Author Topic: Smart ranked #65 in the League  (Read 4279 times)

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Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #105 on: September 16, 2017, 10:37:51 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Draymond is incredible. How many other players in the history of the game could've led the best team in the league in assists and won a defensive player of the year?

Draymond Green is certainly a fantastic player, but he might very well be the most overrated player in the leag 8)ue. There is no way Green has any business being ranked in the top 15.

The top 15 players should be guys you can count on to be your team's best player.   No team that has Green as their best player is getting anywhere, he's not that type of player. Green is the ultimate "glue guy", and that's great, but he can't lead a team so he can't be considered a top 15 player.
I disagree completely. I think if Green was ever made the number 1 scoring option on a team he would thrive in that role. Add to that his defensive versatility and prowess, his playmaking ability and his rebounding and I think he could easily be an alpha, #1 guy on 2/3s of the teams in the NBA. The players he is playing with are holding him back from being a 25/9/7 type of player.

Outside of hitting open threes, Green isn't a great offensive player. In fact, he's a downright terrible one.

For instance, the only starter who had a lower FG% on drives was Luke Babbit. Green shot 26.1% while driving to the hoop.

Green ranked in the bottom 5.4% of all players on iso plays, averaging an anemic .44 points per possession.

He ranked in the bottom 9.5% in points per possession on post ups.

He was in the bottom 15.1% as the pick and roll finisher.

Heck, he's even below average (46.8th percentile) on spot ups.

Green is a great defender and passer. If he was a team's #1 scorer, that team would struggle to win 10 games.
I was too lazy to do this, and didn't know it would work out quite this way statistically, but watching Green this is the impression I got.  He isn't a guy that can be an offensive #1 player.

It's pretty remarkable. Is there another starter in the league who falls into the bottom 15% league wide on drives, isolation, pick-and-roll, and Post-ups?

And yet, he's rightly seen as a great player because he plays to his strengths. He's almost Rodman-esque in that way.
He has that nasty that Rodman had as well (Ben Wallace also comes to mind).  Green is obviously more well rounded than Rodman or Wallace was (though he will never be the rebounder or overall defender).  The difference is that no one ever really perceived Rodman/Wallace the way Green is perceived i.e. a top ten player in the league.
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Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #106 on: September 17, 2017, 04:40:33 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Draymond is incredible. How many other players in the history of the game could've led the best team in the league in assists and won a defensive player of the year?

Draymond Green is certainly a fantastic player, but he might very well be the most overrated player in the leag 8)ue. There is no way Green has any business being ranked in the top 15.

The top 15 players should be guys you can count on to be your team's best player.   No team that has Green as their best player is getting anywhere, he's not that type of player. Green is the ultimate "glue guy", and that's great, but he can't lead a team so he can't be considered a top 15 player.
I disagree completely. I think if Green was ever made the number 1 scoring option on a team he would thrive in that role. Add to that his defensive versatility and prowess, his playmaking ability and his rebounding and I think he could easily be an alpha, #1 guy on 2/3s of the teams in the NBA. The players he is playing with are holding him back from being a 25/9/7 type of player.

Outside of hitting open threes, Green isn't a great offensive player. In fact, he's a downright terrible one.

For instance, the only starter who had a lower FG% on drives was Luke Babbit. Green shot 26.1% while driving to the hoop.

Green ranked in the bottom 5.4% of all players on iso plays, averaging an anemic .44 points per possession.

He ranked in the bottom 9.5% in points per possession on post ups.

He was in the bottom 15.1% as the pick and roll finisher.

Heck, he's even below average (46.8th percentile) on spot ups.

Green is a great defender and passer. If he was a team's #1 scorer, that team would struggle to win 10 games.
I was too lazy to do this, and didn't know it would work out quite this way statistically, but watching Green this is the impression I got.  He isn't a guy that can be an offensive #1 player.

It's pretty remarkable. Is there another starter in the league who falls into the bottom 15% league wide on drives, isolation, pick-and-roll, and Post-ups?

And yet, he's rightly seen as a great player because he plays to his strengths. He's almost Rodman-esque in that way.
He has that nasty that Rodman had as well (Ben Wallace also comes to mind).  Green is obviously more well rounded than Rodman or Wallace was (though he will never be the rebounder or overall defender).  The difference is that no one ever really perceived Rodman/Wallace the way Green is perceived i.e. a top ten player in the league.

I wouldn't put Wallace in the same camp as Green and Rodman in terms of having "that nasty", as Big Ben was never a dirty player like those two clowns.  Honestly, he might never have won a DPOY award - although you could certainly make a case for him, at the very least, imo - but I believe that a watered-down version of Anthony Mason is probably the best comparison for Green, with the only differences being that while Draymond is more athletic and a better shooter, Mason was an excellent ball handler and developed into a solid post player, and I'd also venture to say that Mase was the better passer, as well, and lead the 95-96 Knicks in assists, just edging Derek Harper. 

Come to think of it idk how he never managed to win a single DPOY award given that he could guard so many different kinds of players like Shaq, Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, Jordan, Pippen, and Mark Aguirre, for example.  Ugh.  Why couldn't we have taken him and Starks over Brian Shaw?  Screw that guy, lol.  Mason and Starks would have been great Celtics, imo, plus it would have been fun to see Mason beat the crap out of Rodman, Mahorn, Laimbeer, and Salley, not to mention Aguirre and punks like Chuck Person, lol.  He probably could have done a great job on Magic, as well.  Sigh. 

Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #107 on: September 18, 2017, 07:13:32 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Draymond is incredible. How many other players in the history of the game could've led the best team in the league in assists and won a defensive player of the year?
Could have?
Bill Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Pippen and Jordan come to mind. Kawhi perhaps. In 2 of the 100 perfect worlds Marcus could do it.
I would knock Kawhi off the list. Only once has he averaged more than 2.6 apg and had a career high of just 3.5 this season. Otherwise, that's pretty good company for Green to be in.

EDIT: Also, it's worth noting that none of those guys actually did what Draymond just did.
Well they didn't have the DPOY award until the 82/83 season and the award has most often been given to shot blocking and rebounding big men.  Those players don't tend to be great passers. 

That said, Gary Payton did win DPOY and lead his team in assists.  The Sonics also won 64 games that year, of course that was the year the Bulls won 72.  And of course unlike Green, Payton was actually his team's best player and the player most responsible for those 64 wins (11.5 WS to be exact).  Green this past season was 3rd on the 67 win Warriors with just 8.2 WS.  Durant in just 62 games had WS of 12 and Curry led the way with 12.6. 

Going back to the 60's, Chamberlain led the league in assists one year and if they had the award and not for Russell, Chamberlain would have won multiple DPOY awards.  He also would have led his team in scoring, rebounding, and blocked shots in addition to assists.  Russell was likely never going to have enough assists to pass up guys like Cousy, KC Jones, and Hondo, but he was certainly capable of getting those assist numbers.  I'm sure there are players in the 70's that also could have done it.  Moncrief nearly did in the 80's (though the Bucks being the best team would have been a stretch).  Artest had that sort of talent before the Malice.  Jordan obviously won a DPOY and led his team in assists and was the best player on multiple teams that were the league's best team.  He just never did all 3 in the same season. 

Most of the guys were their teams best player, not a glorified role player like Green, which is why this really is a meaningless debate.
I'm not sure why you think it's meaningless when we can only come up with one other player in the 35 years the DPOY award has existed that has shown this kind of versatility. And the other guys who we talk about being capable of doing it (or having done it across multiple seasons) are all first ballot hall of fame guys.

Green might be a role player but if he's "glorified" it's because he's one of the best role players ever.

Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #108 on: September 18, 2017, 07:36:32 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Draymond is incredible. How many other players in the history of the game could've led the best team in the league in assists and won a defensive player of the year?
Could have?
Bill Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Pippen and Jordan come to mind. Kawhi perhaps. In 2 of the 100 perfect worlds Marcus could do it.
I would knock Kawhi off the list. Only once has he averaged more than 2.6 apg and had a career high of just 3.5 this season. Otherwise, that's pretty good company for Green to be in.

EDIT: Also, it's worth noting that none of those guys actually did what Draymond just did.

Thatís a testament to how great of a situation Draymond is in though. If I had Curry, Thompson, and Durant to pass to Iíd probably drop 7 assists a game. I mean thatís 3 of the best shooters in history. So to answer your question of guys who could have won DPOY and led the best team in the league in assists, would basically be every legit DPOY candidate who had just solid playmaking ability.
There was a video going around twitter a while ago that showed all the plays where Draymond was on the floor without any of those other guys. He was running the show. He was effectively playing pg on offense and protecting the rim on defense. He's not just a product of the greats he plays with, he's a product of his own amazing versatility and work.

Also, your logic doesn't make any sense. Curry has Thompson and Durant, Durant has Curry and Thompson. If it's so easy to rack up assists with these guys on your team why are the Warriors putting the ball in Draymond's hands so much? The answer is because he's the best playmaker on the team.
First off, the ball is not in Draymondís hands that much. His usage is 16%, 8th highest on the team behind Curry, Thompson, Durant and other bench guys. So the Warriors clearly donít think heís the best playmaker, otherwise he would have the ball more.

And yes my logic does make sense. Curry has Klay and KD, but Curry canít get an assist to Curry. Draymond has 3 of the best shooters of all time to pass to. The others have 2.

And also, itís easier to get assists when youíre not looking to score for yourself. Look at the numbers Roy posted above. Draymond is a dreadful scorer. So when he has the ball and he has the choice between trying to score himself, or passing to one of 3 amazing shooters, you already know heís going to be looking to pass.
I hate to say it but I think this is a "You have to actually watch the games" situation. Draymond leads the offense for the Warriors a ton. How else could a guy be top 10 in assists in the league 2 years in a row if he didn't have the ball in his hands?

As for the "it's easy with great shooters" thing, if it's so easy why has Andre Iguodala never come close to Draymond's assist numbers (raw or percentage)? Why was Draymond's assist average 0.4 higher the year before Durant joined the team? Clint Capela and Rudy Gobert played with a lot of good shooters around them, why does Draymond average 7 times their number of assists? It's because Draymond has playmaking skills that are rare.

Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #109 on: September 18, 2017, 08:40:43 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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I don't understand how he's in the same range as Bradley.  I see them as roughly-equivalent defenders - both are good, though both are a bit overrated on this site.  But Bradley is a MUCH better offensive player.  It isn't even a contest.

I'd buy Bradley being around #60.  That makes sense to me.  But I'm honestly surprised Smart is in the top 100.
How much value can really be put into a list that ranks Lonzo Ball at #63 when he hasn't played a professional game yet?  that would mean that in a 30 team league, if each team's roster was cleared out and they all had a chance to repick players, Lonzo would be picked in the 3rd round over hundreds of veteran players.  I can't see that happening by any GM not named Sam Hinkie.

Agreed on all points.

Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #110 on: September 19, 2017, 11:01:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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SB Nation's Top 100

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/18/16175476/nba-player-rankings-top-100-2017-lebron-james

Some names of note discussed in this thread.  Crowder 88.  Bradley 47.  Horford 40.  Isaiah 20.  Irving 19.  Hayward 18.  Draymond 14.  They have both Towns and Butler in the top 10.  Top 5 in order James, Durant, Curry, Leonard, Harden.
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Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #111 on: September 19, 2017, 07:31:27 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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 According to ESPN.

#61 Avery Bradley
#63 Lonzo Ball
#64 Carmelo
#65 Smart
#66 Batum

 Not a perfect list, but hey I'll take our super sub Utility knife as a top 65 player in basketball.

Who's #62?
Eric Gordon

lol wow

A inefficient ball hogging chucker who plays no defence and offers zero use to a team aside from volume scoring (Gordon)

Over a better inefficient ball hogging chucker who plays no defence and offers zero use to a team aside from volume scoring (Melo)

I partially understood ranking Melo so low if the guys placed above him were winning types who played hard, team first ball.  But Gordon is basically Carmelo in a smaller guards body, and he's probably EVEN MORE injury prone - so seeing that ranking just makes it blatantly obvious that whoever made this list has some serious personal bias against Carmelo for whatever reason.

Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #112 on: September 19, 2017, 07:42:51 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Draymond is incredible. How many other players in the history of the game could've led the best team in the league in assists and won a defensive player of the year?
Could have?
Bill Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Pippen and Jordan come to mind. Kawhi perhaps. In 2 of the 100 perfect worlds Marcus could do it.

Lets not forget our very own Kevin Garnett!

In 02-03 he led the Timberwolves in:
- Points (23.0 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.4 RPG)
- Assists (6.0 APG)
- Steals (1.4 SPG)
- Blocks (1.6 BPG)

In 03/04 he did the same, and led the Wolves in:
- Points (24.2 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.9 RPG)
- Assists (5.0 APG)
- Steals (1.5 SPG)
- Blocks (2.2 BPG)

He was a legit DPOTY candidate in both years.

People are always so quick to put Tim Duncan above KG when ranking All-Time PFs, but I really don't think the decision is that clear cut.  It's incredibly rare to see a man who is good enough to lead a Playoff team (Wolves made the playoffs both years) in all 5 major statistical categories.  That is crazy and off the top of my head I can't think of anybody else in the last 20 years who has done that.  I don't even think Lebron has put up enough rebounds / blocks to pull that off. 

Is there anybody?

Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #113 on: September 19, 2017, 08:07:08 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Draymond is incredible. How many other players in the history of the game could've led the best team in the league in assists and won a defensive player of the year?
Could have?
Bill Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Pippen and Jordan come to mind. Kawhi perhaps. In 2 of the 100 perfect worlds Marcus could do it.

Lets not forget our very own Kevin Garnett!

In 02-03 he led the Timberwolves in:
- Points (23.0 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.4 RPG)
- Assists (6.0 APG)
- Steals (1.4 SPG)
- Blocks (1.6 BPG)

In 03/04 he did the same, and led the Wolves in:
- Points (24.2 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.9 RPG)
- Assists (5.0 APG)
- Steals (1.5 SPG)
- Blocks (2.2 BPG)

He was a legit DPOTY candidate in both years.

People are always so quick to put Tim Duncan above KG when ranking All-Time PFs, but I really don't think the decision is that clear cut.  It's incredibly rare to see a man who is good enough to lead a Playoff team (Wolves made the playoffs both years) in all 5 major statistical categories.  That is crazy and off the top of my head I can't think of anybody else in the last 20 years who has done that.  I don't even think Lebron has put up enough rebounds / blocks to pull that off. 

Is there anybody?

Giannis did last year. He was actually the first player in NBA history to be top-20 in every one of the "big 5" categories. I'm not sure if that was per game or season totals, though.

Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #114 on: September 19, 2017, 08:49:08 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Draymond is incredible. How many other players in the history of the game could've led the best team in the league in assists and won a defensive player of the year?
Could have?
Bill Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Pippen and Jordan come to mind. Kawhi perhaps. In 2 of the 100 perfect worlds Marcus could do it.

Lets not forget our very own Kevin Garnett!

In 02-03 he led the Timberwolves in:
- Points (23.0 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.4 RPG)
- Assists (6.0 APG)
- Steals (1.4 SPG)
- Blocks (1.6 BPG)

In 03/04 he did the same, and led the Wolves in:
- Points (24.2 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.9 RPG)
- Assists (5.0 APG)
- Steals (1.5 SPG)
- Blocks (2.2 BPG)

He was a legit DPOTY candidate in both years.

People are always so quick to put Tim Duncan above KG when ranking All-Time PFs, but I really don't think the decision is that clear cut.  It's incredibly rare to see a man who is good enough to lead a Playoff team (Wolves made the playoffs both years) in all 5 major statistical categories.  That is crazy and off the top of my head I can't think of anybody else in the last 20 years who has done that.  I don't even think Lebron has put up enough rebounds / blocks to pull that off. 

Is there anybody?

Giannis did last year. He was actually the first player in NBA history to be top-20 in every one of the "big 5" categories. I'm not sure if that was per game or season totals, though.
My guess is that Wilt Chamberlain did it the 3 years he played for the Sixers. He led them in points, rebounds, assists, FG%, and minutes played.  Blocks and steals weren't recorded then but I am 100% positive he led his team in blocks and he could easily have led the team in steals, too.

Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #115 on: September 19, 2017, 09:32:05 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Draymond is incredible. How many other players in the history of the game could've led the best team in the league in assists and won a defensive player of the year?
Could have?
Bill Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Pippen and Jordan come to mind. Kawhi perhaps. In 2 of the 100 perfect worlds Marcus could do it.

Lets not forget our very own Kevin Garnett!

In 02-03 he led the Timberwolves in:
- Points (23.0 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.4 RPG)
- Assists (6.0 APG)
- Steals (1.4 SPG)
- Blocks (1.6 BPG)

In 03/04 he did the same, and led the Wolves in:
- Points (24.2 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.9 RPG)
- Assists (5.0 APG)
- Steals (1.5 SPG)
- Blocks (2.2 BPG)

He was a legit DPOTY candidate in both years.

People are always so quick to put Tim Duncan above KG when ranking All-Time PFs, but I really don't think the decision is that clear cut.  It's incredibly rare to see a man who is good enough to lead a Playoff team (Wolves made the playoffs both years) in all 5 major statistical categories.  That is crazy and off the top of my head I can't think of anybody else in the last 20 years who has done that.  I don't even think Lebron has put up enough rebounds / blocks to pull that off. 

Is there anybody?

Giannis did last year. He was actually the first player in NBA history to be top-20 in every one of the "big 5" categories. I'm not sure if that was per game or season totals, though.
My guess is that Wilt Chamberlain did it the 3 years he played for the Sixers. He led them in points, rebounds, assists, FG%, and minutes played.  Blocks and steals weren't recorded then but I am 100% positive he led his team in blocks and he could easily have led the team in steals, too.
in 68 Wilt actually led the league in total rebounds and total assists. He was 3rd in total points.
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Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #116 on: September 19, 2017, 10:26:38 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Draymond is incredible. How many other players in the history of the game could've led the best team in the league in assists and won a defensive player of the year?
Could have?
Bill Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Pippen and Jordan come to mind. Kawhi perhaps. In 2 of the 100 perfect worlds Marcus could do it.

Lets not forget our very own Kevin Garnett!

In 02-03 he led the Timberwolves in:
- Points (23.0 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.4 RPG)
- Assists (6.0 APG)
- Steals (1.4 SPG)
- Blocks (1.6 BPG)

In 03/04 he did the same, and led the Wolves in:
- Points (24.2 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.9 RPG)
- Assists (5.0 APG)
- Steals (1.5 SPG)
- Blocks (2.2 BPG)

He was a legit DPOTY candidate in both years.

People are always so quick to put Tim Duncan above KG when ranking All-Time PFs, but I really don't think the decision is that clear cut.  It's incredibly rare to see a man who is good enough to lead a Playoff team (Wolves made the playoffs both years) in all 5 major statistical categories.  That is crazy and off the top of my head I can't think of anybody else in the last 20 years who has done that.  I don't even think Lebron has put up enough rebounds / blocks to pull that off. 

Is there anybody?

Giannis did last year. He was actually the first player in NBA history to be top-20 in every one of the "big 5" categories. I'm not sure if that was per game or season totals, though.

Indeed he did!


Though to be fair, even though Giannis did lead his team in rebounding technically, he wasn't their best rebounder - that would be Greg Monroe.  But Monroe's odd playing arrangements in Milwaukee worked in Gianis' favour so he gets the milestone regardless!  And the fact he did it at such a young age really is unbelievable. 

I do still consider KG's case more impressive though, as he was CLEARLY the best passer, rebounder, scorer and defender on those two Minnesota teams, and he did it two years in a row (maybe more - they are just the only two I've confirmed). 

Still super impressive that Giannis achieved that though, I suspect he and KG must be the only players who have done that in the past 30 years (that would take it back to 1987). 

I've taken a look at all kinda of stat stuffers (Clyde Drexler, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Bird, etc) and from what I can see none of those guys have ever led their team in more than 3 categories.

Funnily enough one of the guys who came the closest was Carmelo Anthony - in 15/16 he  actually led the Knicks in points (21.8 ), rebounds (7.7), assists (4.2) and tied for first in steals (0.9) - but he came well short in blocks, ranking 5th on the team at 0.5 BPG and clearly is not making any all defensive teams lol

Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #117 on: September 19, 2017, 10:50:10 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Draymond is incredible. How many other players in the history of the game could've led the best team in the league in assists and won a defensive player of the year?
Could have?
Bill Russell, Wilt, LeBron, Pippen and Jordan come to mind. Kawhi perhaps. In 2 of the 100 perfect worlds Marcus could do it.

Lets not forget our very own Kevin Garnett!

In 02-03 he led the Timberwolves in:
- Points (23.0 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.4 RPG)
- Assists (6.0 APG)
- Steals (1.4 SPG)
- Blocks (1.6 BPG)

In 03/04 he did the same, and led the Wolves in:
- Points (24.2 PPG)
- Rebounds (13.9 RPG)
- Assists (5.0 APG)
- Steals (1.5 SPG)
- Blocks (2.2 BPG)

He was a legit DPOTY candidate in both years.

People are always so quick to put Tim Duncan above KG when ranking All-Time PFs, but I really don't think the decision is that clear cut.  It's incredibly rare to see a man who is good enough to lead a Playoff team (Wolves made the playoffs both years) in all 5 major statistical categories.  That is crazy and off the top of my head I can't think of anybody else in the last 20 years who has done that.  I don't even think Lebron has put up enough rebounds / blocks to pull that off. 

Is there anybody?

Giannis did last year. He was actually the first player in NBA history to be top-20 in every one of the "big 5" categories. I'm not sure if that was per game or season totals, though.

Indeed he did!


Though to be fair, even though Giannis did lead his team in rebounding technically, he wasn't their best rebounder - that would be Greg Monroe.  But Monroe's odd playing arrangements in Milwaukee worked in Gianis' favour so he gets the milestone regardless!  And the fact he did it at such a young age really is unbelievable. 

I do still consider KG's case more impressive though, as he was CLEARLY the best passer, rebounder, scorer and defender on those two Minnesota teams, and he did it two years in a row (maybe more - they are just the only two I've confirmed). 

Still super impressive that Giannis achieved that though, I suspect he and KG must be the only players who have done that in the past 30 years (that would take it back to 1987). 

I've taken a look at all kinda of stat stuffers (Clyde Drexler, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Bird, etc) and from what I can see none of those guys have ever led their team in more than 3 categories.

Funnily enough one of the guys who came the closest was Carmelo Anthony - in 15/16 he  actually led the Knicks in points (21.8 ), rebounds (7.7), assists (4.2) and tied for first in steals (0.9) - but he came well short in blocks, ranking 5th on the team at 0.5 BPG and clearly is not making any all defensive teams lol
In Wilt's days they didn't record blocks and steals. He most assuredly led his team in blocks and because that era was so inside the paint oriented, its a pretty good guess to say he led them in steals too. And he probably did what KG did 3 years in a row.

Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #118 on: September 19, 2017, 11:16:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Garnett didn't lead the Wolves in assists in back to back years. He only did it in 02-03. In 03-04 Cassell was on the team and usurped KG by over 2 apg.
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Re: Smart ranked #65 in the League
« Reply #119 on: September 19, 2017, 11:22:41 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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 According to ESPN.

#61 Avery Bradley
#63 Lonzo Ball
#64 Carmelo
#65 Smart
#66 Batum

 Not a perfect list, but hey I'll take our super sub Utility knife as a top 65 player in basketball.

Who's #62?
Eric Gordon

lol wow

A inefficient ball hogging chucker who plays no defence and offers zero use to a team aside from volume scoring (Gordon)

Over a better inefficient ball hogging chucker who plays no defence and offers zero use to a team aside from volume scoring (Melo)

I partially understood ranking Melo so low if the guys placed above him were winning types who played hard, team first ball.  But Gordon is basically Carmelo in a smaller guards body, and he's probably EVEN MORE injury prone - so seeing that ranking just makes it blatantly obvious that whoever made this list has some serious personal bias against Carmelo for whatever reason.

Uh, I think you've confused Eric Gordon with Lou Williams.  Yes, Gordon has been injury prone over the course of his career which robbed him of his athleticism that he displayed in college and early on in the NBA, but to say that he's a chucker who plays no defense, offers nothing besides scoring, and is basically the guard version of Carmelo Anthony is just hilariously inaccurate, imo. 

Yes, he's a prolific three point shooter, but he also has an excellent midrange game and can get to the basket, plus, and more importantly, he's an excellent defender at both backcourt spots and even served as a stopper for Team USA when he played in the Olympics, iirc, although I can't remember which year it was off the top of my head.  Trust me, you're really underrating his defense.  It's not like he's Jason Terry, lol :laugh:

On another front, I was really hoping that Bird would bring him back to Indiana last year when the former Pelican was a free agent in some kind of sign-and-trade involving Monta Ellis for Gordon, but that obviously never happened, which is really too bad, because he would have been a great addition to the Pacers, imo.