Author Topic: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC  (Read 3567 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2017, 04:52:28 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3017
  • Tommy Points: 293
Now they need to get rid of Roberson and replace him with a two-way SG.

Then they have a starting 5 that can go toe-to-toe with the Warriors.
2-way wings are expensive so that is a pipe dream.  They have Arines to provide some offense off the bench.

They don't need someone who is a high level player on both ends. Just someone who isn't a liability. Roberson is too much of a liability on offense against top teams in the playoffs to play in lineups with another non-shooter in Steven Adams.

They should try to trade him for someone with more balance.

Solid offense & average defense instead of elite defense and bad offense.
So name names.  Who should they get? 

I'd rather have Roberson's elite defense and then Abrines bringing some offense off the bench.  Roberson and Adams wouldn't necessarily be in they're closing lineup especially against GSW.  They could go with Russ, PG, Melo, Patterson and Grant or Russ, Abrines, PG, Melo and Grant.

They should have traded for Avery. Not shure that they could afford him, though I guess Marcus Morris is a beatable trade chip. That team would be nasty. still will be fun to watch, even though I don't think Melo is a superstar anymore, I doubt anyone believes that
Morris is better than anyone OKC had to give up.  Plus Avery is going to be looking for a big pay day next offseason. 

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2017, 04:54:10 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1867
  • Tommy Points: 118
Thoughts:

1. Presti deserves a raise after offloading both Oladipdo and Kanter contracts and somehow getting PG13 and Melo.

2. It's kind of an odd fit but they should definitely be able to score points.

3. Don't think they have really good depth (like at all).

4. Lakers pick looking a little bit better.

5. Another swing and miss by CLE in trying to get another player in to help Lebron.
Felton, Abrines, Patterson and Grant are solid depth. 

No indication that the Cavs even made an offer for Melo.  He just put them on his trade list.
Solid? I would say that is a stretch and that is being kind. That bench is poor. They need to add a buy out guy/FA to bolster it.

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2017, 05:10:02 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30620
  • Tommy Points: 5125
So...if Melo and PG stay in OKC with Westbrook, does Lebron still want to go to the Western Conference next season?

Naw

I predict Lebron will retire after next season

He showed me last season he is content with what he has done/accomplished

After next season the Cavs are going to trade Love etc for the purpose to rebuild

Lebron either becomes the new president of basketball operations or something left field and joins the Clippers as the new president.

His playing days in the league will soon be over.
Can't disagree with this more. Lebron is going to be around until late in his 30's. He still has about $150+ million to earn and he is still in amazing physical condition.

Don't know where he will play as Cleveland is looking less and less likely to keep him, but Lebron will be around a while.
Where is Lebron going to go where he can be competitive?  Lakers would have no chance in the West unless Lebron and 2 other top stars take a lot less than Max to go there.  In the East, he'd be more competitive staying on the Cavs than any other team he could feasibly go to.
True but I also don't think Cleveland ownership will want him back at another outrageous salary that keeps them in lottery hell. There's just so much money they can lose yearly before they come to the decision that Lebron just isn't worth it fiscally. I just think Cleveland might be at that point right now, otherwise why trade for the Brooklyn pick if not to rebuild without Lebron?
"Keeps them in lottery hell"?  What the heck does that mean?  As long as they have Lebron they'll be a playoff team in the weak East.  They traded Irving because he demanded a traded and our offer was by far the best.  That Nets pick can be used to rebuild  if Lebron leaves but it could also be used in a trade to acquire more talent to put around Lebron if he stays.
They paid $45 million in luxury tax last year for a team that got wiped out in the Finals. They will have to pay the repeater tax this year on $140 million team salary and still won't be any closer to a title. If they resign Lebron and IT they will be approaching $170 million team salary again on a repeater tax.

They will be losing huge gobs of money to lose in the Finals if they are lucky enough to get there. There comes a time when they will have to say, Lebron's $35+ million just isn't worth it.

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2017, 05:32:02 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3017
  • Tommy Points: 293
So...if Melo and PG stay in OKC with Westbrook, does Lebron still want to go to the Western Conference next season?

Naw

I predict Lebron will retire after next season

He showed me last season he is content with what he has done/accomplished

After next season the Cavs are going to trade Love etc for the purpose to rebuild

Lebron either becomes the new president of basketball operations or something left field and joins the Clippers as the new president.

His playing days in the league will soon be over.
Can't disagree with this more. Lebron is going to be around until late in his 30's. He still has about $150+ million to earn and he is still in amazing physical condition.

Don't know where he will play as Cleveland is looking less and less likely to keep him, but Lebron will be around a while.
Where is Lebron going to go where he can be competitive?  Lakers would have no chance in the West unless Lebron and 2 other top stars take a lot less than Max to go there.  In the East, he'd be more competitive staying on the Cavs than any other team he could feasibly go to.
True but I also don't think Cleveland ownership will want him back at another outrageous salary that keeps them in lottery hell. There's just so much money they can lose yearly before they come to the decision that Lebron just isn't worth it fiscally. I just think Cleveland might be at that point right now, otherwise why trade for the Brooklyn pick if not to rebuild without Lebron?
"Keeps them in lottery hell"?  What the heck does that mean?  As long as they have Lebron they'll be a playoff team in the weak East.  They traded Irving because he demanded a traded and our offer was by far the best.  That Nets pick can be used to rebuild  if Lebron leaves but it could also be used in a trade to acquire more talent to put around Lebron if he stays.
They paid $45 million in luxury tax last year for a team that got wiped out in the Finals. They will have to pay the repeater tax this year on $140 million team salary and still won't be any closer to a title. If they resign Lebron and IT they will be approaching $170 million team salary again on a repeater tax.

They will be losing huge gobs of money to lose in the Finals if they are lucky enough to get there. There comes a time when they will have to say, Lebron's $35+ million just isn't worth it.
It is not "luxury tax hell" if you make the finals.  I don't know how much the Cavs make but GSW earns 10M for each playoff home game.  That covers a lot of luxury tax.  The Cavs aren't losing gobs of money.  They only showed up as losing money after revenue sharing and they didn't show up as losing money using the operating income methodology.  Lebron brings them much more money than his salary costs them.  If he leaves, they will truly be losing money and need revenue sharing to offset their losses. 

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2017, 05:37:17 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2828
  • Tommy Points: 177
The idea that the Cavs are "losing gobs of money" paying for a roster featuring LeBron seem to reveal a rather curious and odd understanding of the business side of NBA. You really think Cleveland is losing money on a guy who recently signed a billion-dollar show deal? You do understand what played into him getting that billion-dollar shoe deal in the first place, right? Somehow Nike thinks LeBron is worth a billion-dollar investment, yet the Cavs are in the red with him? Sure...

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2017, 05:49:33 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1446
  • Tommy Points: 92
OKC getting aggressive. Awesome moves. This will be very fun to watch (for 1 season).

Mellow may be in an island of losing again after this season, as I doubt he opts out.

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2017, 06:13:42 PM »

Offline mef730

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2585
  • Tommy Points: 428
Wooowwww. I think they're the second best team in the West if they gel together well, and I could see them giving GS all they can handle.

That Irving trade is just getting better and better for us, huh? That's now like 7 legit teams that will challenge Brooklyn for worst in the NBA - Brooklyn, Chicago, Indy, Atlanta, New York, LAL, Sacramento, and Phoenix.

By extension I guess it makes the Fultz deal worse.

More bad teams in the East mean they trade wins and losses with each other.  More quality in the West means every win is that much harder for the Lakers.  The Lakers could be a better team this year but wind up with the same record.

My only regret with the Fultz trade is I think Ainge should have received the pick if it were 2-6 instead of 2-5.

This. Having six to eight bad teams means that there is a much higher chance of wins and losses among those teams being spread evenly.

The only argument that one could make against it, and it certainly has merit, is that the Knicks with Melo have a much better chance of beating LA in the two games that they play than without him. But it probably also means another win or two for all of the other east bottom feeders.

Mike
Tickets for the 2017-18 season for sale at face value! Thread here: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93612.0

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2017, 06:27:24 PM »

Online GreenWarrior

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2639
  • Tommy Points: 179
this is a nothing move imo. I've long felt Anthony is overrated... because he is. this is just a name being moved, a name who's living off his college career. there is no substance to Anthony's game, for all the points he scores his team is worse off.

and he's a coach killer.

I'm not a huge fan of Carmelo Anthony, but this is ridiculous.  He was a great player for the Nuggets, and there's a reason he made the playoffs each of the first 10 years of his career. It's one thing to say he's a nothing player now, but he's not just "living off his college career"

wow I give you and the other poster that quoted me credit. and I actually agree with both of you... in a sense.

most people don't seem to acknowledge his time with the nuggets, because the talk about Melo is usually "he doesn't win" and the reply is "that's because he hasn't played with anyone". I believe his success in Denver had more to do with the team around him.

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2017, 06:31:25 PM »

Offline bdm860

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3908
  • Tommy Points: 1747
So...if Melo and PG stay in OKC with Westbrook, does Lebron still want to go to the Western Conference next season?

Naw

I predict Lebron will retire after next season

He showed me last season he is content with what he has done/accomplished

After next season the Cavs are going to trade Love etc for the purpose to rebuild

Lebron either becomes the new president of basketball operations or something left field and joins the Clippers as the new president.

His playing days in the league will soon be over.
Can't disagree with this more. Lebron is going to be around until late in his 30's. He still has about $150+ million to earn and he is still in amazing physical condition.

Don't know where he will play as Cleveland is looking less and less likely to keep him, but Lebron will be around a while.
Where is Lebron going to go where he can be competitive?  Lakers would have no chance in the West unless Lebron and 2 other top stars take a lot less than Max to go there.  In the East, he'd be more competitive staying on the Cavs than any other team he could feasibly go to.
True but I also don't think Cleveland ownership will want him back at another outrageous salary that keeps them in lottery hell. There's just so much money they can lose yearly before they come to the decision that Lebron just isn't worth it fiscally. I just think Cleveland might be at that point right now, otherwise why trade for the Brooklyn pick if not to rebuild without Lebron?
"Keeps them in lottery hell"?  What the heck does that mean?  As long as they have Lebron they'll be a playoff team in the weak East.  They traded Irving because he demanded a traded and our offer was by far the best.  That Nets pick can be used to rebuild  if Lebron leaves but it could also be used in a trade to acquire more talent to put around Lebron if he stays.
They paid $45 million in luxury tax last year for a team that got wiped out in the Finals. They will have to pay the repeater tax this year on $140 million team salary and still won't be any closer to a title. If they resign Lebron and IT they will be approaching $170 million team salary again on a repeater tax.

They will be losing huge gobs of money to lose in the Finals if they are lucky enough to get there. There comes a time when they will have to say, Lebron's $35+ million just isn't worth it.
It is not "luxury tax hell" if you make the finals.  I don't know how much the Cavs make but GSW earns 10M for each playoff home game.  That covers a lot of luxury tax.  The Cavs aren't losing gobs of money.  They only showed up as losing money after revenue sharing and they didn't show up as losing money using the operating income methodology.  Lebron brings them much more money than his salary costs them.  If he leaves, they will truly be losing money and need revenue sharing to offset their losses.

I'm pretty sure that $10m number for playoff home games comes from here.  That's for Finals games only, not every playoff game, Finals tickets are much more expensive than the earlier 3 rounds.  Plus GS has a much higher ticket price than Cleveland, it costs about 25% more just to get in the door in GS than Cleveland at least according to this article

My SWAG for Cleveland might be something like $9m per Finals game, $7m per ECF game, $5m per 2nd round game, $3m per 1st round game.  That's only $48m extra in revenue, that barely covers their $45m luxury tax bill (though actually I think it was closer to $25m last year, $45m would've been this year before the Kyrie/IT trade). Still losing money is losing money, doesn't matter if it was due to revenue sharing/luxury tax or not, as that's a cost teams have to bear.

I noticed you mentioned Cleveland didn't lose money if you look at operating income, can you explain why you'd prefer to look at operating income before revenue sharing, rather than net income after revenue sharing?  Which number do you think the owners are looking at?  That negative net income number has to come out of their pockets, whether or not they had positive operating income. 

All this to say, I don't think going to the Finals is the golden goose you think it is.  Cavs went to the Finals and lost money.  I can see a point approaching (if we're not already there) where the Cavs lose more money with LeBron than if they're a 20 win team without him.

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2017, 06:51:18 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

  • NCE
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24876
  • Tommy Points: 1860
this is a nothing move imo. I've long felt Anthony is overrated... because he is. this is just a name being moved, a name who's living off his college career. there is no substance to Anthony's game, for all the points he scores his team is worse off.

and he's a coach killer.

Bingo .

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2017, 06:52:13 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7248
  • Tommy Points: 744
this is a nothing move imo. I've long felt Anthony is overrated... because he is. this is just a name being moved, a name who's living off his college career. there is no substance to Anthony's game, for all the points he scores his team is worse off.

and he's a coach killer.

"Living off his college career"

This has to be a joke.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2017, 07:03:34 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3348
  • Tommy Points: 216
The Cavs salary problem isn't LBJ at $35M, it's all the role player vets he makes the team overpay to fill out the roster.  TT, Korver, JR ... would be like salary cap cement shoes. That's where they overpay, and the deal is Lebron doesn't trust them to get the next Delladova after someone else over pays the guy who performed next to him the year before. So he holds the franchise hostage with short deals. That's why they pay all that money in salary, yet would crash without Lebron. Talent/salary ratio is off.

Interesting take on Kevin Love though, it seems nobody thinks very much of him.

Interesting that the Cavs weren't on Melo's list from the beginning. Or PG.

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2017, 07:38:55 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

  • NCE
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24876
  • Tommy Points: 1860
Dumping Melo off  is a win of NY in itself. added headache for OKC .....bet their coach is thrilled.

Good move for NY.

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2017, 07:44:17 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2445
  • Tommy Points: 422
  • Salmon and Mashed Potatoes
Wooowwww. I think they're the second best team in the West if they gel together well, and I could see them giving GS all they can handle.

That Irving trade is just getting better and better for us, huh? That's now like 7 legit teams that will challenge Brooklyn for worst in the NBA - Brooklyn, Chicago, Indy, Atlanta, New York, LAL, Sacramento, and Phoenix.

By extension I guess it makes the Fultz deal worse.
not if we got our guy
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: Woj Bomb: Melo to OKC
« Reply #89 on: September 23, 2017, 07:47:44 PM »

Offline Androslav

  • Kyrie Irving
  • Posts: 817
  • Tommy Points: 159
This will either be really fun to watch or become an absolute dumpster fire.
Yes, and whenever I have this POV it turns out to be the latter more than 80% of time. Truth is RW got some killer shooters tonspace for him.
"The joy of the balling under the rim."