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Author Topic: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"  (Read 6465 times)

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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2017, 05:49:10 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Just stop this nonsense already.

Stand up when the Anthem plays.

Do your protests elsewhere in your own time..on social media..on twitter .

Yeah, that's not how protests work.

Sure it is. For 99% of us, if we protest at work we get fired.
Which is wrong. Simply because many are wrong does change those who are right.

Seriously? Our employers should pay us to protest?
They are paid to play basketball, not to stand for the anthem. 

Their paid to do as their employer asks them to do (within the law).  If they don't like the terms they can choose not to play.  Nobody is forcing anyone to play basketball.  If you want to do it professionally, you have to follow the employers rules.

This is a simple concept that shouldn't be very difficult for anyone to understand.
This is complete bull. You are essentially comparing general employment to prostitution. Employers have a responsibility to watch out for their employees interests. That is part of the quid pro quo of your employment. Where they are negligent in doing so the employee is within their right to complain.

Of course this is all irrelevant to this situation as these players aren't refusing to play basketball. They are using the spotlight they are given to make a statement on a national issue.

It's just crazy how so many people complain about professional sports players not taking on social responsibility, yet when they do they get attacked for it. They should be applauded for standing up for those they represent regardless of whether you agree with their stance or not.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2017, 06:07:26 AM »

Offline More Banners

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The whole point was to show lack of respect toward the nation that mistreats its citizens. If my understanding is correct, that should clear up any confusion about intent or why that moment was chosen.

Intentional disrespect to raise awareness. Well, we've talked more about the protest act itself  than the point it was intended to raise awareness of.  So the whole thing has been a gross failure thus far on points.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2017, 06:48:49 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I hope the players do what the feel is right and not what they feel they are supposed to do. All this rhetoric about disrespecting the flag and disrespecting the country is total hogwash. Where would this country be if it were not for protest?

Quote
The Human Rights Act makes it illegal to discriminate on a wide range of grounds including 'sex, race, color, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status

Might as well go ahead and strike that whole thing out. Standing or not standing for the national anthem is irrelevant in how much of a "Patriot" you are. It is also irrelevant to the game of basketball. While it began with Kaepernick, it exploded with Trump's comments.

I realize this thread is about Silver's comments in particular, but I agree with others that this is more about the bottom line than not protesting at work. As long as they do their jobs on the basketball court, it should not matter.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2017, 06:53:02 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Just stop this nonsense already.

Stand up when the Anthem plays.

Do your protests elsewhere in your own time..on social media..on twitter .

Yeah, that's not how protests work.

Sure it is. For 99% of us, if we protest at work we get fired.
Which is wrong. Simply because many are wrong does change those who are right.

Seriously? Our employers should pay us to protest?
They are paid to play basketball, not to stand for the anthem. 

Their paid to do as their employer asks them to do (within the law).  If they don't like the terms they can choose not to play.  Nobody is forcing anyone to play basketball.  If you want to do it professionally, you have to follow the employers rules.

This is a simple concept that shouldn't be very difficult for anyone to understand.
This is complete bull. You are essentially comparing general employment to prostitution. Employers have a responsibility to watch out for their employees interests. That is part of the quid pro quo of your employment. Where they are negligent in doing so the employee is within their right to complain.

Of course this is all irrelevant to this situation as these players aren't refusing to play basketball. They are using the spotlight they are given to make a statement on a national issue.

It's just crazy how so many people complain about professional sports players not taking on social responsibility, yet when they do they get attacked for it. They should be applauded for standing up for those they represent regardless of whether you agree with their stance or not.
Employers and employees are both requirement to meet the terms of the employment contract.  There is no obligation on the employer's part to watch out for their employee's interest if they are not work related. 

There are plenty of rules that NBA players must adhere to that aren't specifically about playing basketball.  There are rules on interacting with the media.  There are dress code requirements.  Standing for the anthem is one of those rules. 

I don't think most people care what players do on their off time as long as it is not illegal or detrimental to their playing basketball. 

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2017, 07:03:31 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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the flag means so much to so many and this is honored by the playing of the anthem and facing the flag before the games. What people are saying is ..allow this solemn moment to honor the country.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2017, 07:18:03 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
It's just crazy how so many people complain about professional sports players not taking on social responsibility, yet when they do they get attacked for it. They should be applauded for standing up for those they represent regardless of whether you agree with their stance or not.

This is true, to large extent.   As a veteran, the flag is a sacred symbol to me.  I am not bothered at all by the standing and linking arms.   The kneeling I think is their right, but I think is disrespectful.  Thankfully, I have something called a remote control which can change channels and come back when it is over.

I hope the Celtics stand and link arms.   It is respectful, shows your supporting the movement and doesn't disrespect the flag.   Our history is terrible, we can't change that but we can change the future.  If they don't I will change channels and come back to the game.   

Quote
This is complete bull. You are essentially comparing general employment to prostitution. Employers have a responsibility to watch out for their employees interests. That is part of the quid pro quo of your employment. Where they are negligent in doing so the employee is within their right to complain.

What about " At Will employment"?  I lot of folks are "At Will" in the country, and if they are they have no responsibility to watch our for their interests.

Quote
Many people are surprised to learn, whether from an employment contract or employee handbook, that they are an "at-will employee." This means that your employer can terminate you at any time, for any cause -- with or without notice. An employer has every right to walk up to an at-will employee and say, "I don't like that your favorite color is purple. You're fired." There are very few, if any, remedies for you, unless your employer did something to violate your employee rights or broke labor laws..

http://employment.findlaw.com/hiring-process/at-will-employee-faq-s.html

Now the NFL has a union which offers some protections. 

Quote
The whole point was to show lack of respect toward the nation that mistreats its citizens. If my understanding is correct, that should clear up any confusion about intent or why that moment was chosen.

Intentional disrespect to raise awareness. Well, we've talked more about the protest act itself  than the point it was intended to raise awareness of.  So the whole thing has been a gross failure thus far on points

I don't think it is working for them.   Though I agree with their intent that no citizen should be disrespected. 

Quote
Americans Hate Kneeling For The Anthem. The polls show that Americans donít like players kneeling for the anthem. According to the Reuters/Ipsos poll, 69% of Americans say they stand in silence while the national anthem is played. And just 40% of Americans agree with former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernickís stance on the issue, compared with 51% who disagree.

Quote
Americans Are In Favor Of Requiring Players To Stand. According to the Reuters/Ipsos poll, 58% of Americans believe that players should be required by the NFL to stand for the anthem, to 33% opposing. That same poll shows that 43% of Americans oppose how the NFL is handling the issue.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21624/polls-what-do-americans-think-nfl-players-kneeling-ben-shapiro#

Now most do not agree that the players should be fired.  But I hope that we stand for anthem as Celtics.   

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2017, 07:22:18 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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The whole point was to show lack of respect toward the nation that mistreats its citizens. If my understanding is correct, that should clear up any confusion about intent or why that moment was chosen.

Intentional disrespect to raise awareness. Well, we've talked more about the protest act itself  than the point it was intended to raise awareness of.  So the whole thing has been a gross failure thus far on points.
How does the US mistreat its citizens?  The US provides great opportunity for its citizens.  NBA and NFL players are prime examples of that opportunity.  Not surprising at all that protests by overpaid men playing a game fall flat to ordinary citizens making do with a lot less. 



Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2017, 07:36:10 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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I disagree with you that the more fortunate with access should not  air their political grievances. I agree with you that a different forum other than playing the anthem should be used.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2017, 07:37:58 AM »

Online Roy H.

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It is respectful, shows your supporting the movement and doesn't disrespect the flag.

What is a the movement?  I'd like to hear more of the protesting players articulate this.

Is it BLM? Is it a campaign against police brutality? What reforms should be put in place? Is it just anti-Trump? How does wearing socks depicting police as pigs and shirts celebrating Fidel Castro fit into their protest, if at all?

What are their views on classism vs. racism? Crime in general?

Instead, we get a knee and the majority of players say and do little or nothing of significance.


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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2017, 08:22:30 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Quote
It's just crazy how so many people complain about professional sports players not taking on social responsibility, yet when they do they get attacked for it. They should be applauded for standing up for those they represent regardless of whether you agree with their stance or not.

This is true, to large extent.   As a veteran, the flag is a sacred symbol to me.  I am not bothered at all by the standing and linking arms.   The kneeling I think is their right, but I think is disrespectful.  Thankfully, I have something called a remote control which can change channels and come back when it is over.

I hope the Celtics stand and link arms.   It is respectful, shows your supporting the movement and doesn't disrespect the flag.   Our history is terrible, we can't change that but we can change the future.  If they don't I will change channels and come back to the game.   

Quote
This is complete bull. You are essentially comparing general employment to prostitution. Employers have a responsibility to watch out for their employees interests. That is part of the quid pro quo of your employment. Where they are negligent in doing so the employee is within their right to complain.

What about " At Will employment"?  I lot of folks are "At Will" in the country, and if they are they have no responsibility to watch our for their interests.

Quote
Many people are surprised to learn, whether from an employment contract or employee handbook, that they are an "at-will employee." This means that your employer can terminate you at any time, for any cause -- with or without notice. An employer has every right to walk up to an at-will employee and say, "I don't like that your favorite color is purple. You're fired." There are very few, if any, remedies for you, unless your employer did something to violate your employee rights or broke labor laws..

http://employment.findlaw.com/hiring-process/at-will-employee-faq-s.html

Now the NFL has a union which offers some protections. 

Quote
The whole point was to show lack of respect toward the nation that mistreats its citizens. If my understanding is correct, that should clear up any confusion about intent or why that moment was chosen.

Intentional disrespect to raise awareness. Well, we've talked more about the protest act itself  than the point it was intended to raise awareness of.  So the whole thing has been a gross failure thus far on points

I don't think it is working for them.   Though I agree with their intent that no citizen should be disrespected. 

Quote
Americans Hate Kneeling For The Anthem. The polls show that Americans donít like players kneeling for the anthem. According to the Reuters/Ipsos poll, 69% of Americans say they stand in silence while the national anthem is played. And just 40% of Americans agree with former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernickís stance on the issue, compared with 51% who disagree.

Quote
Americans Are In Favor Of Requiring Players To Stand. According to the Reuters/Ipsos poll, 58% of Americans believe that players should be required by the NFL to stand for the anthem, to 33% opposing. That same poll shows that 43% of Americans oppose how the NFL is handling the issue.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21624/polls-what-do-americans-think-nfl-players-kneeling-ben-shapiro#

Now most do not agree that the players should be fired.  But I hope that we stand for anthem as Celtics.

Thanks for the detailed reply, very informative! Especially the bit about at will employment. It is interesting to note the differences between the US and the UK in that regard. We have something called zero hour contracts which is sort of similar but much lesser used. Employment law seems to be far stricter in the UK/Europe than the US, for which I am grateful.

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2017, 08:29:25 AM »

Online Moranis

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It is respectful, shows your supporting the movement and doesn't disrespect the flag.

What is a the movement?  I'd like to hear more of the protesting players articulate this.

Is it BLM? Is it a campaign against police brutality? What reforms should be put in place? Is it just anti-Trump? How does wearing socks depicting police as pigs and shirts celebrating Fidel Castro fit into their protest, if at all?

What are their views on classism vs. racism? Crime in general?

Instead, we get a knee and the majority of players say and do little or nothing of significance.
Roy you can find statements all over the place from players.  You just have to look.  They aren't hard to find. 

For example, how about this video  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/racial-justice-group-vid-explains-anthem-protests-with-help-of-players_us_59ccfc78e4b05063fe0f7bb2
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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2017, 08:49:53 AM »

Online Roy H.

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It is respectful, shows your supporting the movement and doesn't disrespect the flag.

What is a the movement?  I'd like to hear more of the protesting players articulate this.

Is it BLM? Is it a campaign against police brutality? What reforms should be put in place? Is it just anti-Trump? How does wearing socks depicting police as pigs and shirts celebrating Fidel Castro fit into their protest, if at all?

What are their views on classism vs. racism? Crime in general?

Instead, we get a knee and the majority of players say and do little or nothing of significance.
Roy you can find statements all over the place from players.  You just have to look.  They aren't hard to find. 

For example, how about this video  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/racial-justice-group-vid-explains-anthem-protests-with-help-of-players_us_59ccfc78e4b05063fe0f7bb2

The majority of players taking a knee say nothing, as I said.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2017, 08:57:28 AM »

Offline OhioGreen

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The whole point was to show lack of respect toward the nation that mistreats its citizens. If my understanding is correct, that should clear up any confusion about intent or why that moment was chosen.

Intentional disrespect to raise awareness. Well, we've talked more about the protest act itself  than the point it was intended to raise awareness of.  So the whole thing has been a gross failure thus far on points.

Why would you remain in a country that "mistreats" you, when you can simply pack your bags, get on a plane, and go elsewhere, where you'll be treated better?

Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2017, 09:01:09 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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The whole point was to show lack of respect toward the nation that mistreats its citizens. If my understanding is correct, that should clear up any confusion about intent or why that moment was chosen.

Intentional disrespect to raise awareness. Well, we've talked more about the protest act itself  than the point it was intended to raise awareness of.  So the whole thing has been a gross failure thus far on points.



Why would you remain in a country that "mistreats" you, when you can simply pack your bags, get on a plane, and go elsewhere, where you'll be treated better?

Maybe you still love your country but can still manage to see it has faults and hold out hope that things can be changed for the better. 

Also, despite its flaws, the USA is still an amazing country to live in.  Certainly no guarantees that "elsewhere" comes close to what the US provides.    You can love your country yet still have your issues with it.


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Re: Silver: league rule is "players stand during anthem"
« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2017, 09:08:26 AM »

Online Moranis

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It is respectful, shows your supporting the movement and doesn't disrespect the flag.

What is a the movement?  I'd like to hear more of the protesting players articulate this.

Is it BLM? Is it a campaign against police brutality? What reforms should be put in place? Is it just anti-Trump? How does wearing socks depicting police as pigs and shirts celebrating Fidel Castro fit into their protest, if at all?

What are their views on classism vs. racism? Crime in general?

Instead, we get a knee and the majority of players say and do little or nothing of significance.
Roy you can find statements all over the place from players.  You just have to look.  They aren't hard to find. 

For example, how about this video  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/racial-justice-group-vid-explains-anthem-protests-with-help-of-players_us_59ccfc78e4b05063fe0f7bb2

The majority of players taking a knee say nothing, as I said.
That just isn't true.  You are just too lazy to look.  But let's say it is true, why do 10 kneeling teammates all need to speak if 1 of those players does.  If the others don't say anything differently, then it is obvious that 1 player is speaking for all 10. 
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