Author Topic: Why do people think Lakers are a lock to get Lebron?  (Read 4772 times)

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Re: Why do people think Lakers are a lock to get Lebron?
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2017, 10:31:45 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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The only way I see this is if the Lakers can figure out a way to get George, James, and some other star (like Westbrook).  That team would have a realistic shot with 3 stars and James isn't leaving Cleveland to go to a team less likely to even make the Finals.

If James goes the young player route, I maintain the Sixers are far more likely, especially if Embiid can stay relatively healthy this year and Simmons and Fultz look like they might hit their potential.  That would be a nearly identical situation to Cleveland when he went back, except the Sixers have more young pieces and enough cap room to flat out sign him without dumping anyone.  And if the Sixers do dump some players, they could theoretically acquire James and someone else.  Imagine James and Westbrook with Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz, with Saric, Holmes, and Covington on the bench (not to mention they might also have at least one more lottery pick in the next draft).  That team would be set up to win for a decade.


Do they have the cap space for PG3 and Lebron?
The Lakers can pretty easily make room for Lebron and PG13.  The Sixers are a bit trickier, but I believe they can get there by making a few salary dumps and by not extending Embiid now or renegotiating and extending Covington (which is why I don't think either of those happens).  Well they could extend Embiid now if he takes less than 18.3 million that 1st year which is his cap hold.  I just don't see him extending for less than that.  Covington's cap hold is only 1.5 million. 

So with that caveat, the Sixers have 40 million or so on the books for 18/19 which includes Fultz, Korkmaz, and Bayless as the only guarantees with the rest coming from team options on rookie deals for Simmons, Okafor, Saric, Anderson, Holmes, McConnell, and Luawawu-Cabarrot.  So that is 10 players (if they keep all of them).  You then add in Embiid and Covington and that puts the Sixers at right around 60 million with 12 players (so no other cap holds needed).  So that easily yields one max contract, but the 2nd is more problematic.  However, if they can dump Bayless' 8.5 million and they don't pick up guys like Okafor (6.3) and Anderson (2.5), then they would get awfully close to having room for 2 max contracts.  They could then re-sign Embiid and Covington (and as said if Embiid signs for less than his 18.3 million cap hold, they could re-sign him first and save more money off the cap). 

From a 2 max perspective they'd actually be better off transferring the LAL pick to Boston next year, because if they keep it when added to their own pick that hurts their potential cap space, though does add a couple of more roster spots making unloading someone like Okafor easier.  They also would be able to trade some of those players for that 2nd max contract if said player forced his way out.  OKC might be ok taking on Okafor, Anderson, etc. if they were going to lose George anyway.

From what I have read Covington is expected to get extended in November. I would also add that aside from 76er fans and you I haven't really heard anyone talk about the possibility of him signing in Philly.
Because him going to Philly isn't glamorous and won't drive ratings, but it isn't hard to see what the Sixers are doing and why they insisted on only 1 year contracts this summer.  They are keeping open a max contract slot next summer.  And there are national people who have mentioned Philly as a landing spot.  Jason McIntyre from the Big Lead for example.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/07/18/so-maybe-you-just-go-where-you-want-to-play-woj-on-lebrons-dubious-future-in-cleveland/

"I’ve whittled down the options right now to the Lakers and 76ers"



The Sixers are something like the 10th favorite to win the title in Vegas this year.  And that is with Fultz and Simmons yet to play a game and Embiid at only 31 games in 3 years.  If those 3 guys all make it through the season relatively healthy and the former two actually look like they were worthy of being the 1st pick, then the Sixers are probably making the playoffs this year and look a team that could be winning titles for a decade with or without a max level free agent.  That has to be appealing to any max level free agent even if for no other reason I could go there and then they could trade some of those young guys to get me some vets and still have other young players to build around (you know the exact scenario Cleveland was in when James went back there a few years ago). 

The bottom line as I see it, if I am a player entering the twilight of my career and I want to win multiple championships before I retire, I'm going to look at a team with a plethora of young talent and preferably one that could sign me without giving up any of that young talent.  It would help if that team was in the East, though wouldn't rule out a western team.  The team that best fits that description is Philadelphia.  They have by far the most high level young talent in the league.  They are in the Eastern Conference.  They also still have all of their own picks and some prime draft picks from the Kings (or Lakers) two teams that aren't going to be very good.  They could keep some of those players and trade others to acquire a player or players to win now and in the future.  And they have so many assets they could easily acquire a top level talent (like Anthony Davis) and not strip the cupboard. 

Just because Philly isn't sexy and is ignored by the national media, doesn't mean Philly isn't going to be a real option for a top level player.  Maybe it isn't James, but Philly is absolutely going to be aggressive next summer, and if they make the playoffs or show great strides this year, I wouldn't count James out from going there as that is the exact type of team that could get James the title count he needs to go down as the greatest player ever.
If I'm the Sixers, I wouldn't particularly want James.  I'd prefer a more low key, low baggage star like PG.  James and Simmons wouldn't be a good fit either. 

They definitely won't have room for 2 Max free agents.  They'll renegotiate and extend Covington to a front loaded deal in November.  They don't want Covington hitting free agency.  If they can get some allowances for health, I'd expect them to extend Embiid too.
PG would work, but I think he pretty clearly either re-signs in OKC or goes to LAL.  I just don't see him going anywhere else.  James obviously brings a lot of baggage, but he is still the best player in the NBA and for a team like Philly that has been downright terrible for almost all of the last 30 years (they had that small AI run but otherwise awful), James gives them something they really haven't had.  I do think a max level SG would make the most sense for them, but none of those are available next summer (Bradley is probably the best SG on the market), and SF is the position that makes the next most sense (since I think Simmons is best suited at PF).  If they strike out, I wouldn't be surprised to them just bringing Redick back again as I do think he will play well on that team and in that role or they just go the lesser tier player route and sign Bradley (whose defense will cover for Fultz a lot). 

Covington re-signing in November would obviously eliminate any shot at 2 max free agents and if they can get him cheap enough they probably do it, but they seemingly don't see him as a long term starter.  He is the perfect 3 and D type player off the bench and provides a lot of versatility.
Why do you think that they don't see Covington as a long term starter?  He's probably a top 10 SF.  He's not going to be satisfied coming off the bench and they are unlikely to get a better starting SF.  When Covington was shooting dreadfully the 1st couple months last season and their fans were booing him, Brown kept him in the starting lineup because his defense was just too important for them.  He's a great fit with Fultz, Simmons and Embiid.  Renegotiating and extending him to a front loaded deal makes too much sense. 

I mentioned PG as the low key type of star that could fit into what they are building with their youth.  I agree that he mostly likely ends up with OKC or the Lakers.  James, Westbrook, etc would take over their team and potentially disrupt their youth rebuild.  I agree SG is probably what they should be looking at next offseason but they've maintained the flexibility to go in whichever direction that they need to as they see how things play out this season.
Covington is pretty similar to Crowder.  Not a guy you would really want as a long term starter as he just doesn't provide enough offense, though obviously if Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz all hit, they could get away with Covington starting (kind of like Roberson in the OKC hey day).  SG is the much bigger hole, there just aren't any top tier SG's available this summer and certainly no one worth the max and this is more than likely the last year they will have room for a max contract so they really do have to use it on someone.  If they can't get a bigger name, then I think they will go hard after Bradley.
A lot of teams would kill to have Crowder or Covington as their starting SF.  Covington is much better offensively than Roberson.  Crowder and Covington were both top 15 in pts at the SF position and I'd take them over several of the SFs in from of them (e.g. Gallinari, Chandler, Harris, Porter with his Max contract). 

The Sixers don't need a Max guy unless it is the right Max guy.  They are building around at least two of Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.  If I'm the Sixers, I think I'd prefer KCP over Bradley due to health and size.  Fultz, KCP, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a very switchable lineup.  That's going to be especially important with Simmons running their offense.  I wouldn't overpay to get either though and they shouldn't need to given the lack of cap space around the league. 

Re: Why do people think Lakers are a lock to get Lebron?
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2017, 11:26:35 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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The only way I see this is if the Lakers can figure out a way to get George, James, and some other star (like Westbrook).  That team would have a realistic shot with 3 stars and James isn't leaving Cleveland to go to a team less likely to even make the Finals.

If James goes the young player route, I maintain the Sixers are far more likely, especially if Embiid can stay relatively healthy this year and Simmons and Fultz look like they might hit their potential.  That would be a nearly identical situation to Cleveland when he went back, except the Sixers have more young pieces and enough cap room to flat out sign him without dumping anyone.  And if the Sixers do dump some players, they could theoretically acquire James and someone else.  Imagine James and Westbrook with Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz, with Saric, Holmes, and Covington on the bench (not to mention they might also have at least one more lottery pick in the next draft).  That team would be set up to win for a decade.


Do they have the cap space for PG3 and Lebron?
The Lakers can pretty easily make room for Lebron and PG13.  The Sixers are a bit trickier, but I believe they can get there by making a few salary dumps and by not extending Embiid now or renegotiating and extending Covington (which is why I don't think either of those happens).  Well they could extend Embiid now if he takes less than 18.3 million that 1st year which is his cap hold.  I just don't see him extending for less than that.  Covington's cap hold is only 1.5 million. 

So with that caveat, the Sixers have 40 million or so on the books for 18/19 which includes Fultz, Korkmaz, and Bayless as the only guarantees with the rest coming from team options on rookie deals for Simmons, Okafor, Saric, Anderson, Holmes, McConnell, and Luawawu-Cabarrot.  So that is 10 players (if they keep all of them).  You then add in Embiid and Covington and that puts the Sixers at right around 60 million with 12 players (so no other cap holds needed).  So that easily yields one max contract, but the 2nd is more problematic.  However, if they can dump Bayless' 8.5 million and they don't pick up guys like Okafor (6.3) and Anderson (2.5), then they would get awfully close to having room for 2 max contracts.  They could then re-sign Embiid and Covington (and as said if Embiid signs for less than his 18.3 million cap hold, they could re-sign him first and save more money off the cap). 

From a 2 max perspective they'd actually be better off transferring the LAL pick to Boston next year, because if they keep it when added to their own pick that hurts their potential cap space, though does add a couple of more roster spots making unloading someone like Okafor easier.  They also would be able to trade some of those players for that 2nd max contract if said player forced his way out.  OKC might be ok taking on Okafor, Anderson, etc. if they were going to lose George anyway.

From what I have read Covington is expected to get extended in November. I would also add that aside from 76er fans and you I haven't really heard anyone talk about the possibility of him signing in Philly.
Because him going to Philly isn't glamorous and won't drive ratings, but it isn't hard to see what the Sixers are doing and why they insisted on only 1 year contracts this summer.  They are keeping open a max contract slot next summer.  And there are national people who have mentioned Philly as a landing spot.  Jason McIntyre from the Big Lead for example.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/07/18/so-maybe-you-just-go-where-you-want-to-play-woj-on-lebrons-dubious-future-in-cleveland/

"I’ve whittled down the options right now to the Lakers and 76ers"



The Sixers are something like the 10th favorite to win the title in Vegas this year.  And that is with Fultz and Simmons yet to play a game and Embiid at only 31 games in 3 years.  If those 3 guys all make it through the season relatively healthy and the former two actually look like they were worthy of being the 1st pick, then the Sixers are probably making the playoffs this year and look a team that could be winning titles for a decade with or without a max level free agent.  That has to be appealing to any max level free agent even if for no other reason I could go there and then they could trade some of those young guys to get me some vets and still have other young players to build around (you know the exact scenario Cleveland was in when James went back there a few years ago). 

The bottom line as I see it, if I am a player entering the twilight of my career and I want to win multiple championships before I retire, I'm going to look at a team with a plethora of young talent and preferably one that could sign me without giving up any of that young talent.  It would help if that team was in the East, though wouldn't rule out a western team.  The team that best fits that description is Philadelphia.  They have by far the most high level young talent in the league.  They are in the Eastern Conference.  They also still have all of their own picks and some prime draft picks from the Kings (or Lakers) two teams that aren't going to be very good.  They could keep some of those players and trade others to acquire a player or players to win now and in the future.  And they have so many assets they could easily acquire a top level talent (like Anthony Davis) and not strip the cupboard. 

Just because Philly isn't sexy and is ignored by the national media, doesn't mean Philly isn't going to be a real option for a top level player.  Maybe it isn't James, but Philly is absolutely going to be aggressive next summer, and if they make the playoffs or show great strides this year, I wouldn't count James out from going there as that is the exact type of team that could get James the title count he needs to go down as the greatest player ever.
If I'm the Sixers, I wouldn't particularly want James.  I'd prefer a more low key, low baggage star like PG.  James and Simmons wouldn't be a good fit either. 

They definitely won't have room for 2 Max free agents.  They'll renegotiate and extend Covington to a front loaded deal in November.  They don't want Covington hitting free agency.  If they can get some allowances for health, I'd expect them to extend Embiid too.
PG would work, but I think he pretty clearly either re-signs in OKC or goes to LAL.  I just don't see him going anywhere else.  James obviously brings a lot of baggage, but he is still the best player in the NBA and for a team like Philly that has been downright terrible for almost all of the last 30 years (they had that small AI run but otherwise awful), James gives them something they really haven't had.  I do think a max level SG would make the most sense for them, but none of those are available next summer (Bradley is probably the best SG on the market), and SF is the position that makes the next most sense (since I think Simmons is best suited at PF).  If they strike out, I wouldn't be surprised to them just bringing Redick back again as I do think he will play well on that team and in that role or they just go the lesser tier player route and sign Bradley (whose defense will cover for Fultz a lot). 

Covington re-signing in November would obviously eliminate any shot at 2 max free agents and if they can get him cheap enough they probably do it, but they seemingly don't see him as a long term starter.  He is the perfect 3 and D type player off the bench and provides a lot of versatility.
Why do you think that they don't see Covington as a long term starter?  He's probably a top 10 SF.  He's not going to be satisfied coming off the bench and they are unlikely to get a better starting SF.  When Covington was shooting dreadfully the 1st couple months last season and their fans were booing him, Brown kept him in the starting lineup because his defense was just too important for them.  He's a great fit with Fultz, Simmons and Embiid.  Renegotiating and extending him to a front loaded deal makes too much sense. 

I mentioned PG as the low key type of star that could fit into what they are building with their youth.  I agree that he mostly likely ends up with OKC or the Lakers.  James, Westbrook, etc would take over their team and potentially disrupt their youth rebuild.  I agree SG is probably what they should be looking at next offseason but they've maintained the flexibility to go in whichever direction that they need to as they see how things play out this season.
Covington is pretty similar to Crowder.  Not a guy you would really want as a long term starter as he just doesn't provide enough offense, though obviously if Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz all hit, they could get away with Covington starting (kind of like Roberson in the OKC hey day).  SG is the much bigger hole, there just aren't any top tier SG's available this summer and certainly no one worth the max and this is more than likely the last year they will have room for a max contract so they really do have to use it on someone.  If they can't get a bigger name, then I think they will go hard after Bradley.
A lot of teams would kill to have Crowder or Covington as their starting SF.  Covington is much better offensively than Roberson.  Crowder and Covington were both top 15 in pts at the SF position and I'd take them over several of the SFs in from of them (e.g. Gallinari, Chandler, Harris, Porter with his Max contract). 

The Sixers don't need a Max guy unless it is the right Max guy.  They are building around at least two of Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.  If I'm the Sixers, I think I'd prefer KCP over Bradley due to health and size.  Fultz, KCP, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a very switchable lineup.  That's going to be especially important with Simmons running their offense.  I wouldn't overpay to get either though and they shouldn't need to given the lack of cap space around the league.

Tazz thanks for being realistic. I think that both KCP or Bradley would be a good fit for them and also a realistic signing. We have had a few posters on here for years that have had pie in the sky hopes of the 76ers having every move they have ever made work out. The idea of them adding Lebron and Westbrook or Lebron and George to all their young players is perhaps the most extreme version of this. Health permitted they are going to be a thorn in the Celtics side for the next decade and hopefully the rivalry we can renew. It would be great for the league.

We don't need everything in the world for them to work out unrealistically perfectly to have that happen for them. Also, it is pretty fortunate for the Celtics that two top lottery picks in Noel and Okafor did not pan out for them because otherwise they would be even more daunting of a team.

Re: Why do people think Lakers are a lock to get Lebron?
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2017, 12:39:24 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The only way I see this is if the Lakers can figure out a way to get George, James, and some other star (like Westbrook).  That team would have a realistic shot with 3 stars and James isn't leaving Cleveland to go to a team less likely to even make the Finals.

If James goes the young player route, I maintain the Sixers are far more likely, especially if Embiid can stay relatively healthy this year and Simmons and Fultz look like they might hit their potential.  That would be a nearly identical situation to Cleveland when he went back, except the Sixers have more young pieces and enough cap room to flat out sign him without dumping anyone.  And if the Sixers do dump some players, they could theoretically acquire James and someone else.  Imagine James and Westbrook with Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz, with Saric, Holmes, and Covington on the bench (not to mention they might also have at least one more lottery pick in the next draft).  That team would be set up to win for a decade.


Do they have the cap space for PG3 and Lebron?
The Lakers can pretty easily make room for Lebron and PG13.  The Sixers are a bit trickier, but I believe they can get there by making a few salary dumps and by not extending Embiid now or renegotiating and extending Covington (which is why I don't think either of those happens).  Well they could extend Embiid now if he takes less than 18.3 million that 1st year which is his cap hold.  I just don't see him extending for less than that.  Covington's cap hold is only 1.5 million. 

So with that caveat, the Sixers have 40 million or so on the books for 18/19 which includes Fultz, Korkmaz, and Bayless as the only guarantees with the rest coming from team options on rookie deals for Simmons, Okafor, Saric, Anderson, Holmes, McConnell, and Luawawu-Cabarrot.  So that is 10 players (if they keep all of them).  You then add in Embiid and Covington and that puts the Sixers at right around 60 million with 12 players (so no other cap holds needed).  So that easily yields one max contract, but the 2nd is more problematic.  However, if they can dump Bayless' 8.5 million and they don't pick up guys like Okafor (6.3) and Anderson (2.5), then they would get awfully close to having room for 2 max contracts.  They could then re-sign Embiid and Covington (and as said if Embiid signs for less than his 18.3 million cap hold, they could re-sign him first and save more money off the cap). 

From a 2 max perspective they'd actually be better off transferring the LAL pick to Boston next year, because if they keep it when added to their own pick that hurts their potential cap space, though does add a couple of more roster spots making unloading someone like Okafor easier.  They also would be able to trade some of those players for that 2nd max contract if said player forced his way out.  OKC might be ok taking on Okafor, Anderson, etc. if they were going to lose George anyway.

From what I have read Covington is expected to get extended in November. I would also add that aside from 76er fans and you I haven't really heard anyone talk about the possibility of him signing in Philly.
Because him going to Philly isn't glamorous and won't drive ratings, but it isn't hard to see what the Sixers are doing and why they insisted on only 1 year contracts this summer.  They are keeping open a max contract slot next summer.  And there are national people who have mentioned Philly as a landing spot.  Jason McIntyre from the Big Lead for example.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/07/18/so-maybe-you-just-go-where-you-want-to-play-woj-on-lebrons-dubious-future-in-cleveland/

"I’ve whittled down the options right now to the Lakers and 76ers"



The Sixers are something like the 10th favorite to win the title in Vegas this year.  And that is with Fultz and Simmons yet to play a game and Embiid at only 31 games in 3 years.  If those 3 guys all make it through the season relatively healthy and the former two actually look like they were worthy of being the 1st pick, then the Sixers are probably making the playoffs this year and look a team that could be winning titles for a decade with or without a max level free agent.  That has to be appealing to any max level free agent even if for no other reason I could go there and then they could trade some of those young guys to get me some vets and still have other young players to build around (you know the exact scenario Cleveland was in when James went back there a few years ago). 

The bottom line as I see it, if I am a player entering the twilight of my career and I want to win multiple championships before I retire, I'm going to look at a team with a plethora of young talent and preferably one that could sign me without giving up any of that young talent.  It would help if that team was in the East, though wouldn't rule out a western team.  The team that best fits that description is Philadelphia.  They have by far the most high level young talent in the league.  They are in the Eastern Conference.  They also still have all of their own picks and some prime draft picks from the Kings (or Lakers) two teams that aren't going to be very good.  They could keep some of those players and trade others to acquire a player or players to win now and in the future.  And they have so many assets they could easily acquire a top level talent (like Anthony Davis) and not strip the cupboard. 

Just because Philly isn't sexy and is ignored by the national media, doesn't mean Philly isn't going to be a real option for a top level player.  Maybe it isn't James, but Philly is absolutely going to be aggressive next summer, and if they make the playoffs or show great strides this year, I wouldn't count James out from going there as that is the exact type of team that could get James the title count he needs to go down as the greatest player ever.
If I'm the Sixers, I wouldn't particularly want James.  I'd prefer a more low key, low baggage star like PG.  James and Simmons wouldn't be a good fit either. 

They definitely won't have room for 2 Max free agents.  They'll renegotiate and extend Covington to a front loaded deal in November.  They don't want Covington hitting free agency.  If they can get some allowances for health, I'd expect them to extend Embiid too.
PG would work, but I think he pretty clearly either re-signs in OKC or goes to LAL.  I just don't see him going anywhere else.  James obviously brings a lot of baggage, but he is still the best player in the NBA and for a team like Philly that has been downright terrible for almost all of the last 30 years (they had that small AI run but otherwise awful), James gives them something they really haven't had.  I do think a max level SG would make the most sense for them, but none of those are available next summer (Bradley is probably the best SG on the market), and SF is the position that makes the next most sense (since I think Simmons is best suited at PF).  If they strike out, I wouldn't be surprised to them just bringing Redick back again as I do think he will play well on that team and in that role or they just go the lesser tier player route and sign Bradley (whose defense will cover for Fultz a lot). 

Covington re-signing in November would obviously eliminate any shot at 2 max free agents and if they can get him cheap enough they probably do it, but they seemingly don't see him as a long term starter.  He is the perfect 3 and D type player off the bench and provides a lot of versatility.
Why do you think that they don't see Covington as a long term starter?  He's probably a top 10 SF.  He's not going to be satisfied coming off the bench and they are unlikely to get a better starting SF.  When Covington was shooting dreadfully the 1st couple months last season and their fans were booing him, Brown kept him in the starting lineup because his defense was just too important for them.  He's a great fit with Fultz, Simmons and Embiid.  Renegotiating and extending him to a front loaded deal makes too much sense. 

I mentioned PG as the low key type of star that could fit into what they are building with their youth.  I agree that he mostly likely ends up with OKC or the Lakers.  James, Westbrook, etc would take over their team and potentially disrupt their youth rebuild.  I agree SG is probably what they should be looking at next offseason but they've maintained the flexibility to go in whichever direction that they need to as they see how things play out this season.
Covington is pretty similar to Crowder.  Not a guy you would really want as a long term starter as he just doesn't provide enough offense, though obviously if Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz all hit, they could get away with Covington starting (kind of like Roberson in the OKC hey day).  SG is the much bigger hole, there just aren't any top tier SG's available this summer and certainly no one worth the max and this is more than likely the last year they will have room for a max contract so they really do have to use it on someone.  If they can't get a bigger name, then I think they will go hard after Bradley.
A lot of teams would kill to have Crowder or Covington as their starting SF.  Covington is much better offensively than Roberson.  Crowder and Covington were both top 15 in pts at the SF position and I'd take them over several of the SFs in from of them (e.g. Gallinari, Chandler, Harris, Porter with his Max contract). 

The Sixers don't need a Max guy unless it is the right Max guy.  They are building around at least two of Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.  If I'm the Sixers, I think I'd prefer KCP over Bradley due to health and size.  Fultz, KCP, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a very switchable lineup.  That's going to be especially important with Simmons running their offense.  I wouldn't overpay to get either though and they shouldn't need to given the lack of cap space around the league.
A lot of teams aren't contenders either (I'm not saying the Sixers are, but they clearly think they will be in a couple of seasons).  And yes Crowder is a better offensive player than Roberson, but he isn't as good a defender as Roberson is.  Roberson is an absolutely elite top of the line defender.  His 2nd Team All Defense last year will be the first of many such awards (well I actually expect him to be getting 1st Teams and plenty of votes for DPOY). 

KCP is ok, but he isn't the on ball defender Bradley is, nor is he as versatile defensively (i.e. Bradley would allow the Sixers to hide Fultz on the worse guard, KCP can't really defend opposing PG's consistently well enough for that to be the long term answer), and he is no where near the shooter.  Bradley makes more sense for those reasons. 
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Re: Why do people think Lakers are a lock to get Lebron?
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2017, 01:10:45 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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The only way I see this is if the Lakers can figure out a way to get George, James, and some other star (like Westbrook).  That team would have a realistic shot with 3 stars and James isn't leaving Cleveland to go to a team less likely to even make the Finals.

If James goes the young player route, I maintain the Sixers are far more likely, especially if Embiid can stay relatively healthy this year and Simmons and Fultz look like they might hit their potential.  That would be a nearly identical situation to Cleveland when he went back, except the Sixers have more young pieces and enough cap room to flat out sign him without dumping anyone.  And if the Sixers do dump some players, they could theoretically acquire James and someone else.  Imagine James and Westbrook with Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz, with Saric, Holmes, and Covington on the bench (not to mention they might also have at least one more lottery pick in the next draft).  That team would be set up to win for a decade.


Do they have the cap space for PG3 and Lebron?
The Lakers can pretty easily make room for Lebron and PG13.  The Sixers are a bit trickier, but I believe they can get there by making a few salary dumps and by not extending Embiid now or renegotiating and extending Covington (which is why I don't think either of those happens).  Well they could extend Embiid now if he takes less than 18.3 million that 1st year which is his cap hold.  I just don't see him extending for less than that.  Covington's cap hold is only 1.5 million. 

So with that caveat, the Sixers have 40 million or so on the books for 18/19 which includes Fultz, Korkmaz, and Bayless as the only guarantees with the rest coming from team options on rookie deals for Simmons, Okafor, Saric, Anderson, Holmes, McConnell, and Luawawu-Cabarrot.  So that is 10 players (if they keep all of them).  You then add in Embiid and Covington and that puts the Sixers at right around 60 million with 12 players (so no other cap holds needed).  So that easily yields one max contract, but the 2nd is more problematic.  However, if they can dump Bayless' 8.5 million and they don't pick up guys like Okafor (6.3) and Anderson (2.5), then they would get awfully close to having room for 2 max contracts.  They could then re-sign Embiid and Covington (and as said if Embiid signs for less than his 18.3 million cap hold, they could re-sign him first and save more money off the cap). 

From a 2 max perspective they'd actually be better off transferring the LAL pick to Boston next year, because if they keep it when added to their own pick that hurts their potential cap space, though does add a couple of more roster spots making unloading someone like Okafor easier.  They also would be able to trade some of those players for that 2nd max contract if said player forced his way out.  OKC might be ok taking on Okafor, Anderson, etc. if they were going to lose George anyway.

From what I have read Covington is expected to get extended in November. I would also add that aside from 76er fans and you I haven't really heard anyone talk about the possibility of him signing in Philly.
Because him going to Philly isn't glamorous and won't drive ratings, but it isn't hard to see what the Sixers are doing and why they insisted on only 1 year contracts this summer.  They are keeping open a max contract slot next summer.  And there are national people who have mentioned Philly as a landing spot.  Jason McIntyre from the Big Lead for example.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/07/18/so-maybe-you-just-go-where-you-want-to-play-woj-on-lebrons-dubious-future-in-cleveland/

"I’ve whittled down the options right now to the Lakers and 76ers"



The Sixers are something like the 10th favorite to win the title in Vegas this year.  And that is with Fultz and Simmons yet to play a game and Embiid at only 31 games in 3 years.  If those 3 guys all make it through the season relatively healthy and the former two actually look like they were worthy of being the 1st pick, then the Sixers are probably making the playoffs this year and look a team that could be winning titles for a decade with or without a max level free agent.  That has to be appealing to any max level free agent even if for no other reason I could go there and then they could trade some of those young guys to get me some vets and still have other young players to build around (you know the exact scenario Cleveland was in when James went back there a few years ago). 

The bottom line as I see it, if I am a player entering the twilight of my career and I want to win multiple championships before I retire, I'm going to look at a team with a plethora of young talent and preferably one that could sign me without giving up any of that young talent.  It would help if that team was in the East, though wouldn't rule out a western team.  The team that best fits that description is Philadelphia.  They have by far the most high level young talent in the league.  They are in the Eastern Conference.  They also still have all of their own picks and some prime draft picks from the Kings (or Lakers) two teams that aren't going to be very good.  They could keep some of those players and trade others to acquire a player or players to win now and in the future.  And they have so many assets they could easily acquire a top level talent (like Anthony Davis) and not strip the cupboard. 

Just because Philly isn't sexy and is ignored by the national media, doesn't mean Philly isn't going to be a real option for a top level player.  Maybe it isn't James, but Philly is absolutely going to be aggressive next summer, and if they make the playoffs or show great strides this year, I wouldn't count James out from going there as that is the exact type of team that could get James the title count he needs to go down as the greatest player ever.
If I'm the Sixers, I wouldn't particularly want James.  I'd prefer a more low key, low baggage star like PG.  James and Simmons wouldn't be a good fit either. 

They definitely won't have room for 2 Max free agents.  They'll renegotiate and extend Covington to a front loaded deal in November.  They don't want Covington hitting free agency.  If they can get some allowances for health, I'd expect them to extend Embiid too.
PG would work, but I think he pretty clearly either re-signs in OKC or goes to LAL.  I just don't see him going anywhere else.  James obviously brings a lot of baggage, but he is still the best player in the NBA and for a team like Philly that has been downright terrible for almost all of the last 30 years (they had that small AI run but otherwise awful), James gives them something they really haven't had.  I do think a max level SG would make the most sense for them, but none of those are available next summer (Bradley is probably the best SG on the market), and SF is the position that makes the next most sense (since I think Simmons is best suited at PF).  If they strike out, I wouldn't be surprised to them just bringing Redick back again as I do think he will play well on that team and in that role or they just go the lesser tier player route and sign Bradley (whose defense will cover for Fultz a lot). 

Covington re-signing in November would obviously eliminate any shot at 2 max free agents and if they can get him cheap enough they probably do it, but they seemingly don't see him as a long term starter.  He is the perfect 3 and D type player off the bench and provides a lot of versatility.
Why do you think that they don't see Covington as a long term starter?  He's probably a top 10 SF.  He's not going to be satisfied coming off the bench and they are unlikely to get a better starting SF.  When Covington was shooting dreadfully the 1st couple months last season and their fans were booing him, Brown kept him in the starting lineup because his defense was just too important for them.  He's a great fit with Fultz, Simmons and Embiid.  Renegotiating and extending him to a front loaded deal makes too much sense. 

I mentioned PG as the low key type of star that could fit into what they are building with their youth.  I agree that he mostly likely ends up with OKC or the Lakers.  James, Westbrook, etc would take over their team and potentially disrupt their youth rebuild.  I agree SG is probably what they should be looking at next offseason but they've maintained the flexibility to go in whichever direction that they need to as they see how things play out this season.
Covington is pretty similar to Crowder.  Not a guy you would really want as a long term starter as he just doesn't provide enough offense, though obviously if Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz all hit, they could get away with Covington starting (kind of like Roberson in the OKC hey day).  SG is the much bigger hole, there just aren't any top tier SG's available this summer and certainly no one worth the max and this is more than likely the last year they will have room for a max contract so they really do have to use it on someone.  If they can't get a bigger name, then I think they will go hard after Bradley.
A lot of teams would kill to have Crowder or Covington as their starting SF.  Covington is much better offensively than Roberson.  Crowder and Covington were both top 15 in pts at the SF position and I'd take them over several of the SFs in from of them (e.g. Gallinari, Chandler, Harris, Porter with his Max contract). 

The Sixers don't need a Max guy unless it is the right Max guy.  They are building around at least two of Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.  If I'm the Sixers, I think I'd prefer KCP over Bradley due to health and size.  Fultz, KCP, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a very switchable lineup.  That's going to be especially important with Simmons running their offense.  I wouldn't overpay to get either though and they shouldn't need to given the lack of cap space around the league.

Tazz thanks for being realistic. I think that both KCP or Bradley would be a good fit for them and also a realistic signing. We have had a few posters on here for years that have had pie in the sky hopes of the 76ers having every move they have ever made work out. The idea of them adding Lebron and Westbrook or Lebron and George to all their young players is perhaps the most extreme version of this. Health permitted they are going to be a thorn in the Celtics side for the next decade and hopefully the rivalry we can renew. It would be great for the league.

We don't need everything in the world for them to work out unrealistically perfectly to have that happen for them. Also, it is pretty fortunate for the Celtics that two top lottery picks in Noel and Okafor did not pan out for them because otherwise they would be even more daunting of a team.
I wouldn't totally write off Okafor yet.  I expected them to trade him during the draft for another fake first under the cover of the euphoria of getting Fultz.  It'll be interesting to see if they pick up his 4th year option.  If they do, it hurts their cap space but if they don't his trade value is zero. 

Apparently, he's switched to a near vegan diet and lost 20 lbs.  Playing with Simmons and Fultz could make him look significantly better offensively.  He's also hopefully fully recovered from his knee issues.  Maybe he can become a solid backup or bump his value to get a real 1st. 
He seems to be handling the situation a lot better than Noel did. 

Re: Why do people think Lakers are a lock to get Lebron?
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2017, 01:52:44 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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The only way I see this is if the Lakers can figure out a way to get George, James, and some other star (like Westbrook).  That team would have a realistic shot with 3 stars and James isn't leaving Cleveland to go to a team less likely to even make the Finals.

If James goes the young player route, I maintain the Sixers are far more likely, especially if Embiid can stay relatively healthy this year and Simmons and Fultz look like they might hit their potential.  That would be a nearly identical situation to Cleveland when he went back, except the Sixers have more young pieces and enough cap room to flat out sign him without dumping anyone.  And if the Sixers do dump some players, they could theoretically acquire James and someone else.  Imagine James and Westbrook with Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz, with Saric, Holmes, and Covington on the bench (not to mention they might also have at least one more lottery pick in the next draft).  That team would be set up to win for a decade.


Do they have the cap space for PG3 and Lebron?
The Lakers can pretty easily make room for Lebron and PG13.  The Sixers are a bit trickier, but I believe they can get there by making a few salary dumps and by not extending Embiid now or renegotiating and extending Covington (which is why I don't think either of those happens).  Well they could extend Embiid now if he takes less than 18.3 million that 1st year which is his cap hold.  I just don't see him extending for less than that.  Covington's cap hold is only 1.5 million. 

So with that caveat, the Sixers have 40 million or so on the books for 18/19 which includes Fultz, Korkmaz, and Bayless as the only guarantees with the rest coming from team options on rookie deals for Simmons, Okafor, Saric, Anderson, Holmes, McConnell, and Luawawu-Cabarrot.  So that is 10 players (if they keep all of them).  You then add in Embiid and Covington and that puts the Sixers at right around 60 million with 12 players (so no other cap holds needed).  So that easily yields one max contract, but the 2nd is more problematic.  However, if they can dump Bayless' 8.5 million and they don't pick up guys like Okafor (6.3) and Anderson (2.5), then they would get awfully close to having room for 2 max contracts.  They could then re-sign Embiid and Covington (and as said if Embiid signs for less than his 18.3 million cap hold, they could re-sign him first and save more money off the cap). 

From a 2 max perspective they'd actually be better off transferring the LAL pick to Boston next year, because if they keep it when added to their own pick that hurts their potential cap space, though does add a couple of more roster spots making unloading someone like Okafor easier.  They also would be able to trade some of those players for that 2nd max contract if said player forced his way out.  OKC might be ok taking on Okafor, Anderson, etc. if they were going to lose George anyway.

From what I have read Covington is expected to get extended in November. I would also add that aside from 76er fans and you I haven't really heard anyone talk about the possibility of him signing in Philly.
Because him going to Philly isn't glamorous and won't drive ratings, but it isn't hard to see what the Sixers are doing and why they insisted on only 1 year contracts this summer.  They are keeping open a max contract slot next summer.  And there are national people who have mentioned Philly as a landing spot.  Jason McIntyre from the Big Lead for example.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/07/18/so-maybe-you-just-go-where-you-want-to-play-woj-on-lebrons-dubious-future-in-cleveland/

"I’ve whittled down the options right now to the Lakers and 76ers"



The Sixers are something like the 10th favorite to win the title in Vegas this year.  And that is with Fultz and Simmons yet to play a game and Embiid at only 31 games in 3 years.  If those 3 guys all make it through the season relatively healthy and the former two actually look like they were worthy of being the 1st pick, then the Sixers are probably making the playoffs this year and look a team that could be winning titles for a decade with or without a max level free agent.  That has to be appealing to any max level free agent even if for no other reason I could go there and then they could trade some of those young guys to get me some vets and still have other young players to build around (you know the exact scenario Cleveland was in when James went back there a few years ago). 

The bottom line as I see it, if I am a player entering the twilight of my career and I want to win multiple championships before I retire, I'm going to look at a team with a plethora of young talent and preferably one that could sign me without giving up any of that young talent.  It would help if that team was in the East, though wouldn't rule out a western team.  The team that best fits that description is Philadelphia.  They have by far the most high level young talent in the league.  They are in the Eastern Conference.  They also still have all of their own picks and some prime draft picks from the Kings (or Lakers) two teams that aren't going to be very good.  They could keep some of those players and trade others to acquire a player or players to win now and in the future.  And they have so many assets they could easily acquire a top level talent (like Anthony Davis) and not strip the cupboard. 

Just because Philly isn't sexy and is ignored by the national media, doesn't mean Philly isn't going to be a real option for a top level player.  Maybe it isn't James, but Philly is absolutely going to be aggressive next summer, and if they make the playoffs or show great strides this year, I wouldn't count James out from going there as that is the exact type of team that could get James the title count he needs to go down as the greatest player ever.
If I'm the Sixers, I wouldn't particularly want James.  I'd prefer a more low key, low baggage star like PG.  James and Simmons wouldn't be a good fit either. 

They definitely won't have room for 2 Max free agents.  They'll renegotiate and extend Covington to a front loaded deal in November.  They don't want Covington hitting free agency.  If they can get some allowances for health, I'd expect them to extend Embiid too.
PG would work, but I think he pretty clearly either re-signs in OKC or goes to LAL.  I just don't see him going anywhere else.  James obviously brings a lot of baggage, but he is still the best player in the NBA and for a team like Philly that has been downright terrible for almost all of the last 30 years (they had that small AI run but otherwise awful), James gives them something they really haven't had.  I do think a max level SG would make the most sense for them, but none of those are available next summer (Bradley is probably the best SG on the market), and SF is the position that makes the next most sense (since I think Simmons is best suited at PF).  If they strike out, I wouldn't be surprised to them just bringing Redick back again as I do think he will play well on that team and in that role or they just go the lesser tier player route and sign Bradley (whose defense will cover for Fultz a lot). 

Covington re-signing in November would obviously eliminate any shot at 2 max free agents and if they can get him cheap enough they probably do it, but they seemingly don't see him as a long term starter.  He is the perfect 3 and D type player off the bench and provides a lot of versatility.
Why do you think that they don't see Covington as a long term starter?  He's probably a top 10 SF.  He's not going to be satisfied coming off the bench and they are unlikely to get a better starting SF.  When Covington was shooting dreadfully the 1st couple months last season and their fans were booing him, Brown kept him in the starting lineup because his defense was just too important for them.  He's a great fit with Fultz, Simmons and Embiid.  Renegotiating and extending him to a front loaded deal makes too much sense. 

I mentioned PG as the low key type of star that could fit into what they are building with their youth.  I agree that he mostly likely ends up with OKC or the Lakers.  James, Westbrook, etc would take over their team and potentially disrupt their youth rebuild.  I agree SG is probably what they should be looking at next offseason but they've maintained the flexibility to go in whichever direction that they need to as they see how things play out this season.
Covington is pretty similar to Crowder.  Not a guy you would really want as a long term starter as he just doesn't provide enough offense, though obviously if Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz all hit, they could get away with Covington starting (kind of like Roberson in the OKC hey day).  SG is the much bigger hole, there just aren't any top tier SG's available this summer and certainly no one worth the max and this is more than likely the last year they will have room for a max contract so they really do have to use it on someone.  If they can't get a bigger name, then I think they will go hard after Bradley.
A lot of teams would kill to have Crowder or Covington as their starting SF.  Covington is much better offensively than Roberson.  Crowder and Covington were both top 15 in pts at the SF position and I'd take them over several of the SFs in from of them (e.g. Gallinari, Chandler, Harris, Porter with his Max contract). 

The Sixers don't need a Max guy unless it is the right Max guy.  They are building around at least two of Embiid, Simmons and Fultz.  If I'm the Sixers, I think I'd prefer KCP over Bradley due to health and size.  Fultz, KCP, Covington, Simmons and Embiid is a very switchable lineup.  That's going to be especially important with Simmons running their offense.  I wouldn't overpay to get either though and they shouldn't need to given the lack of cap space around the league.
A lot of teams aren't contenders either (I'm not saying the Sixers are, but they clearly think they will be in a couple of seasons).  And yes Crowder is a better offensive player than Roberson, but he isn't as good a defender as Roberson is.  Roberson is an absolutely elite top of the line defender.  His 2nd Team All Defense last year will be the first of many such awards (well I actually expect him to be getting 1st Teams and plenty of votes for DPOY). 

KCP is ok, but he isn't the on ball defender Bradley is, nor is he as versatile defensively (i.e. Bradley would allow the Sixers to hide Fultz on the worse guard, KCP can't really defend opposing PG's consistently well enough for that to be the long term answer), and he is no where near the shooter.  Bradley makes more sense for those reasons.
Unless it is via the draft, there is not a option at SF that they could realistically obtain who would be better than Covington for them.  Like I said, I wouldn't overpay for Bradley or KCP.  I'd rather sign Reddick at 2yr/20M than either of them at 4yr/80M.