Author Topic: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure  (Read 9118 times)

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Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 12:38:48 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Isaiah and his agent are to blame because they signed a deal in 2014 for 4 years when IT was 25.

The deal created an obvious awkward position for the next contract coming up at age 29, especially given that IT had never earned serious money until that point. Regardless of where he was at his career, this was going to cause problems. All players should put themselves in position where they can sign at age 26 or 27. Getting off that sweet spot is a problem, particularly for a guy that small.

Even Ainge has some blame here, because he put himself and IT in this spot too. Perhaps he was just so thrilled to lock a quality player into a cost controlled deal that he didn't worry about the end game, but it just didn't work.



 Can't see how Ainge deserves blame here. He bought low on IT, Stevens turned him into a top 3 scorer in the league. He got injured and Danny flipped him and other assets for a top 10 player in the league that's 25. Well done.

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 01:43:42 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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 The trainer's were fired because they mismanaged ITs hip.



^ This is what it think too. Long time trainer's seldom suddenly get fired or no apparent reason. IT's hip was the elephant in the room for the Celtic organization.

I don't ever think Danny was gonna pay IT max money off of one great season, knowing full well he was a one trick pony. But by IT continually mentioning it in the press, I'm sure it didn't help.


Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2017, 03:05:40 PM »

Offline td450

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Isaiah and his agent are to blame because they signed a deal in 2014 for 4 years when IT was 25.

The deal created an obvious awkward position for the next contract coming up at age 29, especially given that IT had never earned serious money until that point. Regardless of where he was at his career, this was going to cause problems. All players should put themselves in position where they can sign at age 26 or 27. Getting off that sweet spot is a problem, particularly for a guy that small.

Even Ainge has some blame here, because he put himself and IT in this spot too. Perhaps he was just so thrilled to lock a quality player into a cost controlled deal that he didn't worry about the end game, but it just didn't work.



 Can't see how Ainge deserves blame here. He bought low on IT, Stevens turned him into a top 3 scorer in the league. He got injured and Danny flipped him and other assets for a top 10 player in the league that's 25. Well done.
What's not to understand? Ainge structured a contract deal that resulted in IT coming up as a free agent at 29. That was not great situation for the team.

It still worked out, and we don't know if a shorter 1st deal would have worked out as well. But he did have a hand in shaping what IT's "window" was.
 
--edit - Mistakenly thought Ainge negotiated ITs last contract. He didn't. My bad
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 07:09:01 PM by td450 »

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2017, 03:08:28 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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a force majeure by definition-unforeseeable circumstances that prevent someone from fulfilling a contract
Danny was faced with a moral contract of sorts but that injury and rehab without an assurance that it was healed properly and would hold up without a further operation was too much for the rebuild .Danny showed his faith in Isaiah by not drafting Fultz and then he finds out it is worse than expected and Isaiah would maybe be out till Christmas or need an operation.The Brinks truck, the shoes and using the press to negotiate.So its a force majeure on that moral contract.
The Celtics got lucky with Irving trade demand.
Just imagine worst case Isaiah with diminished skills and the Celts stuck with a max contract.
The fans will forever remember his time with the celts.
Crowder and Isaiah might get a ring or play in finals-it could have been much worse
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 03:15:52 PM by rollie mass »

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2017, 04:33:54 PM »

Offline More Banners

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a force majeure by definition-unforeseeable circumstances that prevent someone from fulfilling a contract
Danny was faced with a moral contract of sorts but that injury and rehab without an assurance that it was healed properly and would hold up without a further operation was too much for the rebuild .Danny showed his faith in Isaiah by not drafting Fultz and then he finds out it is worse than expected and Isaiah would maybe be out till Christmas or need an operation.The Brinks truck, the shoes and using the press to negotiate.So its a force majeure on that moral contract.
The Celtics got lucky with Irving trade demand.
Just imagine worst case Isaiah with diminished skills and the Celts stuck with a max contract.
The fans will forever remember his time with the celts.
Crowder and Isaiah might get a ring or play in finals-it could have been much worse

Good points rollie with a diminished Isaiah the C's are no better than last year. It looks less likely that IT would remain in allstar form for long, if he regained it at all. Irving is a fairly safe bet, and lucky we could offer a generous package for Irving. We got no bargain, but we are much better for having him.

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2017, 05:28:13 PM »

Online BitterJim

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Isaiah and his agent are to blame because they signed a deal in 2014 for 4 years when IT was 25.

The deal created an obvious awkward position for the next contract coming up at age 29, especially given that IT had never earned serious money until that point. Regardless of where he was at his career, this was going to cause problems. All players should put themselves in position where they can sign at age 26 or 27. Getting off that sweet spot is a problem, particularly for a guy that small.

Even Ainge has some blame here, because he put himself and IT in this spot too. Perhaps he was just so thrilled to lock a quality player into a cost controlled deal that he didn't worry about the end game, but it just didn't work.



 Can't see how Ainge deserves blame here. He bought low on IT, Stevens turned him into a top 3 scorer in the league. He got injured and Danny flipped him and other assets for a top 10 player in the league that's 25. Well done.
What's not to understand? Ainge structured a contract deal that resulted in IT coming up as a free agent at 29. That was not great situation for the team.

It still worked out, and we don't know if a shorter 1st deal would have worked out as well. But he did have a hand in shaping what IT's "window" was.

Ni, he didn't. IT signed with the Suns in the summer if 2014. Danny had nothing to do with the contract he got.

The only way Danny could have changed IT'IT'S contract would have been by extending him (which would not have been able to increase IT's salary to an acceptable level), or renogotiating his contract (which would have required using cap space). It's not Danny's fault at all
I'm bitter.

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2017, 07:10:04 PM »

Offline td450

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Isaiah and his agent are to blame because they signed a deal in 2014 for 4 years when IT was 25.

The deal created an obvious awkward position for the next contract coming up at age 29, especially given that IT had never earned serious money until that point. Regardless of where he was at his career, this was going to cause problems. All players should put themselves in position where they can sign at age 26 or 27. Getting off that sweet spot is a problem, particularly for a guy that small.

Even Ainge has some blame here, because he put himself and IT in this spot too. Perhaps he was just so thrilled to lock a quality player into a cost controlled deal that he didn't worry about the end game, but it just didn't work.



 Can't see how Ainge deserves blame here. He bought low on IT, Stevens turned him into a top 3 scorer in the league. He got injured and Danny flipped him and other assets for a top 10 player in the league that's 25. Well done.
What's not to understand? Ainge structured a contract deal that resulted in IT coming up as a free agent at 29. That was not great situation for the team.

It still worked out, and we don't know if a shorter 1st deal would have worked out as well. But he did have a hand in shaping what IT's "window" was.

Ni, he didn't. IT signed with the Suns in the summer if 2014. Danny had nothing to do with the contract he got.

The only way Danny could have changed IT'IT'S contract would have been by extending him (which would not have been able to increase IT's salary to an acceptable level), or renogotiating his contract (which would have required using cap space). It's not Danny's fault at all
You're right, my mistake

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2017, 07:19:48 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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Isaiah and his agent are to blame because they signed a deal in 2014 for 4 years when IT was 25.

The deal created an obvious awkward position for the next contract coming up at age 29, especially given that IT had never earned serious money until that point. Regardless of where he was at his career, this was going to cause problems. All players should put themselves in position where they can sign at age 26 or 27. Getting off that sweet spot is a problem, particularly for a guy that small.

Even Ainge has some blame here, because he put himself and IT in this spot too. Perhaps he was just so thrilled to lock a quality player into a cost controlled deal that he didn't worry about the end game, but it just didn't work.



 Can't see how Ainge deserves blame here. He bought low on IT, Stevens turned him into a top 3 scorer in the league. He got injured and Danny flipped him and other assets for a top 10 player in the league that's 25. Well done.
1. Stevens didn’t turn IT into a top 3 scorer, IT turned IT into a top 3 scorer. Stevens put him in a position where he could succeed, and he did. IT gets the credit for elevating his game.

2. Kyrie isn’t a top 10 player, so don’t label him as one. Hopefully he’ll get there one day, but as of now, you can say Ainge flipped IT and other assets for a top 20 player. I think most can agree Kyrie is top 20, except for the folks down at ESPN  ::)
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Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2017, 07:29:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Isaiah and his agent are to blame because they signed a deal in 2014 for 4 years when IT was 25.

The deal created an obvious awkward position for the next contract coming up at age 29, especially given that IT had never earned serious money until that point. Regardless of where he was at his career, this was going to cause problems. All players should put themselves in position where they can sign at age 26 or 27. Getting off that sweet spot is a problem, particularly for a guy that small.

Even Ainge has some blame here, because he put himself and IT in this spot too. Perhaps he was just so thrilled to lock a quality player into a cost controlled deal that he didn't worry about the end game, but it just didn't work.



 Can't see how Ainge deserves blame here. He bought low on IT, Stevens turned him into a top 3 scorer in the league. He got injured and Danny flipped him and other assets for a top 10 player in the league that's 25. Well done.
Why are so many people giving credit to Stevens for IT's development and season last year? What, its not possible that an almost 20PPG scorer prior to being here couldn't work himself into being the player IT became last year? IT was an efficient scorer before he got here and had a career year. Isn't just possible that was because IT worked his ass off and became that much better by himself?

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2017, 08:52:18 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Isaiah and his agent are to blame because they signed a deal in 2014 for 4 years when IT was 25.

The deal created an obvious awkward position for the next contract coming up at age 29, especially given that IT had never earned serious money until that point. Regardless of where he was at his career, this was going to cause problems. All players should put themselves in position where they can sign at age 26 or 27. Getting off that sweet spot is a problem, particularly for a guy that small.

Even Ainge has some blame here, because he put himself and IT in this spot too. Perhaps he was just so thrilled to lock a quality player into a cost controlled deal that he didn't worry about the end game, but it just didn't work.



 Can't see how Ainge deserves blame here. He bought low on IT, Stevens turned him into a top 3 scorer in the league. He got injured and Danny flipped him and other assets for a top 10 player in the league that's 25. Well done.
Why are so many people giving credit to Stevens for IT's development and season last year? What, its not possible that an almost 20PPG scorer prior to being here couldn't work himself into being the player IT became last year? IT was an efficient scorer before he got here and had a career year. Isn't just possible that was because IT worked his ass off and became that much better by himself?

While I dont agree with others that "Stevens made IT", I also do not agree that he got better by himself alone. There is a little bit of credit to Stevens, and even IT has said so.

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2017, 09:29:11 PM »

Offline MattyIce

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Did Isaiah bring this on himself in his quest for the max as a measure of success?Was the not drafting Fultz what got trainers and physio replaced?Was Ainge forced into a corner with these events and only rescued by Irving trade.Did Isaiah's agent ever address the Cap and managements timeline and fears of Isaiahs skills degrading ?The public promotion of MAX using his fan popularity would become polarising.
If Ainge knew the severity of Isaiahs injury back at time of draft, wouldn't he be forced to take Fultz and keep our Nets pick?
Ainge had no choice but to trade and let somebody else deal with MAX issue while getting a mercurial 4 times all star, that also eased Fultz swap.
No wonder training and medical team got replaced ,a mistake on their part jeopardised the rebuild
.If we had gone half the season with all the new players without a all star point guard and then the free agent market price that ainge was NOT going to do match.
Isaiah should leave that legacy untarnished for it was truly historical-even this ending.
Ainge was forced as GM to make the hardestcall but in the end it was a FORCE MAJEURE

he did

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2017, 10:10:15 PM »

Offline cman88

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Celtics were in a rough spot, but I think they wouldve offered Thomas a 3 year max as a bridge player. Do you let him walk and roll out with Marcus smart as your PG? ainge was in a corner either way.

Then Kyrie became available and ainge pounced because as kept being mentioned numerous times "he fits our timeline better"

I think the medical staff mismanaged IT's injury. word originally was he would be back by training camp, now its after the all-star break. thats a big difference. And how often do you hear of an injury that is prescribed for almost 9months of REST. surgery yes, but not just rest/rehab.

I think to say Stevens had nothing to do with it(or everything to do with it) is incorrect. Obviously the talent is there as a scorer. But Brad created a system built around his strengths that gave him the opportunity to be that player.

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2017, 12:07:15 AM »

Offline moiso

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Isaiah and his agent are to blame because they signed a deal in 2014 for 4 years when IT was 25.

The deal created an obvious awkward position for the next contract coming up at age 29, especially given that IT had never earned serious money until that point. Regardless of where he was at his career, this was going to cause problems. All players should put themselves in position where they can sign at age 26 or 27. Getting off that sweet spot is a problem, particularly for a guy that small.

Even Ainge has some blame here, because he put himself and IT in this spot too. Perhaps he was just so thrilled to lock a quality player into a cost controlled deal that he didn't worry about the end game, but it just didn't work.



 Can't see how Ainge deserves blame here. He bought low on IT, Stevens turned him into a top 3 scorer in the league. He got injured and Danny flipped him and other assets for a top 10 player in the league that's 25. Well done.
Why are so many people giving credit to Stevens for IT's development and season last year? What, its not possible that an almost 20PPG scorer prior to being here couldn't work himself into being the player IT became last year? IT was an efficient scorer before he got here and had a career year. Isn't just possible that was because IT worked his ass off and became that much better by himself?
I think a lot of people are looking at that Phoenix half season as Isaiah being a bench player who averaged 15ppg because of the other talented guards he was playing with.  The season before that he was a young guy who averaged 20 and 6.  He would have kept improving on that if he were in a decent situation even without Stevens.

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2017, 02:37:06 AM »

Offline sirnastee

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I started a thread about this a few months ago that went unnoticed, but I really don't understand how IT is going to get a max contract next year unless it is a team with his bird rights.  Last 2 years, most teams with cap space wasted all or most of their cap space by giving role players a jump in free agent contracts to reflect the elevated cap space.  There are also a lot of big name free agents next year as well.  Even if Danny kept IT, I think he could have waited it out and signed IT to a non-max contract once IT realizes that there are no other max offers in the market.

Re: Brinks truck and Ainge backed in corner and a forced majeure
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2017, 06:49:55 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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Isaiah and his agent are to blame because they signed a deal in 2014 for 4 years when IT was 25.

The deal created an obvious awkward position for the next contract coming up at age 29, especially given that IT had never earned serious money until that point. Regardless of where he was at his career, this was going to cause problems. All players should put themselves in position where they can sign at age 26 or 27. Getting off that sweet spot is a problem, particularly for a guy that small.

Even Ainge has some blame here, because he put himself and IT in this spot too. Perhaps he was just so thrilled to lock a quality player into a cost controlled deal that he didn't worry about the end game, but it just didn't work.



 Can't see how Ainge deserves blame here. He bought low on IT, Stevens turned him into a top 3 scorer in the league. He got injured and Danny flipped him and other assets for a top 10 player in the league that's 25. Well done.
Why are so many people giving credit to Stevens for IT's development and season last year? What, its not possible that an almost 20PPG scorer prior to being here couldn't work himself into being the player IT became last year? IT was an efficient scorer before he got here and had a career year. Isn't just possible that was because IT worked his ass off and became that much better by himself?
I think a lot of people are looking at that Phoenix half season as Isaiah being a bench player who averaged 15ppg because of the other talented guards he was playing with.  The season before that he was a young guy who averaged 20 and 6.  He would have kept improving on that if he were in a decent situation even without Stevens.

But then, Isaiah would be just another empty scorer on a bad team. He never impacted team wins until Stevens put him as the primary scoring option for the Celtics.