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Author Topic: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"  (Read 5577 times)

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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2017, 09:14:40 AM »

Offline jaketwice

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I don't care if the players protest - but black lives matter is not based on reality. Police kill civilians in places where there is a higher instance of violent crime. It's not racist to say that FBI crime statistics indicate that black people are both disproportionately accused - and convicted - of violent crime.

The death of The Eric Garner was indeed a tragedy, and that officer was a psycho. But the widespread media play of the incident doesn't make every killing of a black person by police unreasonable under the circumstances of those killings.

I think we don't talk about how important feeling "special" is to people. Or if we do, we pass it off as if wanting to feel special or important isn't a central human motivation. Black people are people first - black second. Selfish, hopeful, fearful: BLM is as much about ignoring the humanity that leads one to want the self important feeling associated with protest - as it is with preventing a legitimate problem. Maybe more so.


Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2017, 09:18:28 AM »

Online Roy H.

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The whole point was to show lack of respect toward the nation that mistreats its citizens. If my understanding is correct, that should clear up any confusion about intent or why that moment was chosen.

Intentional disrespect to raise awareness. Well, we've talked more about the protest act itself  than the point it was intended to raise awareness of.  So the whole thing has been a gross failure thus far on points.



Why would you remain in a country that "mistreats" you, when you can simply pack your bags, get on a plane, and go elsewhere, where you'll be treated better?

Maybe you still love your country but can still manage to see it has faults and hold out hope that things can be changed for the better. 

Also, despite its flaws, the USA is still an amazing country to live in.  Certainly no guarantees that "elsewhere" comes close to what the US provides.    You can love your country yet still have your issues with it.

At the same time, attacking America while celebrating Fidel Castro makes you look like a complete idiot.


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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2017, 09:23:47 AM »

Offline Granath

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Just stop this nonsense already.

Stand up when the Anthem plays.

Do your protests elsewhere in your own time..on social media..on twitter .

Yeah, that's not how protests work.

Sure it is. For 99% of us, if we protest at work we get fired.

99% of us (at least) aren't public figures who generate millions of dollars of revenue for our employers.

So? They have no greater right to protest at work than the rest of us.

I suspect that Silver is addressing the rule now because he sees this is costing the NFL revenue.

Actually, they do. They have an employment contract and a set of negotiated rules. You, on the other hand, are very likely an employee-at-will.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2017, 09:24:04 AM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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When did the definition of patriotism become blind obsession with a song? I personally think the anthem is overplayed, thus losing it's value. Also, if you really want to take a deeper dive into this I suggest that you look at the entire Star Spangled Banner poem Francis Scott Key wrote in 1814. It's almost unrecognizable. The last stanza explicitly supports the murdering of slaves. The Anthem didn't officially become our anthem until 1931, as a matter of fact it was introduced into congress 7 times before it was passed. So this 'song' isn't something that's been attached to our nation for hundreds of years. It's been 87 years. The cause their protesting (the inequality of races in USA) has been a problem longer than our anthem has been around.

Finally, can we stop this false narative that it's a flag protest or anthem protest? That's complete and utter BS from the right. One of the best comparisons I heard on this was the following: "Saying NFL players are protesting the flag or anthem is like saying Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation." Why is it so hard for people to openly admit there's inequality in our country?

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2017, 09:27:26 AM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Why are they playing the anthem anyway?

What's the point? They're all American teams (besides Toronto), so no national pride involved. Very strange tradition.

In international football (or soccer) matches when the national anthem is played, it's more or less expected that the players sing along. Sometimes they get critisized if they don't.

So shouldn't NBA or NFL players also be punished when they don't sing the anthem? And if they forget the lyrics, should they get banned for a couple of games?

I find it all quite hilarious and stupid. You let people make their own decisions. If you think that the best way to deal with all this is to dress up like a chicken and do the bird dance during the anthem by all means show us those moves. At least it would be entertaining.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2017, 09:37:44 AM »

Offline Granath

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When did kneeling become a sign of disrespect. Kaepernik (sp) was sitting through the anthem and he acceded to advise that kneeling was a more respectful act of protest. Since when did kneeling become a sign of disrespect?
not standing is against US code

US code? As in code of conduct or US law? I ask this question in all seriousness.
federal law. Its called the code of laws of the USA which is the official compilation and codification of the general and permanent federal statutes of the United States. It contains 52 titles (Titles 1-54, except Title 53 is reserved and Title 34 was repealed).


According to Title 36 (section 171) of the United States Code, “all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.” There is no actual penalty for not standing or choosing to kneel, however.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title36/subtitle1/partA/chapter3&edition=prelim

Thank you. I did not know it was the law.

In effect, the statute was rendered unconstitutional with Texas v. Johnson in 1989 and again in United States vs. Eichman. While both of those apply to Title 18 of the same code, the precedent would undoubtedly carry over. Any attempted enforcement of said law would be quickly thrown out and the party attempting to enforce such law would be summarily drummed out of court by the Judge. Also, Education v. Barnette would also certainly apply.

In short, you're not breaking the law by not standing. It's an empty, unenforceable "law" that is on the books only to celebrate fake patriotism.


Personally, I have zero issues with kneeling. I have refused to say the pledge for 40 years now because I don't believe that there's liberty or justice for all. There's liberty and justice for the rich. But if you're poor, and especially if you're a minority, there's little justice to be had.

I also think we chose a ****ty song for the national anthem.

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,


Is not exactly inclusive and that's part of the complete version of the Star Spangled Banner. It also mentioned "freedmen" which excluded the vast majority of minorities at that time. But it's not a protest against the song. Or the flag. Or the USA. It's a protest against inequality, no different than this:

 

Or Ali's protest against going to Vietnam (Clay v. United States).

But I guess some people here think those uppity minorities should have shut their mouths too, eh?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 09:48:28 AM by Granath »
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2017, 09:59:46 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Just stop this nonsense already.

Stand up when the Anthem plays.

Do your protests elsewhere in your own time..on social media..on twitter .

Yeah, that's not how protests work.

Sure it is. For 99% of us, if we protest at work we get fired.

99% of us (at least) aren't public figures who generate millions of dollars of revenue for our employers.

So? They have no greater right to protest at work than the rest of us.

I suspect that Silver is addressing the rule now because he sees this is costing the NFL revenue.

Actually, they do. They have an employment contract and a set of negotiated rules. You, on the other hand, are very likely an employee-at-will.

Actually they don't. Where in the negotiated contract are players given the right to protest at work?

And, I own my own business, for the record?


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2017, 10:07:35 AM »

Offline Granath

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And, I own my own business, for the record?

Then you don't have to stand if you decided to play the national anthem, do you? You have a choice. Why is it so important that you deny others the same choice that you enjoy?

Also, why do you care so much? Even if their contract could be terminated by the NBA (which an arbitrator would laugh at) for not doing so, why is it so important to you that they do stand? Do you actually understand that they're not protesting the flag, they're protesting inequality?
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2017, 10:14:58 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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When did kneeling become a sign of disrespect. Kaepernik (sp) was sitting through the anthem and he acceded to advise that kneeling was a more respectful act of protest. Since when did kneeling become a sign of disrespect?
not standing is against US code

US code? As in code of conduct or US law? I ask this question in all seriousness.
federal law. Its called the code of laws of the USA which is the official compilation and codification of the general and permanent federal statutes of the United States. It contains 52 titles (Titles 1-54, except Title 53 is reserved and Title 34 was repealed).


According to Title 36 (section 171) of the United States Code, “all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.” There is no actual penalty for not standing or choosing to kneel, however.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title36/subtitle1/partA/chapter3&edition=prelim

Thank you. I did not know it was the law.

In effect, the statute was rendered unconstitutional with Texas v. Johnson in 1989 and again in United States vs. Eichman. While both of those apply to Title 18 of the same code, the precedent would undoubtedly carry over. Any attempted enforcement of said law would be quickly thrown out and the party attempting to enforce such law would be summarily drummed out of court by the Judge. Also, Education v. Barnette would also certainly apply.

In short, you're not breaking the law by not standing. It's an empty, unenforceable "law" that is on the books only to celebrate fake patriotism.


Personally, I have zero issues with kneeling. I have refused to say the pledge for 40 years now because I don't believe that there's liberty or justice for all. There's liberty and justice for the rich. But if you're poor, and especially if you're a minority, there's little justice to be had.

I also think we chose a ****ty song for the national anthem.

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,


Is not exactly inclusive and that's part of the complete version of the Star Spangled Banner. It also mentioned "freedmen" which excluded the vast majority of minorities at that time. But it's not a protest against the song. Or the flag. Or the USA. It's a protest against inequality, no different than this:

 

Or Ali's protest against going to Vietnam (Clay v. United States).

But I guess some people here think those uppity minorities should have shut their mouths too, eh?
I like how you pick one lyric of our anthem and take it completely out of context to fit your agenda. You realize that slave lyric was referring  to the British as well as the colonial Marines right?

"The Star-Spangled Banner" in no way glorifies or celebrates slavery. The middle two verses of Key's lyric vilify the British enemy in the War of 1812, what Key refers to in Verse 3 as "hirelings and slaves." This enemy included both whites and blacks, largely British professional soldiers (hirelings) but also the Corps of Colonial Marines (slaves). The Colonial Marines were escaped black American slaves who joined British forces because of the promise of freedom in return for fighting their former masters.
I was on board with Kaepernick until....
I was on board with Kaepernick until....
Fortunately, Britain honored this promise after the war, relocating the former slaves and their families to Halifax and Trinidad. For Key, however, the British mercenaries were scoundrels and the Colonial Marines were traitors who threatened to spark a national insurrection.
The graphic language of Key's denunciation of this British enemy led to the removal of Verse 3 in sheet music editions of the song in World War I, when the United States and Britain became staunch allies.
Yet in 1814 Key's lyric honored American soldiers both black and white. "The Star-Spangled Banner" celebrates the heroes who defended Fort McHenry in the face of almost certain defeat against the most powerful gunships of the era. America's soldiers included mainly whites, but also free and escaped blacks. Escaped slave William Williams served in the US infantry at Fort McHenry and was killed by a fragment of a British bomb. Another escaped slave, Charles Ball, writes in his memoirs of being among the American soldiers of the Chesapeake Bay Flotilla who courageously repelled a night attack and saved the city. "The Star-Spangled Banner" thus honors American military heroes, black and white, without regard to race. In this respect, "The Star-Spangled Banner" is not racist.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 10:22:10 AM by CelticsElite »

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2017, 10:22:02 AM »

Online Roy H.

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And, I own my own business, for the record?

Then you don't have to stand if you decided to play the national anthem, do you? You have a choice. Why is it so important that you deny others the same choice that you enjoy?

Also, why do you care so much? Even if their contract could be terminated by the NBA (which an arbitrator would laugh at) for not doing so, why is it so important to you that they do stand? Do you actually understand that they're not protesting the flag, they're protesting inequality?

Kaepernick was specifically protesting America, while mocking cops and celebrating an evil dictator.

Also, every player in the NFL or NBA can make the same choice I did. When you have an employer, however, there are rules.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2017, 10:22:05 AM »

Offline mef730

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When did kneeling become a sign of disrespect. Kaepernik (sp) was sitting through the anthem and he acceded to advise that kneeling was a more respectful act of protest. Since when did kneeling become a sign of disrespect?
not standing is against US code

US code? As in code of conduct or US law? I ask this question in all seriousness.
federal law. Its called the code of laws of the USA which is the official compilation and codification of the general and permanent federal statutes of the United States. It contains 52 titles (Titles 1-54, except Title 53 is reserved and Title 34 was repealed).


According to Title 36 (section 171) of the United States Code, “all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.” There is no actual penalty for not standing or choosing to kneel, however.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title36/subtitle1/partA/chapter3&edition=prelim

Works out perfectly. Every player who kneeled was in (a) uniform.

When did the definition of patriotism become blind obsession with a song? I personally think the anthem is overplayed, thus losing it's value. Also, if you really want to take a deeper dive into this I suggest that you look at the entire Star Spangled Banner poem Francis Scott Key wrote in 1814. It's almost unrecognizable. The last stanza explicitly supports the murdering of slaves. The Anthem didn't officially become our anthem until 1931, as a matter of fact it was introduced into congress 7 times before it was passed. So this 'song' isn't something that's been attached to our nation for hundreds of years. It's been 87 years. The cause their protesting (the inequality of races in USA) has been a problem longer than our anthem has been around.

Finally, can we stop this false narative that it's a flag protest or anthem protest? That's complete and utter BS from the right. One of the best comparisons I heard on this was the following: "Saying NFL players are protesting the flag or anthem is like saying Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation." Why is it so hard for people to openly admit there's inequality in our country?

This. This again. Seriously, this obsession with the National Anthem is spooky. And don't even get me started on the Pledge of Allegiance. Fascist companies make kids swear a loyalty oath, not us.

These protests are not players protesting America. They're trying to make a statement that a certain percentage of the population is disenfranchised and discriminated against because of the color of their skin. Full stop.

If you want to kneel, kneel. If you don't, don't kneel. And if you get offended by people who kneel, that's your right, just as it is their right to offend you (and yes, in an employment at will situation, the employer does have the right to fire the employee; they'd just be crazy to do so in this case).

A friend of a friend wrote the following on FB. I think it summarizes the situation well:

"This 'fire the SOB's' thing was brilliantly calculated...Trump hasn't delivered anything: No wall, No money from Mexico, No healthcare plan, No cut in the deficit, No immigration reform/path to citizenship. No drain the swamp. No lock her up, No significant influx of manufacturing/coal jobs or most importantly, no personal culpability from him.

In the meantime, he 3AM tweets with the pettiness and self-obsession of a hormonal high school drama queen, he's chewing through key administration like M&M's, the North Korea conflict escalates, Isis and Al Qaeda continue to thrive, Texas and Florida under water, Puerto Rico, Caribbean islands and Mexico are in rubble, Gas prices streak back towards $3.00, Education is a mess and Washington has come to a complete halt, but the great "uniter" points his short little finger at everyone else.

So what's the plan amid all this chaos? Go to Alabama and have a pep rally & convince a bunch of Southerners that a bunch of uppity black folks up north are disrespecting our flag which means they are disrespecting us...He's convinced his base that despite his broken promises, complete dysfunction, total lack of effectiveness and accountability that THIS is the issue they should focus on. This allows them to pretend their racism is actually patriotism. He slips out the back door and leaves them in a fight that doesn't need to be fought. Divide and conquer...Maybe he's got his wall after all."


Mike
Tickets for the 2017-18 season for sale at face value! Thread here: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93612.0

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2017, 10:23:56 AM »

Offline Granath

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When did kneeling become a sign of disrespect. Kaepernik (sp) was sitting through the anthem and he acceded to advise that kneeling was a more respectful act of protest. Since when did kneeling become a sign of disrespect?
not standing is against US code

US code? As in code of conduct or US law? I ask this question in all seriousness.
federal law. Its called the code of laws of the USA which is the official compilation and codification of the general and permanent federal statutes of the United States. It contains 52 titles (Titles 1-54, except Title 53 is reserved and Title 34 was repealed).


According to Title 36 (section 171) of the United States Code, “all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.” There is no actual penalty for not standing or choosing to kneel, however.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title36/subtitle1/partA/chapter3&edition=prelim

Thank you. I did not know it was the law.

In effect, the statute was rendered unconstitutional with Texas v. Johnson in 1989 and again in United States vs. Eichman. While both of those apply to Title 18 of the same code, the precedent would undoubtedly carry over. Any attempted enforcement of said law would be quickly thrown out and the party attempting to enforce such law would be summarily drummed out of court by the Judge. Also, Education v. Barnette would also certainly apply.

In short, you're not breaking the law by not standing. It's an empty, unenforceable "law" that is on the books only to celebrate fake patriotism.


Personally, I have zero issues with kneeling. I have refused to say the pledge for 40 years now because I don't believe that there's liberty or justice for all. There's liberty and justice for the rich. But if you're poor, and especially if you're a minority, there's little justice to be had.

I also think we chose a ****ty song for the national anthem.

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,


Is not exactly inclusive and that's part of the complete version of the Star Spangled Banner. It also mentioned "freedmen" which excluded the vast majority of minorities at that time. But it's not a protest against the song. Or the flag. Or the USA. It's a protest against inequality, no different than this:

 

Or Ali's protest against going to Vietnam (Clay v. United States).

But I guess some people here think those uppity minorities should have shut their mouths too, eh?
I like how you pick one lyric of our anthem and take it completely out of context to fit your agenda. You realize that slave lyric was redesign to the British as well as the colonial Marines right?

"The Star-Spangled Banner" in no way glorifies or celebrates slavery. The middle two verses of Key's lyric vilify the British enemy in the War of 1812, what Key refers to in Verse 3 as "hirelings and slaves." This enemy included both whites and blacks, largely British professional soldiers (hirelings) but also the Corps of Colonial Marines (slaves). The Colonial Marines were escaped black American slaves who joined British forces because of the promise of freedom in return for fighting their former masters.
I was on board with Kaepernick until....
I was on board with Kaepernick until....
Fortunately, Britain honored this promise after the war, relocating the former slaves and their families to Halifax and Trinidad. For Key, however, the British mercenaries were scoundrels and the Colonial Marines were traitors who threatened to spark a national insurrection.
The graphic language of Key's denunciation of this British enemy led to the removal of Verse 3 in sheet music editions of the song in World War I, when the United States and Britain became staunch allies.
Yet in 1814 Key's lyric honored American soldiers both black and white. "The Star-Spangled Banner" celebrates the heroes who defended Fort McHenry in the face of almost certain defeat against the most powerful gunships of the era. America's soldiers included mainly whites, but also free and escaped blacks. Escaped slave William Williams served in the US infantry at Fort McHenry and was killed by a fragment of a British bomb. Another escaped slave, Charles Ball, writes in his memoirs of being among the American soldiers of the Chesapeake Bay Flotilla who courageously repelled a night attack and saved the city. "The Star-Spangled Banner" thus honors American military heroes, black and white, without regard to race. In this respect, "The Star-Spangled Banner" is not racist.

I like how you pick one thing out of my post and take it completely out of context to fit your agenda.

You realize the protest isn't about the anthem, don't you? It's about inequality. That the song talks about slaves doesn't help things much but in the long run it's not really relevant, is it?
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2017, 10:24:02 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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At the same time, attacking America while celebrating Fidel Castro makes you look like a complete idiot.
And how does booing during the national anthem while complaining other are disrespecting it make you look?
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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2017, 10:25:45 AM »

Online Roy H.

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When did kneeling become a sign of disrespect. Kaepernik (sp) was sitting through the anthem and he acceded to advise that kneeling was a more respectful act of protest. Since when did kneeling become a sign of disrespect?
not standing is against US code

US code? As in code of conduct or US law? I ask this question in all seriousness.
federal law. Its called the code of laws of the USA which is the official compilation and codification of the general and permanent federal statutes of the United States. It contains 52 titles (Titles 1-54, except Title 53 is reserved and Title 34 was repealed).


According to Title 36 (section 171) of the United States Code, “all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.” There is no actual penalty for not standing or choosing to kneel, however.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title36/subtitle1/partA/chapter3&edition=prelim

Thank you. I did not know it was the law.

In effect, the statute was rendered unconstitutional with Texas v. Johnson in 1989 and again in United States vs. Eichman. While both of those apply to Title 18 of the same code, the precedent would undoubtedly carry over. Any attempted enforcement of said law would be quickly thrown out and the party attempting to enforce such law would be summarily drummed out of court by the Judge. Also, Education v. Barnette would also certainly apply.

In short, you're not breaking the law by not standing. It's an empty, unenforceable "law" that is on the books only to celebrate fake patriotism.


Personally, I have zero issues with kneeling. I have refused to say the pledge for 40 years now because I don't believe that there's liberty or justice for all. There's liberty and justice for the rich. But if you're poor, and especially if you're a minority, there's little justice to be had.

I also think we chose a ****ty song for the national anthem.

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,


Is not exactly inclusive and that's part of the complete version of the Star Spangled Banner. It also mentioned "freedmen" which excluded the vast majority of minorities at that time. But it's not a protest against the song. Or the flag. Or the USA. It's a protest against inequality, no different than this:

 

Or Ali's protest against going to Vietnam (Clay v. United States).

But I guess some people here think those uppity minorities should have shut their mouths too, eh?
I like how you pick one lyric of our anthem and take it completely out of context to fit your agenda. You realize that slave lyric was redesign to the British as well as the colonial Marines right?

"The Star-Spangled Banner" in no way glorifies or celebrates slavery. The middle two verses of Key's lyric vilify the British enemy in the War of 1812, what Key refers to in Verse 3 as "hirelings and slaves." This enemy included both whites and blacks, largely British professional soldiers (hirelings) but also the Corps of Colonial Marines (slaves). The Colonial Marines were escaped black American slaves who joined British forces because of the promise of freedom in return for fighting their former masters.
I was on board with Kaepernick until....
I was on board with Kaepernick until....
Fortunately, Britain honored this promise after the war, relocating the former slaves and their families to Halifax and Trinidad. For Key, however, the British mercenaries were scoundrels and the Colonial Marines were traitors who threatened to spark a national insurrection.
The graphic language of Key's denunciation of this British enemy led to the removal of Verse 3 in sheet music editions of the song in World War I, when the United States and Britain became staunch allies.
Yet in 1814 Key's lyric honored American soldiers both black and white. "The Star-Spangled Banner" celebrates the heroes who defended Fort McHenry in the face of almost certain defeat against the most powerful gunships of the era. America's soldiers included mainly whites, but also free and escaped blacks. Escaped slave William Williams served in the US infantry at Fort McHenry and was killed by a fragment of a British bomb. Another escaped slave, Charles Ball, writes in his memoirs of being among the American soldiers of the Chesapeake Bay Flotilla who courageously repelled a night attack and saved the city. "The Star-Spangled Banner" thus honors American military heroes, black and white, without regard to race. In this respect, "The Star-Spangled Banner" is not racist.

I like how you pick one thing out of my post and take it completely out of context to fit your agenda.

You realize the protest isn't about the anthem, don't you? It's about inequality. That the song talks about slaves doesn't help things much but in the long run it's not really relevant, is it?

If it's irrelevant why did you bring it up?


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2017, 10:28:08 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
These protests are not players protesting America.

Quote
“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color.

That's pretty specifically anti-America.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...