum. Add one of the big three and Marcus, and the second units might hum.

If Nader keeps scoring he can force his way into the rotation, but I think he's got an uphill climb and will be sitting most nights unless there's an injury.

Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2017, 05:47:37 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Nader is a fearless gunner the issue seems to be his gun is a dribble drive to hoop from top of key.

TP. I think if Nader learns to share the ball better and the second unit has offensive trouble he still might carve out an Evan Turner/Gerald Green role.

That said, I'm hoping we won't have so much offensive trouble on the second unit. Marcus Morris might be a good option; his efficiency last year wasn't great, but he was playing against first units - he might feast against 2d units in iso or on spot-ups. We are all hoping for good things from Tatum. Add one of the big three and Marcus, and the second units might hum.

If Nader keeps scoring he can force his way into the rotation, but I think he's got an uphill climb and will be sitting most nights unless there's an injury.
FWIW, Nader was a decent 3 point shooter in the D League where he won D League Rookie of the Year and made the All D-League 2nd Team. He averged just shy of 4 apg there.

Obviously this is just the D-League but he had a pretty complete game there.
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Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2017, 07:30:12 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2017, 07:55:22 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Nader is a fearless gunner the issue seems to be his gun is a dribble drive to hoop from top of key.

TP. I think if Nader learns to share the ball better and the second unit has offensive trouble he still might carve out an Evan Turner/Gerald Green role.

That said, I'm hoping we won't have so much offensive trouble on the second unit. Marcus Morris might be a good option; his efficiency last year wasn't great, but he was playing against first units - he might feast against 2d units in iso or on spot-ups. We are all hoping for good things from Tatum. Add one of the big three and Marcus, and the second units might hum.

If Nader keeps scoring he can force his way into the rotation, but I think he's got an uphill climb and will be sitting most nights unless there's an injury.
FWIW, Nader was a decent 3 point shooter in the D League where he won D League Rookie of the Year and made the All D-League 2nd Team. He averged just shy of 4 apg there.

Obviously this is just the D-League but he had a pretty complete game there.

For perspective, former Celtic Vander Blue, who is just 1 year younger than Nader, was the D-League MVP (League not Rookie MVP) and was also all D-League 1st team the last 2 seasons. In addition, look how similar his numbers are to Nader:

Blue - Nader

FG% 43.5 - 44.7
FT% 80.7 - 79.4
3pt% 35.1 - 34.9
PPG 24.8 - 21.3
RPG 5.1 - 6.2
APG 3.0 - 3.9
TOV 2.1 - 3.7
SPG 1.6 - 1.0
True% 56.9 - 56.8


Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2017, 09:08:34 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Nader is a fearless gunner the issue seems to be his gun is a dribble drive to hoop from top of key.

TP. I think if Nader learns to share the ball better and the second unit has offensive trouble he still might carve out an Evan Turner/Gerald Green role.

That said, I'm hoping we won't have so much offensive trouble on the second unit. Marcus Morris might be a good option; his efficiency last year wasn't great, but he was playing against first units - he might feast against 2d units in iso or on spot-ups. We are all hoping for good things from Tatum. Add one of the big three and Marcus, and the second units might hum.

If Nader keeps scoring he can force his way into the rotation, but I think he's got an uphill climb and will be sitting most nights unless there's an injury.
FWIW, Nader was a decent 3 point shooter in the D League where he won D League Rookie of the Year and made the All D-League 2nd Team. He averged just shy of 4 apg there.

Obviously this is just the D-League but he had a pretty complete game there.

Here are some other stats from some of our past D-League rookies:

Terry Rozier
19.4 PTS., 8 AST. 6.4 REB, 1.9 STL, 2.7 TO, 33 MIN, 39% FG, 34% 3PT, 78% FT

RJ Hunter
18.1 PTS, 3.3 AST, 2.6 REB, 1.0 STL, 2.0 TO, 31 MIN, 39% FG, 32% 3PT, 7% FT

Jordan Mickey
17.4 PTS, 1.3 AST, 10.3 REB, 4.4 BLK, 2.1 TO, 53% FG, 35% 3PT, 74% FT

James Young
21.5 PTS, 2.0 AST, 4.8 REB, 1.5 STL, 2.6 TO, 33 MIN, 46% FG, 44% 3PT, 76% FT

Phil Pressey only played one D-League game as a rookie, finished wih 34 points, 8 assists, 7 rebounds and 3 steals. 

Just saying...if you want to even dream of cracking an NBA roster, then putting up dominant numbers at the D-League level is pretty much a bare minimum prerequisite. 

Even dominating at the Summer League means more to me then D-League.  Phil Pressey was never capable fo putting up anything close to 33 / 8 / 7 in a summer league game, and James young could never come close to averaging 21 PPG in the Summer League either.   
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 09:15:22 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2017, 08:02:43 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Nader is a fearless gunner the issue seems to be his gun is a dribble drive to hoop from top of key.

TP. I think if Nader learns to share the ball better and the second unit has offensive trouble he still might carve out an Evan Turner/Gerald Green role.

That said, I'm hoping we won't have so much offensive trouble on the second unit. Marcus Morris might be a good option; his efficiency last year wasn't great, but he was playing against first units - he might feast against 2d units in iso or on spot-ups. We are all hoping for good things from Tatum. Add one of the big three and Marcus, and the second units might hum.

If Nader keeps scoring he can force his way into the rotation, but I think he's got an uphill climb and will be sitting most nights unless there's an injury.
FWIW, Nader was a decent 3 point shooter in the D League where he won D League Rookie of the Year and made the All D-League 2nd Team. He averged just shy of 4 apg there.

Obviously this is just the D-League but he had a pretty complete game there.

Here are some other stats from some of our past D-League rookies:

Terry Rozier
19.4 PTS., 8 AST. 6.4 REB, 1.9 STL, 2.7 TO, 33 MIN, 39% FG, 34% 3PT, 78% FT

RJ Hunter
18.1 PTS, 3.3 AST, 2.6 REB, 1.0 STL, 2.0 TO, 31 MIN, 39% FG, 32% 3PT, 7% FT

Jordan Mickey
17.4 PTS, 1.3 AST, 10.3 REB, 4.4 BLK, 2.1 TO, 53% FG, 35% 3PT, 74% FT

James Young
21.5 PTS, 2.0 AST, 4.8 REB, 1.5 STL, 2.6 TO, 33 MIN, 46% FG, 44% 3PT, 76% FT

Phil Pressey only played one D-League game as a rookie, finished wih 34 points, 8 assists, 7 rebounds and 3 steals. 

Just saying...if you want to even dream of cracking an NBA roster, then putting up dominant numbers at the D-League level is pretty much a bare minimum prerequisite. 

Even dominating at the Summer League means more to me then D-League.  Phil Pressey was never capable fo putting up anything close to 33 / 8 / 7 in a summer league game, and James young could never come close to averaging 21 PPG in the Summer League either.
Totally. But at least he's done that and showed he has some skills. It's not like he's on the roster for no reason.
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Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2017, 04:27:27 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Theis is like a lite version of Ginobili

Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2017, 07:25:03 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Theis is like a lite version of Ginobili
lol what?

Ginobili was a dynamic offensive player who could score in a variety of ways and was capable of being, essentially, the back up PG for the Spurs because his ballhandling was so good.

Theis seems like a defense-first bruiser of a PF who plays smart and opportunistic on offense.

I really don't get this comparison at all.
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Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2017, 08:10:07 PM »

Online blink

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Theis is like a lite version of Ginobili
lol what?

Ginobili was a dynamic offensive player who could score in a variety of ways and was capable of being, essentially, the back up PG for the Spurs because his ballhandling was so good.

Theis seems like a defense-first bruiser of a PF who plays smart and opportunistic on offense.

I really don't get this comparison at all.

whoops, I thought we were still talking about Nader.  my bad...  This might be a def bruiser.  Lets hope so.

Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2017, 09:15:07 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Sorry, but this kid is a scrub. This definitely isn't the D-League and he looks sorry even vs the 3rd stringers of the Sixers.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 09:22:53 PM by Eddie20 »

Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2017, 09:24:00 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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He has a decent first game because he took every shot he could.   I concur, the Peter Principle in full display here, Nader is a but a D league guy.  I thought so during summer league and seeing him tonight struggle to stay in front of third string sixers is not heartening. 

I have a new guy to cringe when he touches the ball.  Nader aka "Lead-Killer"

Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2017, 01:59:15 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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did i see Nader and ojeleye as two top scorers-some nice cuts and finishes by Nader  and a fade away teardrop-
This is what they had him doing all last season and summer league-he had no previous history in college of being a gunner-James Young and Rj failed miserably
All season long with Red claws they had him shooting threes and taking it to hoop or kick
Doing fine for drafted at 56 and a end of bench guy in his rookie year.Only his first game at Boston Garden-

Re: nader is no james young-
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2017, 03:36:05 PM »

Online blink

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I think the nader hate has gotten a bit out of hand.  Nader is a decent player on offense
averaging 9 point / 2-3 rebounds a game over 16 min per game through the preseason so far.  yeah he had a bad game in the 2nd preseason game, developing players have bad games sometimes.  I have no idea how many minutes he will get going forward, probably depends on how well he can develop his defense.  But calling him a lead killer and a ball hog and a complete scrub based on 3 pre-season games?  Cmon guys.  Last night 15 points from 11 shots in 21 minutes.

I am not saying he is going to get big minutes this year, but he is showing signs of being a productive player.