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Author Topic: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"  (Read 5576 times)

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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2017, 10:30:06 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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When did kneeling become a sign of disrespect. Kaepernik (sp) was sitting through the anthem and he acceded to advise that kneeling was a more respectful act of protest. Since when did kneeling become a sign of disrespect?
not standing is against US code

US code? As in code of conduct or US law? I ask this question in all seriousness.
federal law. Its called the code of laws of the USA which is the official compilation and codification of the general and permanent federal statutes of the United States. It contains 52 titles (Titles 1-54, except Title 53 is reserved and Title 34 was repealed).


According to Title 36 (section 171) of the United States Code, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. There is no actual penalty for not standing or choosing to kneel, however.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title36/subtitle1/partA/chapter3&edition=prelim

Works out perfectly. Every player who kneeled was in (a) uniform.

When did the definition of patriotism become blind obsession with a song? I personally think the anthem is overplayed, thus losing it's value. Also, if you really want to take a deeper dive into this I suggest that you look at the entire Star Spangled Banner poem Francis Scott Key wrote in 1814. It's almost unrecognizable. The last stanza explicitly supports the murdering of slaves. The Anthem didn't officially become our anthem until 1931, as a matter of fact it was introduced into congress 7 times before it was passed. So this 'song' isn't something that's been attached to our nation for hundreds of years. It's been 87 years. The cause their protesting (the inequality of races in USA) has been a problem longer than our anthem has been around.

Finally, can we stop this false narative that it's a flag protest or anthem protest? That's complete and utter BS from the right. One of the best comparisons I heard on this was the following: "Saying NFL players are protesting the flag or anthem is like saying Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation." Why is it so hard for people to openly admit there's inequality in our country?

This. This again. Seriously, this obsession with the National Anthem is spooky. And don't even get me started on the Pledge of Allegiance. Fascist companies make kids swear a loyalty oath, not us.

These protests are not players protesting America. They're trying to make a statement that a certain percentage of the population is disenfranchised and discriminated against because of the color of their skin. Full stop.

If you want to kneel, kneel. If you don't, don't kneel. And if you get offended by people who kneel, that's your right, just as it is their right to offend you (and yes, in an employment at will situation, the employer does have the right to fire the employee; they'd just be crazy to do so in this case).

A friend of a friend wrote the following on FB. I think it summarizes the situation well:

"This 'fire the SOB's' thing was brilliantly calculated...Trump hasn't delivered anything: No wall, No money from Mexico, No healthcare plan, No cut in the deficit, No immigration reform/path to citizenship. No drain the swamp. No lock her up, No significant influx of manufacturing/coal jobs or most importantly, no personal culpability from him.

In the meantime, he 3AM tweets with the pettiness and self-obsession of a hormonal high school drama queen, he's chewing through key administration like M&M's, the North Korea conflict escalates, Isis and Al Qaeda continue to thrive, Texas and Florida under water, Puerto Rico, Caribbean islands and Mexico are in rubble, Gas prices streak back towards $3.00, Education is a mess and Washington has come to a complete halt, but the great "uniter" points his short little finger at everyone else.

So what's the plan amid all this chaos? Go to Alabama and have a pep rally & convince a bunch of Southerners that a bunch of uppity black folks up north are disrespecting our flag which means they are disrespecting us...He's convinced his base that despite his broken promises, complete dysfunction, total lack of effectiveness and accountability that THIS is the issue they should focus on. This allows them to pretend their racism is actually patriotism. He slips out the back door and leaves them in a fight that doesn't need to be fought. Divide and conquer...Maybe he's got his wall after all."


Mike
a lot of your post wasn't rational or based on anything factual.

Example:

 
Quote
these players are not protesting America.

FALSE

Kaepernick: I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people"
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691077/article/colin-kaepernick-explains-why-he-sat-during-national-anthem


He and players have yet to articulate how our country, with world class affirmative action programs giving minorities priority in the hiring process, is oppressive to blacks

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2017, 10:43:45 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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When I was in 8th grade I laughed during the Plege of Alligence. My teacher a black man whose family was slaves. Took me out out side a whipped me good he told me that you do not disrespect this country. It is the greatest country on earth. I went home and told my dad I was embarrassed by the teacher. He also spanked me really hard and said I disrespected our family and when you see the flag you better stand. I do and will and I will kick Colin's Ass if given the opportunity. Tired of entitlement jerkoffs like him.
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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2017, 10:44:27 AM »

Offline Moranis

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When did kneeling become a sign of disrespect. Kaepernik (sp) was sitting through the anthem and he acceded to advise that kneeling was a more respectful act of protest. Since when did kneeling become a sign of disrespect?
not standing is against US code

US code? As in code of conduct or US law? I ask this question in all seriousness.
federal law. Its called the code of laws of the USA which is the official compilation and codification of the general and permanent federal statutes of the United States. It contains 52 titles (Titles 1-54, except Title 53 is reserved and Title 34 was repealed).


According to Title 36 (section 171) of the United States Code, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. There is no actual penalty for not standing or choosing to kneel, however.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title36/subtitle1/partA/chapter3&edition=prelim

Works out perfectly. Every player who kneeled was in (a) uniform.

When did the definition of patriotism become blind obsession with a song? I personally think the anthem is overplayed, thus losing it's value. Also, if you really want to take a deeper dive into this I suggest that you look at the entire Star Spangled Banner poem Francis Scott Key wrote in 1814. It's almost unrecognizable. The last stanza explicitly supports the murdering of slaves. The Anthem didn't officially become our anthem until 1931, as a matter of fact it was introduced into congress 7 times before it was passed. So this 'song' isn't something that's been attached to our nation for hundreds of years. It's been 87 years. The cause their protesting (the inequality of races in USA) has been a problem longer than our anthem has been around.

Finally, can we stop this false narative that it's a flag protest or anthem protest? That's complete and utter BS from the right. One of the best comparisons I heard on this was the following: "Saying NFL players are protesting the flag or anthem is like saying Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation." Why is it so hard for people to openly admit there's inequality in our country?

This. This again. Seriously, this obsession with the National Anthem is spooky. And don't even get me started on the Pledge of Allegiance. Fascist companies make kids swear a loyalty oath, not us.

These protests are not players protesting America. They're trying to make a statement that a certain percentage of the population is disenfranchised and discriminated against because of the color of their skin. Full stop.

If you want to kneel, kneel. If you don't, don't kneel. And if you get offended by people who kneel, that's your right, just as it is their right to offend you (and yes, in an employment at will situation, the employer does have the right to fire the employee; they'd just be crazy to do so in this case).

A friend of a friend wrote the following on FB. I think it summarizes the situation well:

"This 'fire the SOB's' thing was brilliantly calculated...Trump hasn't delivered anything: No wall, No money from Mexico, No healthcare plan, No cut in the deficit, No immigration reform/path to citizenship. No drain the swamp. No lock her up, No significant influx of manufacturing/coal jobs or most importantly, no personal culpability from him.

In the meantime, he 3AM tweets with the pettiness and self-obsession of a hormonal high school drama queen, he's chewing through key administration like M&M's, the North Korea conflict escalates, Isis and Al Qaeda continue to thrive, Texas and Florida under water, Puerto Rico, Caribbean islands and Mexico are in rubble, Gas prices streak back towards $3.00, Education is a mess and Washington has come to a complete halt, but the great "uniter" points his short little finger at everyone else.

So what's the plan amid all this chaos? Go to Alabama and have a pep rally & convince a bunch of Southerners that a bunch of uppity black folks up north are disrespecting our flag which means they are disrespecting us...He's convinced his base that despite his broken promises, complete dysfunction, total lack of effectiveness and accountability that THIS is the issue they should focus on. This allows them to pretend their racism is actually patriotism. He slips out the back door and leaves them in a fight that doesn't need to be fought. Divide and conquer...Maybe he's got his wall after all."


Mike
a lot of your post wasn't rational or based on anything factual.

Example:

 
Quote
these players are not protesting America.

FALSE

Kaepernick: I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people"
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691077/article/colin-kaepernick-explains-why-he-sat-during-national-anthem


He and players have yet to articulate how our country, with world class affirmative action programs giving minorities priority in the hiring process, is oppressive to blacks
Not showing pride in a country is no where near the same team as protesting the country.

And apparently you didn't read the article you posted because he told you exactly what you claim he didn't tell you. 
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2017, 10:52:35 AM »

Offline D Dub

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Quote
These protests are not players protesting America.

Quote
I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

That's pretty specifically anti-America.

You guys are doing pretty well to bury the lead. 

As if you *really* don't know what the protests are all about...

Here is a hint, as long as white cops keep getting acquitted for needlessly shooting black citizens, the protests should and will continue. 

This isn't just normal person-to-person racism, it's state-backed racism that is condoned at the highest levels of our gov't.

What could be more un-American than that? 

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2017, 11:01:02 AM »

Offline More Banners

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Just heard that D-Wade is going to expand on his efforts last season and take a knee on defense as part of his rest schedule.

Wait, wrong thread.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2017, 11:01:02 AM »

Offline danglertx

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I actually like the NBA rule, but why does there have to be a rule. People should stand up for the flag out of respect for all it represents because once you start disrespecting the flag you lose respect for the country and the sense of patriotism that every country needs to progress.

Someone has to tell me though why kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful. Is it the act itself or the players expressed reason for kneeling. It cannot be the act itself. What if a person as so much reverence for the flag and anthem that he chooses to kneel rather than stand, would there still be outrage at that person. It therefore must be that the problem with kneeling is not the act itself but the intent. If the outrage is against the intent of the protester then we should have equal outrage with any acts done during the playing of the anthem that is intended for purposes other than solemn respect and celebration of our country.

I'm 45 and I can say, ever since I was a little kid I've been taught to stand for the National Anthem.  Why is it disrespectful?  I guess because society agreed that you stand to honor the flag.  If it was decided that everyone sit to honor the flag, I guess standing would be disrespectful.  When was it decided the men should open doors for women, or cover your mouth when you yawn, or who came up with the tie and why do we have to wear it to court?  We just agree to certain norms in society.  That is part of living in a society.

In the end, this is on the owners in my opinion.  When the employees are on company time, they control employee behavior, right down to putting tape over emblems on their shoes the owners don't like.  If I paid 2 billion dollars for a business, and some guy that I pay to work for me wants to protest something wearing my uniform that has the potential to hurt the business I just paid 2 billion for, that guy would be lucky to just get fired.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #81 on: September 29, 2017, 11:02:19 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
These protests are not players protesting America.

Quote
I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

That's pretty specifically anti-America.

You guys are doing pretty well to bury the lead. 

As if you *really* don't know what the protests are all about...

Here is a hint, as long as white cops keep getting acquitted for needlessly shooting black citizens, the protests should and will continue. 

This isn't just normal person-to-person racism, it's state-backed racism that is condoned at the highest levels of our gov't.

What could be more un-American than that?

He's specifically protesting the country. That's what people take offense to.

We should all advocate for social justice. At the same time, Michael Brown should in no way be the poster child for victims, and Colin Kaepernick and his anti-America, pro Castro views should in no way be the lead spokesman for the aggrieved.


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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #82 on: September 29, 2017, 11:22:31 AM »

Offline D Dub

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Quote
These protests are not players protesting America.

Quote
I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

That's pretty specifically anti-America.

You guys are doing pretty well to bury the lead. 

As if you *really* don't know what the protests are all about...

Here is a hint, as long as white cops keep getting acquitted for needlessly shooting black citizens, the protests should and will continue. 

This isn't just normal person-to-person racism, it's state-backed racism that is condoned at the highest levels of our gov't.

What could be more un-American than that?

He's specifically protesting the country. That's what people take offense to.

We should all advocate for social justice. At the same time, Michael Brown should in no way be the poster child for victims, and Colin Kaepernick and his anti-America, pro Castro views should in no way be the lead spokesman for the aggrieved.

No body is perfect, but regardless, he is doing the right thing to use his platform to bring about a conversation that most would prefer to ignore.   

When a country allows its police departments to literally get away with murder, time and time again on one side of the racial divide, then I believe it is appropriate to protest the country. 

Especially when that country doubles down on institutional racism by electing Trump.

We, as Americans, can do better.   

And I believe that when we start holding the bad apples in uniform accountable, I think you will see that pride in the flag restored.

Paid leave and acquittals for state-employed murderers?   
Hard to take pride in a flag that stands for that. 


Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #83 on: September 29, 2017, 11:38:39 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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And, I own my own business, for the record?

Then you don't have to stand if you decided to play the national anthem, do you? You have a choice. Why is it so important that you deny others the same choice that you enjoy?

Also, why do you care so much? Even if their contract could be terminated by the NBA (which an arbitrator would laugh at) for not doing so, why is it so important to you that they do stand? Do you actually understand that they're not protesting the flag, they're protesting inequality?

I don't care what they are protesting, I don't want to hear about it, I want to watch a effing basketball game.

Protest some other time.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #84 on: September 29, 2017, 12:04:57 PM »

Offline Moranis

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And, I own my own business, for the record?

Then you don't have to stand if you decided to play the national anthem, do you? You have a choice. Why is it so important that you deny others the same choice that you enjoy?

Also, why do you care so much? Even if their contract could be terminated by the NBA (which an arbitrator would laugh at) for not doing so, why is it so important to you that they do stand? Do you actually understand that they're not protesting the flag, they're protesting inequality?

I don't care what they are protesting, I don't want to hear about it, I want to watch a effing basketball game.

Protest some other time.
Is the anthem a basketball game?
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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #85 on: September 29, 2017, 12:05:11 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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And, I own my own business, for the record?

Then you don't have to stand if you decided to play the national anthem, do you? You have a choice. Why is it so important that you deny others the same choice that you enjoy?

Also, why do you care so much? Even if their contract could be terminated by the NBA (which an arbitrator would laugh at) for not doing so, why is it so important to you that they do stand? Do you actually understand that they're not protesting the flag, they're protesting inequality?

I don't care what they are protesting, I don't want to hear about it, I want to watch a effing basketball game.

Protest some other time.

Agreed. I don't watch C-SPAN for their bball opinions and I don't want to see politics in sports. Make a difference off the court/field, not stir up needless controversy on it.

Social injustice is something that should definitely be talked about. But I wouldn't exactly consider black America oppressed. I know some very successful black people. I also work in a field were I see the oppressed on a daily basis. They use it as a crutch to do very bad things, especially to each other. The stuff I see and hear is much worse than anything that garners national attention because it is not race driven. There are bad people in this world. Of all different races, religions, occupations, etc.

And of course racism is still prevalent throughout this country and this world. We have inarguably the most diverse population and the media likes to push their racial agenda to create hype. How many black billionaires has the rest of the world created compared to America? How many black CEO's are running foreign companies compared to domestic ones? To be honest, I don't know the numbers, but I believe we are still the land of opportunity for all.

We need to be better collectively. There is no one demographic at fault here. We are all accountable for our actions and the actions of a select few do not represent the majority.

With that said, there is a time and a place for everything. I have no issues with locking arms during the anthem or putting your right hand over your heart and your left hand over the shoulder of the person to your left. Regardless of what message they are trying to convey, taking a knee is disrespectful and as long as you willingly reside here and claim citizenship, you should stand for your anthem. I appreciate peaceful protests but there is a time and a place for everything, and I feel like sports is an escape from the world outside the stadiums and arenas in which we visit.
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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #86 on: September 29, 2017, 12:19:00 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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And, I own my own business, for the record?

Then you don't have to stand if you decided to play the national anthem, do you? You have a choice. Why is it so important that you deny others the same choice that you enjoy?

Also, why do you care so much? Even if their contract could be terminated by the NBA (which an arbitrator would laugh at) for not doing so, why is it so important to you that they do stand? Do you actually understand that they're not protesting the flag, they're protesting inequality?

I don't care what they are protesting, I don't want to hear about it, I want to watch a effing basketball game.

Protest some other time.
Is the anthem a basketball game?

It's part of the entire experience, if you attend the game. As a paying customer I don't want to see protests. I'm not interested in that, so I guess until the protests stop I will not be attending any games, and will be taking my consumer dollars elsewhere.

Luckily enough, I can just skip over watching the player intros and national anthem, so I still get to watch the game on television. But if these protests start bleeding into the actual game then I'll stop watching entirely.

I refuse to pay money to watch someone protest something. That isn't entertaining, and if I am paying money to be entertained, I expect to be entertained, not annoyed.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #87 on: September 29, 2017, 12:23:46 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Good news guys, conservative social media sites are getting to the bottom of the issue and posting the stories the LSM won't touch:



Just in case anyone was wondering what their dumbest, angriest uncle was gonna be worked up about this weekend.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #88 on: September 29, 2017, 12:35:46 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Good news guys, conservative social media sites are getting to the bottom of the issue and posting the stories the LSM won't touch:



Just in case anyone was wondering what their dumbest, angriest uncle was gonna be worked up about this weekend.

I'm going to assume that is a fake pic.

Which of course is rather disgusting for someone to make something like that up.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #89 on: September 29, 2017, 12:38:43 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Just stop this nonsense already.

Stand up when the Anthem plays.

Do your protests elsewhere in your own time..on social media..on twitter .

Dont you get it

If you do this while the anthem is playing it increases/raises awareness

If a player speaks out on his own time, usually nobody is going to give a rats azz