Author Topic: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE  (Read 1609 times)

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Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2017, 07:10:15 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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He was apparently gang affiliated and a psychopath before joining the Pats. I don't see them having any legal or moral culpability, other than providing a scum bag of a human being the resources and celebrity to further his criminal activities.


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Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 07:39:00 PM »

Offline wayupnorth

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personally, i hope they simply ban football given it is a blood sport.

i wonder if it would carry the same appeal, or close to it, if players had lots more padding and could not hit each other with such force.

Lol wow.

This is sad.

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2017, 07:49:21 PM »

Offline greece666

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personally, i hope they simply ban football given it is a blood sport.

i wonder if it would carry the same appeal, or close to it, if players had lots more padding and could not hit each other with such force.

Consenting adults should be free to do whatever they wish with their own bodies. Any attempt to argue otherwise is unethical.

What if the consequences of their actions involve other people?

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2017, 07:50:36 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I'd love to hear CTE discussed more broadly than just in terms of NFL players.  An article I read sited that 110 out of 111 NFL players autopsied have shown evidence of CTE.  I'd love to understand how different that is from a pool of hockey players, soccer players, basketball players, and the general population.

It's important to note that those 111 players were in the study because they suspected they had CTE before they passed. It's a very biased sample, which to their credit the researchers have made very prominent when discussing their results. So it's unlikely 99% of all players have CTE, but it's still probably a shockingly high percentage.

I agree that appropriate control groups are crucial to figuring out how much of this is coming from football. The best we can say at this point is that CTE appears to be extremely rare in brains that are autopsied for other reasons.


personally, i hope they simply ban football given it is a blood sport.

I don't want it banned, though if CTE is found to originate at early ages insurance costs at lower levels could quickly become so onerous that it dies out on its own.

But I can't really watch it anymore either. I can pinpoint the exact moment I turned on football. I was watching some bowl game and the recently retired Hines Ward was a commentator. The other commentator mentioned that Ward had had a great game in that bowl when he played for Georgia, won the MVP or something. Ward laughed and said (paraphrased), "they tell me I played a great game; I got my bell rung early on and don't remember any of it after that." CTE stories were starting to come out by that point but that was just sickening to hear.

Knowing I'd inevitably be watching guys incur permanent brain damage and keep playing...I just had no stomach for it anymore. I go to Super Bowl parties and the like but outside of that I can't watch, especially with the amateurs that'll mostly never see a paycheck for their damage.

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2017, 08:27:12 PM »

Online 2short

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He was apparently gang affiliated and a psychopath before joining the Pats. I don't see them having any legal or moral culpability, other than providing a scum bag of a human being the resources and celebrity to further his criminal activities.
This is something that shouldn't be overlooked.  Prior to being an nfl player he was not a good person by any means.  Did CTE happen in college or before that?  I think he might be a case for CTE not being much of an attribute to him being a **** head.

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2017, 08:46:17 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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He was apparently gang affiliated and a psychopath before joining the Pats. I don't see them having any legal or moral culpability, other than providing a scum bag of a human being the resources and celebrity to further his criminal activities.
This is something that shouldn't be overlooked.  Prior to being an nfl player he was not a good person by any means.  Did CTE happen in college or before that?  I think he might be a case for CTE not being much of an attribute to him being a **** head.

Yup.  You guys nailed it.  Living in Florida for 12-years I've worked with or met numerous people who knew Hernandez while at U.F., some of whom quite well, and they all said he was an awful person who acted like a thug, never did any homework, and got away with a ton.  Time to own up to who he is, CTE or not.

If his family truly does file a lawsuit, then I hope anyone negatively affected him by files a lawsuit against him

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2017, 10:42:50 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I didn't know his brain was being autopsied.  Man, tough situation for every one involved. I'm not a neuropathologist, but it's surprising to see that level of insult in a 20-something brain -  football player or otherwise. 

I'd love to hear CTE discussed more broadly than just in terms of NFL players.  An article I read sited that 110 out of 111 NFL players autopsied have shown evidence of CTE.  I'd love to understand how different that is from a pool of hockey players, soccer players, basketball players, and the general population.

It's important to note that those 111 players were in the study because they suspected they had CTE before they passed. It's a very biased sample, which to their credit the researchers have made very prominent when discussing their results. So it's unlikely 99% of all players have CTE, but it's still probably a shockingly high percentage.

I agree that appropriate control groups are crucial to figuring out how much of this is coming from football. The best we can say at this point is that CTE appears to be extremely rare in brains that are autopsied for other reasons.

Fair points.  SI is reporting that 270/425 brains studied at VA Boston were consistent with CTE.  I hadn't read the recent paper you referenced, but it was in a major journal (JAMA) and I'm glad to hear they were forthright in reporting their findings.

Quote from: fairweatherfan
personally, i hope they simply ban football given it is a blood sport.

I don't want it banned, though if CTE is found to originate at early ages insurance costs at lower levels could quickly become so onerous that it dies out on its own.

Yeah, as you said, there's just so much unknown and longitudinal studies will take time.  I wonder if legal issues from these cases alone could comprise the NFL's status, though, before harder evidence is presented.  And I'm sure research efforts will identify earlier effects, tricky as it may be with developing brains. 

I'm passionate about this issue, and Hernandez's case in general.  Without intending to be inflammatory, I thought it was worthwhile to seriously consider how mental health issues contributed to his actions prior to this story.  With his trauma history and likely (related) personality disorder, I would imagine that increases risk of further brain insult (like CTE). That's something else to think about -- athletes coming from impoverished backgrounds are less likely to have the cognitive, or brain "reserve" that can challenge early pathology.

With what I've read about the researchers mentioned in the article (McKee and Stern), they're going to continue to pursue their mission aggressively, in the lab and courts. I tend to agree that athletes should be given a choice to play, but with major caveats: a) research efforts need to ramp up, b) athletes and families need to be aware of all potential risks involved, and c) far greater protection should be applied in youth sports, where kids often don't have the liberty to choose whether or not they play.   
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 02:30:29 AM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2017, 12:38:09 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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He was apparently gang affiliated and a psychopath before joining the Pats. I don't see them having any legal or moral culpability, other than providing a scum bag of a human being the resources and celebrity to further his criminal activities.
This is something that shouldn't be overlooked.  Prior to being an nfl player he was not a good person by any means.  Did CTE happen in college or before that?  I think he might be a case for CTE not being much of an attribute to him being a **** head.

Yup.  You guys nailed it.  Living in Florida for 12-years I've worked with or met numerous people who knew Hernandez while at U.F., some of whom quite well, and they all said he was an awful person who acted like a thug, never did any homework, and got away with a ton.  Time to own up to who he is, CTE or not.

If his family truly does file a lawsuit, then I hope anyone negatively affected him by files a lawsuit against him

Time for who to own up on who he is?
"You don't know him from a can of paint, but the fact that you can walk up to him and have that same respect, and offer that, it goes a long way for a lot of people" - Kyrie Irving, employing an old African American aphorism to discuss the Kaepernick maelstrom), September 2017.

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2017, 12:56:41 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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I'd love to hear CTE discussed more broadly than just in terms of NFL players.  An article I read sited that 110 out of 111 NFL players autopsied have shown evidence of CTE.  I'd love to understand how different that is from a pool of hockey players, soccer players, basketball players, and the general population.

Also, since Hernandez was so young with such a severe case, are their other factors that contribute directly to CTE beyond just head trauma from football.  Does drug/steroid use impact the rate of deterioration?  Are there other, more basic kinds of trauma (a concussion from a car accident, for example) that are likely to lead to CTE?

CTE is a BIG PR problem for the NFL, but I wish when it was discussed in the media they'd put it in broader context since it is a relatively new disease being discussed by the general public.
oversimplified. cte is not Just merely a pr problem . Its an existential problem for the NFL and sport of football ..

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2017, 01:29:21 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I didn't know his brain was being autopsied.  Man, tough situation for every one involved. I'm not a neuropathologist, but it's surprising to see that level of insult in a 20-something brain -  football player or otherwise.

It's become an almost standard practice among the families of former NFL players to hand over the brain for examination after their death, with some players even requesting that their brains be denoted to science often in suicide notes before committing the act, unfortunately.  It's really sad. 

I'd love to hear CTE discussed more broadly than just in terms of NFL players.  An article I read sited that 110 out of 111 NFL players autopsied have shown evidence of CTE.  I'd love to understand how different that is from a pool of hockey players, soccer players, basketball players, and the general population.

It's important to note that those 111 players were in the study because they suspected they had CTE before they passed. It's a very biased sample, which to their credit the researchers have made very prominent when discussing their results. So it's unlikely 99% of all players have CTE, but it's still probably a shockingly high percentage.

I agree that appropriate control groups are crucial to figuring out how much of this is coming from football. The best we can say at this point is that CTE appears to be extremely rare in brains that are autopsied for other reasons.

Fair points.  SI is reporting that 270/425 brains studied at VA Boston were consistent with CTE.  I hadn't read the recent paper you referenced, but it was in a major journal (JAMA) and I'm glad to hear they were forthright in reporting their findings.

Quote from: fairweatherfan
personally, i hope they simply ban football given it is a blood sport.

I don't want it banned, though if CTE is found to originate at early ages insurance costs at lower levels could quickly become so onerous that it dies out on its own.

Yeah, as you said, there's just so much unknown and longitudinal studies will take time.  I wonder if legal issues from these cases alone could comprise the NFL's status, though, before harder evidence is presented.  And I'm sure research efforts will identify earlier effects, tricky as it may be with developing brains. 

I'm passionate about this issue, and Hernandez's case in general.  Without intending to be inflammatory, I thought it was worthwhile to seriously consider how mental health issues contributed to his actions prior to this story.  With his trauma history and likely (related) personality disorder, I would imagine that increases risk of further brain insult (like CTE). That's something else to think about -- athletes coming from impoverished backgrounds are less likely to have the cognitive, or brain "reserve" that can challenge early pathology.

I just applied for a position at VA Boston.  That'd be a dream job. With what I know about the researchers mentioned in the article (McKee and Stern), they're going to continue to pursue their mission aggressively, in the lab and courts.

I tend to agree that athletes should be given a choice to play, but with major caveats: a) research efforts need to ramp up, b) athletes and families need to be aware of all potential risks involved, and c) far greater protection should be applied in youth sports, where kids often don't have the liberty to choose whether or not they play.

Have you seen Frontline's special The League of Denial, because all of the research has already been done.  All the NFL is doing is the typical - and sickening, if I do say so, myself - delaying tactic of saying that, "this subject obviously requires further and more in depth study," ::) which, like I said, has already been conducted by the guy who discovered it in 2002, Dr. Bennet Omalu. 

Don't be mistaken, the league's own testing has, in fact, known of the problem through its own research, but has, for years now, purposely published inaccurate studies in many prominent medical journals and has gone so far as to call Omalu a quack, even though the passage of time has only vindicated the latter.  It's really appalling, but I guess that there's just too much money involved for people to actually have the balls to do anything about it.  Every time I see Tom Brady, now, all I can think is, "enjoy him now, Gisele, before he turns into a vegetable in the not-too-distant future."
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 01:48:27 AM by Beat LA »

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2017, 03:15:44 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I'd love to hear CTE discussed more broadly than just in terms of NFL players.  An article I read sited that 110 out of 111 NFL players autopsied have shown evidence of CTE.  I'd love to understand how different that is from a pool of hockey players, soccer players, basketball players, and the general population.

While I'm not sure that CTE applies to basketball - I know that it's a contact sport but rarely do guys suffer head injuries, thankfully - I seem to recall hearing that soccer is at least starting to outlaw headers at the junior levels (high school and below, I believe), which, naturally, is during a critical time for brain development, so that's good to see, although I wouldn't quote me on that, but regarding hockey, are you talking about the sport played at the Olympics or boxing on ice, I mean, the NHL? ::) It's surprising to me that we have yet to hear about former players in that league at least showing symptoms similar to CTE given the amount of thuggery routinely put on display.  At least NBA refs try to break things up.  In hockey, they just stand back and let it happen. #OnMyBreak ::)

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2017, 04:10:18 AM »

Offline greece666

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I'd love to hear CTE discussed more broadly than just in terms of NFL players.  An article I read sited that 110 out of 111 NFL players autopsied have shown evidence of CTE.  I'd love to understand how different that is from a pool of hockey players, soccer players, basketball players, and the general population.

While I'm not sure that CTE applies to basketball - I know that it's a contact sport but rarely do guys suffer head injuries, thankfully - I seem to recall hearing that soccer is at least starting to outlaw headers at the junior levels (high school and below, I believe), which, naturally, is during a critical time for brain development, so that's good to see, although I wouldn't quote me on that, but regarding hockey, are you talking about the sport played at the Olympics or boxing on ice, I mean, the NHL? ::) It's surprising to me that we have yet to hear about former players in that league at least showing symptoms similar to CTE given the amount of thuggery routinely put on display.  At least NBA refs try to break things up.  In hockey, they just stand back and let it happen. #OnMyBreak ::)
I googled it and yes, there is a ban for young ages in the US.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/12/29/pfa-urges-fa-consider-ban-heading-children-10/

https://www.theringer.com/2017/4/25/16041684/us-soccer-header-ban-concussions-4805684f63ca

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2017, 06:22:49 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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CTE is a real deal and a bad thing.   But this guy, God rest his soul, was a bad apple long before he played in the NFL.  Soldiers get much worse CTE from the concussions of blasts and there are ove 115,000 of them who have had TBI injuries. 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/do-combat-vets-suffer-the-same-devastating-brain-disease-afflicting-football-players/

Hernandez starting have issues much younger after the death of his father.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1685469-complete-timeline-of-the-rise-fall-of-aaron-hernandez

I know some will read this and state it was the death of his father that set him down the path.   The bottom line is we make choices, Mr. Hernandez made a lot of bad choices and got caught up in that lifestyle.  CTE may have made him worse but it was those choices that set him down that road.

I guess he joined the Bloods in prison.

https://www.courthousenews.com/records-link-aaron-hernandez-bloods-street-gang/


There is a disturbing trend in society today to not hold people accountable for their actions or choices.   This is little more than a rationalization how someone we once admired and liked could commit such a heineous crime or act.   Its happening with CTE, yes it caused mental problems, mood swings and depression but not everyone acts on these feelings.   It is happening with heroin now, too, and it won't lead us to a good place.

Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2017, 09:01:45 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'd love to hear CTE discussed more broadly than just in terms of NFL players.  An article I read sited that 110 out of 111 NFL players autopsied have shown evidence of CTE.  I'd love to understand how different that is from a pool of hockey players, soccer players, basketball players, and the general population.

While I'm not sure that CTE applies to basketball - I know that it's a contact sport but rarely do guys suffer head injuries, thankfully - I seem to recall hearing that soccer is at least starting to outlaw headers at the junior levels (high school and below, I believe), which, naturally, is during a critical time for brain development, so that's good to see, although I wouldn't quote me on that, but regarding hockey, are you talking about the sport played at the Olympics or boxing on ice, I mean, the NHL? ::) It's surprising to me that we have yet to hear about former players in that league at least showing symptoms similar to CTE given the amount of thuggery routinely put on display.  At least NBA refs try to break things up.  In hockey, they just stand back and let it happen. #OnMyBreak ::)
There are two recorded cases in the NHL: Bob Probert and Reggie Flemming. Although they might as well have just looked at any career boxer instead...

My problem with hockey is not the fighting (you can get rid of that) -- it is that the head could become a target, deliberately or not, on routine plays. Moreover, players likely get subconcussive brain trauma every time they get checked into the boards even on clean plays.

Same thing with soccer and heading the ball. That's been documented a bit better than hockey:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/14/health/brain-damage-dementia-cte-soccer-football-study/index.html
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Re: Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe CTE
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2017, 09:53:25 AM »

Offline gift

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personally, i hope they simply ban football given it is a blood sport.

i wonder if it would carry the same appeal, or close to it, if players had lots more padding and could not hit each other with such force.

Consenting adults should be free to do whatever they wish with their own bodies. Any attempt to argue otherwise is unethical.

But WHAT IF in the future they are able to determine such a strong link between football and CTE (and possible other sports and CTE) that they can loosely describe football as causal factor, AND ALSO link CTE so strongly to violent crimes like domestic abuse, homicide, and suicide, that they can loosely describe CTE as a causal factor in those crimes? Do people then have a right to engage in activities that reliably and predictably result in crimes?

Don't know if this will happen. But if it did, to ignore and allow it could certainly be argued to be unethical as well.