Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure

[Celtics4ever]

The last two guys who used the Brinks truck and got injured were traded.   Rondo and IT.   Ainge must get skittish with those comments.  I agree that it forced Ainge to act.

[Roy H.]

My guess is that it was almost exclusively the injury.

It's just plain bad decision-making if IT's public promotion of himself played a part in the decision to trade him. Do we punish guys for seeking what they're worth?

[Eddie20]

My guess is that it was almost exclusively the injury.

It's just plain bad decision-making if IT's public promotion of himself played a part in the decision to trade him. Do we punish guys for seeking what they're worth?

You mean what they THINK they're worth. Because I strongly doubt many, if any, GM's were willing to offer a healthy Thomas a 4 year deal at max money. Age is the biggest factor here and paying Thomas that type of money for 95% of a contract that will be played on the wrong side of 30 is a really bad idea.

[Androslav]

Kyries availability was a force majeure.

Brinks truck was the issue. Players like IT (ones that feel underpaid) prioritize earning, not that surprising at all. DA would sign him, but to be the 6th man of the next dynasty we are building, not the franchise guy. (Let's not fool ourselves, he wouldn't lead us to the promised land as the no. 1 option.)

Isaiah's height, defense, and longevity/performance question due to the hip injury were the other forces that made the deal work.

[Roy H.]

My guess is that it was almost exclusively the injury.

It's just plain bad decision-making if IT's public promotion of himself played a part in the decision to trade him. Do we punish guys for seeking what they're worth?

You mean what they THINK they're worth. Because I strongly doubt many, if any, GM's were willing to offer a healthy Thomas a 4 year deal at max money. Age is the biggest factor here and paying Thomas that type of money for 95% of a contract that will be played on the wrong side of 30 is a really bad idea.

Then opposing GMs are idiotic.

Healthy Top-5 MVP candidates and 2nd Team All-NBA players deserve the max. I don't care if a guy is 4'11"; if he puts up scoring and efficiency numbers like IT, he should be making max money. That's saying nothing of the leadership, the toughness, the clutchness, leading an elite passing offense, etc.

[Androslav]

My guess is that it was almost exclusively the injury.

It's just plain bad decision-making if IT's public promotion of himself played a part in the decision to trade him. Do we punish guys for seeking what they're worth?

The time when your boss sends you to a firm that has a much better chance to pay you the longterm money you seek (IT's priority), and to a team with (nominally) better chances for winning the championship (ultimate professional goal) this year, it doesn't qualify as punishment to me.

Not a tear shed, for the millionaire's financial "problems", on my part.  BTW the millionaire, who signed his previous contract at his full health, sanity and didn't have a gun pointed to his head during the signing ceremony. He deserves NONE of my sympathies in that regard, even though I am deceiving myself to be an empathic person in real life.

He was a good, a great Celtic, now I want to see the new guys that are actually Celtics.

Smart can also choose, ∼44/4y and be winning here for 10 years or getting bigger money somewhere in wastelands of the league.

[Granath]

My guess is that it was almost exclusively the injury.

It's just plain bad decision-making if IT's public promotion of himself played a part in the decision to trade him. Do we punish guys for seeking what they're worth?

You mean what they THINK they're worth. Because I strongly doubt many, if any, GM's were willing to offer a healthy Thomas a 4 year deal at max money. Age is the biggest factor here and paying Thomas that type of money for 95% of a contract that will be played on the wrong side of 30 is a really bad idea.

Oh, someone would have offered IT max money. No doubt. Guys who score 29ppg and are faces of franchises don't grow on trees. I believe he wold have gotten quite a few max offers if he made it through most of next season at the same production rate.

But I also agree with your point. A contract to IT for max money would be very risky. Even if healthy, his size and pinball-style of play can't hold up for very long in this league. If it wasn't his hip now, it would be his knee next month. Or his back next year. Worse, because of his size his margin for error is so very slight - as soon as he loses a step he's Eddie House because he simply won't be able to get his shot off in the lane anymore. That's why I understand why Danny got Irving even if I'm as nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs about it. The deal for Irving is risky given the huge amount we gave up to get him but keeping IT was also very risky. Danny chose Door #1.

[billysan]

My guess is that it was almost exclusively the injury.

It's just plain bad decision-making if IT's public promotion of himself played a part in the decision to trade him. Do we punish guys for seeking what they're worth?

You mean what they THINK they're worth. Because I strongly doubt many, if any, GM's were willing to offer a healthy Thomas a 4 year deal at max money. Age is the biggest factor here and paying Thomas that type of money for 95% of a contract that will be played on the wrong side of 30 is a really bad idea.

Oh, someone would have offered IT max money. No doubt. Guys who score 29ppg and are faces of franchises don't grow on trees. I believe he wold have gotten quite a few max offers if he made it through most of next season at the same production rate.

But I also agree with your point. A contract to IT for max money would be very risky. Even if healthy, his size and pinball-style of play can't hold up for very long in this league. If it wasn't his hip now, it would be his knee next month. Or his back next year. Worse, because of his size his margin for error is so very slight - as soon as he loses a step he's Eddie House because he simply won't be able to get his shot off in the lane anymore. That's why I understand why Danny got Irving even if I'm as nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs about it. The deal for Irving is risky given the huge amount we gave up to get him but keeping IT was also very risky. Danny chose Door #1.

For me, it's all about sustained performance and good health here. One doesnt out weigh the other, they are cumulative.  IT was in a position of his first year performing as an all star and mvp candidate when he got hurt.  Prior to that he was a nice player who pushed the pace and could score. You could easily argue that he had a career year he was unlikely to produce again do to mitigating factors. The stars suddenly aligned for Danny and he had a chance to off load a guy who would think he deserved  the max on his next contract and acquire a top level talent who was younger, healthy and proven. Simply a business decision.

[Roy H.]

  IT was in a position of his first year performing as an all star and mvp candidate when he got hurt. 

He was an all-star the prior year, too.

He's always been very good. Through their first six seasons IT's stats are almost identical to Kyrie's.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Kyrie+Irving&player_id1_select=Kyrie+Irving&y1=2017&player_id1=irvinky01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id2_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y2=2017&player_id2=thomais02&idx=players

[billysan]

But he wasn't an mvp  candidate.

Do all players that are first or second time all stars deserve  max contracts?

That's not realistic and will not happen.

[Roy H.]

But he wasn't an mvp  candidate.

Do all players that are first or second time all stars deserve  max contracts?

That's not realistic and will not happen.

Well, Hayward just got a max contract despite being a one-time all-star. I'd hazard a guess that most multiple-time all-stars coming off All-NBA seasons who have averaged Kyrie Irving numbers over the course of their careers do indeed earn max contracts, yes.

The injurychanged things, but prior to that IT was a bonafide max-worthy player.

[Moranis]

But he wasn't an mvp  candidate.

Do all players that are first or second time all stars deserve  max contracts?

That's not realistic and will not happen.

Thomas finished 5th in MVP voting. 

[Moranis]

My guess is that it was almost exclusively the injury.

It's just plain bad decision-making if IT's public promotion of himself played a part in the decision to trade him. Do we punish guys for seeking what they're worth?

You mean what they THINK they're worth. Because I strongly doubt many, if any, GM's were willing to offer a healthy Thomas a 4 year deal at max money. Age is the biggest factor here and paying Thomas that type of money for 95% of a contract that will be played on the wrong side of 30 is a really bad idea.

Then opposing GMs are idiotic.

Healthy Top-5 MVP candidates and 2nd Team All-NBA players deserve the max. I don't care if a guy is 4'11"; if he puts up scoring and efficiency numbers like IT, he should be making max money. That's saying nothing of the leadership, the toughness, the clutchness, leading an elite passing offense, etc.

The thing is, which team was going to offer him that contract?  Not that many teams will have cap space next summer, some that do have PG's, and others are rebuilding and not a realistic location for Thomas.  There were at most 3 teams that would have interest in Thomas outside of Boston and there realistically could have been 0.  Thomas was (and still is) very unlikely to get a max contract next summer from anyone other than the team he was playing on, so why would that team offer him that. 

[Rakulp]

Isaiah and his agent are to blame because they signed a deal in 2014 for 4 years when IT was 25.

The deal created an obvious awkward position for the next contract coming up at age 29, especially given that IT had never earned serious money until that point. Regardless of where he was at his career, this was going to cause problems. All players should put themselves in position where they can sign at age 26 or 27. Getting off that sweet spot is a problem, particularly for a guy that small.

Even Ainge has some blame here, because he put himself and IT in this spot too. Perhaps he was just so thrilled to lock a quality player into a cost controlled deal that he didn't worry about the end game, but it just didn't work.

 Can't see how Ainge deserves blame here. He bought low on IT, Stevens turned him into a top 3 scorer in the league. He got injured and Danny flipped him and other assets for a top 10 player in the league that's 25. Well done.

1. Stevens didn’t turn IT into a top 3 scorer, IT turned IT into a top 3 scorer. Stevens put him in a position where he could succeed, and he did. IT gets the credit for elevating his game.

2. Kyrie isn’t a top 10 player, so don’t label him as one. Hopefully he’ll get there one day, but as of now, you can say Ainge flipped IT and other assets for a top 20 player. I think most can agree Kyrie is top 20, except for the folks down at ESPN 

If you don't believe that Coach Stevens had a hand in helping IT have the greatest year of his career, then I don't believe you are giving him the credit he deserves.

Stevens built the offense around IT's abilities...where most players are pigeon holed into what their coach wants to do.  That was a decision that a GOOD coach makes with the talent that he has on his team.

Coach gets the best out of his team, while helping each individual use their talents to reach that best level.  C'mon man, throw Stevens a bone here!

Rak

[nickagneta]

My guess is that it was almost exclusively the injury.

It's just plain bad decision-making if IT's public promotion of himself played a part in the decision to trade him. Do we punish guys for seeking what they're worth?

You mean what they THINK they're worth. Because I strongly doubt many, if any, GM's were willing to offer a healthy Thomas a 4 year deal at max money. Age is the biggest factor here and paying Thomas that type of money for 95% of a contract that will be played on the wrong side of 30 is a really bad idea.

If healthy I am convinced IT would have gotten a 4 year max. Now if Ainge didn't want to give him that money and traded a healthy IT in the Kyrie trade, I doubt we would have traded the Brooklyn pick.