Author Topic: Trade for Anthony Davis?  (Read 1569 times)

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Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 08:00:32 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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 Here is  how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.

We won't be able to pay him in 3 years if we re-sign Irving and our young players develop as expected. That's not happening.

We need a trade next summer, but MANY domino pieces have to fall:

1. Pelicans have a disaster year with locker room issues.
2. The LAL pick gets much value as they finish with one of the top-4 records.
3. Tatum or Brown play much better than expected and can be central exchanging pieces.
4. The cap allows this trade to happen without having to send them those 25 million in salary.
5. Our management accept to pay a very high luxury cap. Horford, Hayward, Davis and Irving alone will make around 110 million.

Possible trade: Brown OR Tatum, Morris (friendly contract), LAL 1st, MEM 1st (more valuable than many people think) and Yabusele/Semi (sweetener) for AD.

I just don't see Horford in this trade if our team performs well this year and we enter win-now full mode.

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 08:32:11 AM »

Online jambr380

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I just don't see Danny giving up Brown, Tatum, and the LAL/Sac pick. If it only takes one of Brown/Tatum, then wonderful, but I believe New Orleans will have other options if that's the case - like PHX with their pick and Jackson or Indy with their pick and Turner. Any bad team will automatically have a high pick and they would just need to add a comparable prospect.

After this season, Davis will only have two more years guaranteed on his contract. Unless he demands to go to certain team(s), we won't be in the driver's seat.

I very much hope we can somehow acquire Davis one day, but I think it will be very difficult to make happen.

He just gave up a 29 PPG scorer and die hard fan favourite, an elite two-way role player on one of the NBA's best contracts, a quality 20 year old 7-footer with legit upside, and a potential #1 pick for Kyrie Irving.

If he has a chance to get Anthony Davis, then I don't think he would have even the slightest hint of hesitation trading Tatum, Brown and a couple of quality picks.

I see Tatum's ceiling as Carmelo Anthony, Brown's ceiling as Jimmy Butler.  Even if those guys do (best case scenario) reach those ceilings in the future - you are basically choosing between a core of Kyrie / Hayward / Davis / Horford or a core of Kyrie / Hayward / prime Butler/ prime Melo / Horford core. 

It's a big call, but I'd probably have to take the Anthony Davis roster in that scenario...and that's assuming both guys do excel reach their absolute ceilings, which is far from a given.  So once you factor in the uncertainty there, the AD trade is (to my mind) an no brainer.   

You make it sound like we gave up four all-stars or potential all-stars. There is really just one elite prospect/asset in that group; the rest are replaceable. Danny only traded one top asset for Irving - I just don't know if he will triple that for Davis.

If faced with the decision today, I would probably just say 'screw it' and do the trade with Brown, Tatum, and the LAL pick; but luckily, that decision won't need to come until at least after the season. At that point, Davis will only have two guaranteed years left on his contract and can [frankly] dictate where he wants to go (much like Kyrie). He seems more like KG in terms of loyalty, but that Pelicans team has been a trainwreck for years.

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 08:48:08 AM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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 Here is how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.
Man, he is gone from N.O. within 10 months. We just have to be able to pay the most. Trade, just like KG.

This is where I'm at as well. I think the Pelicans have to see Tatum or Brown play and pick the best one. I think it would have to be

Horford
Tatum or Brown
LA\Sac 2018 pick
Memphis pick
Clippers pick

Horford would have to be included to make the money work.



Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2017, 09:06:27 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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 Here is  how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.

[dang] that pesky salary cap, which we will likely still be over at that time after resigning smart to an overpriced deal.

The Celtics are committed to winning. I don't see luxury tax implications as a limitation for this particular franchise, esp if other teams are paying it.

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2017, 09:26:02 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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 Here is  how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.

[dang] that pesky salary cap, which we will likely still be over at that time after resigning smart to an overpriced deal.

The Celtics are committed to winning. I don't see luxury tax implications as a limitation for this particular franchise, esp if other teams are paying it.

Luxury Tax =/= Salary Cap

It doesn't matter how "committed to winning" ownership is, or how willing to pay the tax they are, you can't sign a player without cap room (or an exception).  In 2020 we'll likely have $65-70 million between Irving and Hayward, plus Brown as an RFA and Smart on whatever his next contract is.  There won't be enough money to sign AD
I'm bitter.

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2017, 09:31:26 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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 Here is  how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.

[dang] that pesky salary cap, which we will likely still be over at that time after resigning smart to an overpriced deal.

The Celtics are committed to winning. I don't see luxury tax implications as a limitation for this particular franchise, esp if other teams are paying it.

Luxury Tax =/= Salary Cap

It doesn't matter how "committed to winning" ownership is, or how willing to pay the tax they are, you can't sign a player without cap room (or an exception).  In 2020 we'll likely have $65-70 million between Irving and Hayward, plus Brown as an RFA and Smart on whatever his next contract is.  There won't be enough money to sign AD

How do you know what the salary cap will be in 2020, let alone whether the Celtics will be able to pay it? Considering how active Danny is, I find it hard to predict what players will be on the team 3 yrs from now.

Also, why couldn't you trade for AD to stay under the cap (passing on Smart, etc), then resign him years from now? I don't get why you're saying this isn't possible.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 09:38:20 AM by green_bballers13 »

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 09:46:30 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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 Here is  how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.

[dang] that pesky salary cap, which we will likely still be over at that time after resigning smart to an overpriced deal.

The Celtics are committed to winning. I don't see luxury tax implications as a limitation for this particular franchise, esp if other teams are paying it.

It's irrelevant to our inability to sign Anthony Davis as a free agent. We are over the cap.

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 09:50:23 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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 Here is how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.
Man, he is gone from N.O. within 10 months. We just have to be able to pay the most. Trade, just like KG.

This is where I'm at as well. I think the Pelicans have to see Tatum or Brown play and pick the best one. I think it would have to be

Horford
Tatum or Brown
LA\Sac 2018 pick
Memphis pick
Clippers pick

Horford would have to be included to make the money work.

If we're making that deal next summer, we probably wouldn't need to include him.

AD will make $25.4 million next year.  That means that we would need ~$20.4 million in outgoing salary.  By including Tatum's $6.7 million, that drops to $13.7 million. Figure that the LA pick drops to #5, and that's a ~$4 million addition (if we waited 30 days after signing the pick, which would be a no brainer).  Throw in Morris' $5.4 million expiring deal and we'd be just $4.6 million short. Rozier's $3 million and either Yabu or two small salaries (Semi, Nader, Theis, Celtics 2018 1st) would get it done.  Brown makes it a little harder (but still fairly easy) to match, and the LA pick being higher would make things easier.

I think pairing Horford and AD in the frontcourt would be worth giving all of that up. Our depth wouldn't be great, but a Kyrie/Brown?/Hayward/Davis/Horford lineup would be 100% worth it. That said, I can't see NOP trading him anytime soon.
I'm bitter.

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2017, 10:12:11 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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 Here is  how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.

[dang] that pesky salary cap, which we will likely still be over at that time after resigning smart to an overpriced deal.

The Celtics are committed to winning. I don't see luxury tax implications as a limitation for this particular franchise, esp if other teams are paying it.

Luxury Tax =/= Salary Cap

It doesn't matter how "committed to winning" ownership is, or how willing to pay the tax they are, you can't sign a player without cap room (or an exception).  In 2020 we'll likely have $65-70 million between Irving and Hayward, plus Brown as an RFA and Smart on whatever his next contract is.  There won't be enough money to sign AD

How do you know what the salary cap will be in 2020, let alone whether the Celtics will be able to pay it? Considering how active Danny is, I find it hard to predict what players will be on the team 3 yrs from now.

Also, why couldn't you trade for AD to stay under the cap (passing on Smart, etc), then resign him years from now? I don't get why you're saying this isn't possible.

No one knows for sure what the cap will be in 2020, but it's not going to jump as much as we would need it to to sign Davis to 30% of the cap. Cap jumps like in 2016 are very rare and known about years in advance.

And sure, the team could change drastically, but I don't see Irving or Hayward going anywhere (and if they do, I don't see AD signing here), so that's ~65% of the 2019 cap taken up. Assume a large cap jump (~5%) and that's ~62% instead.  That would mean we would need <8% of the cap from the rest of the rostered players/cap holds, which is basically impossible unless it's a mix of empty roster spots and minimum salary rookies. So, it's not impossible for us to have enough space to sign AD and have a good enough team to convince him, just unrealistic.

I never said we couldn't trade for him. Trading for him is a completely different animal.  That is very possible (especially after the season), and would be the best choice (we'd have to give up a lot for him, but we'd probably have to give up more to get under the cap to sign him).  Trading for him and then using his Bird Rights to resign him later is basically the only way this works.
I'm bitter.

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 10:15:51 AM »

Online smokeablount

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 Here is how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.
Man, he is gone from N.O. within 10 months. We just have to be able to pay the most. Trade, just like KG.

This is where I'm at as well. I think the Pelicans have to see Tatum or Brown play and pick the best one. I think it would have to be

Horford
Tatum or Brown
LA\Sac 2018 pick
Memphis pick
Clippers pick

Horford would have to be included to make the money work.

If we're making that deal next summer, we probably wouldn't need to include him.

AD will make $25.4 million next year.  That means that we would need ~$20.4 million in outgoing salary.  By including Tatum's $6.7 million, that drops to $13.7 million. Figure that the LA pick drops to #5, and that's a ~$4 million addition (if we waited 30 days after signing the pick, which would be a no brainer).  Throw in Morris' $5.4 million expiring deal and we'd be just $4.6 million short. Rozier's $3 million and either Yabu or two small salaries (Semi, Nader, Theis, Celtics 2018 1st) would get it done.  Brown makes it a little harder (but still fairly easy) to match, and the LA pick being higher would make things easier.

I think pairing Horford and AD in the frontcourt would be worth giving all of that up. Our depth wouldn't be great, but a Kyrie/Brown?/Hayward/Davis/Horford lineup would be 100% worth it. That said, I can't see NOP trading him anytime soon.

I'm also not sure why they would trade him in the next calendar year unless he demanded it. 

They have this year to see if the fit with DMC works, and if it doesn't work or if DMC leaves, I'm sure they'd want at least another half a season to see if 2018-2019 could turn things around.

If that's the case, we'd only have a top tier pick available if the LA pick doesn't convey this year.  I know most of us are pulling for the LA pick to land #2-5, but it might actually be better for landing Davis if it doesn't convey.  It seems like draft picks are worth inherently more before a player is picked than after (in most cases), so a 2019 pick that could land top 5 might very well be more enticing to New Orleans than whoever we'd pick of Bamba/Ayton/Doncic.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 10:17:32 AM »

Online ETNCeltics

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If it were up to me, no way I'd mortgage everything for AD. You're basically giving up every asset that could improve the franchise long-term to acquire an essentially fixed team of Hayward, AD, Kyrie, and an aging Horford. If that core isn't good enough to beat GSW, and it may very well not be, then you're stuck, with a luxury tax the owners won't pay for long, and no assets left to get you over the hump. The same position Cleveland is in now. You'd have taken the very long window we have now and reduced it to a few years. I hope that isn't what Ainge is depending on.

If Ainge isn't good enough to take advantage and turn the young talent and high draft picks into star players, and Brad isn't coach enough to develop those young players, then we have the wrong men in charge.

Frankly, I have little interest in trying to win a title by piecing together a team full of other teams players and squeak another one out like we did a decade ago. There is no substitute for having a core of young stars who can stay together for a decade. 5 years down the road when guys like Bagley and Porter and Tatum and Brown are stars, we'd be left with an old, overpaid roster and in dire need of a rebuild.

If it involves giving up Tatum/Brown and our good #1s, no thanks.

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 11:01:27 AM »

Offline Androslav

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10 months and he is out of New Orleans. 11 tops. If not, then he is more loyal than Tim Duncan and is satisfied with being on a mediocre team for the next 5 years of his prime.
"The joy of the balling under the rim."

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 11:44:33 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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 Here is  how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.

[dang] that pesky salary cap, which we will likely still be over at that time after resigning smart to an overpriced deal.

The Celtics are committed to winning. I don't see luxury tax implications as a limitation for this particular franchise, esp if other teams are paying it.

Luxury Tax =/= Salary Cap

It doesn't matter how "committed to winning" ownership is, or how willing to pay the tax they are, you can't sign a player without cap room (or an exception).  In 2020 we'll likely have $65-70 million between Irving and Hayward, plus Brown as an RFA and Smart on whatever his next contract is.  There won't be enough money to sign AD

How do you know what the salary cap will be in 2020, let alone whether the Celtics will be able to pay it? Considering how active Danny is, I find it hard to predict what players will be on the team 3 yrs from now.

Also, why couldn't you trade for AD to stay under the cap (passing on Smart, etc), then resign him years from now? I don't get why you're saying this isn't possible.

No one knows for sure what the cap will be in 2020, but it's not going to jump as much as we would need it to to sign Davis to 30% of the cap. Cap jumps like in 2016 are very rare and known about years in advance.

And sure, the team could change drastically, but I don't see Irving or Hayward going anywhere (and if they do, I don't see AD signing here), so that's ~65% of the 2019 cap taken up. Assume a large cap jump (~5%) and that's ~62% instead.  That would mean we would need <8% of the cap from the rest of the rostered players/cap holds, which is basically impossible unless it's a mix of empty roster spots and minimum salary rookies. So, it's not impossible for us to have enough space to sign AD and have a good enough team to convince him, just unrealistic.

I never said we couldn't trade for him. Trading for him is a completely different animal.  That is very possible (especially after the season), and would be the best choice (we'd have to give up a lot for him, but we'd probably have to give up more to get under the cap to sign him).  Trading for him and then using his Bird Rights to resign him later is basically the only way this works.

Not sure where the confusion began. I titled the thread: Trade for Anthony Davis?

I think Danny has the best opportunity to acquire AD through a trade, not through FA. I think there are more compelling options out there for AD on the open market (LAL w Westbrook/George or Lebron, SA with Kawhi/Pop and the Texas tax situation, etc).

The Celtics competitive advantage includes: their tradable assets (Brown/Tatum, picks), Kyrie Irving, "super role players" (Hayward/Horford), and Brad Stevens. We are better suited for a trade than an outright signing (though we were able to secure both Hayward and Horford in FA).

I think AD is the next level of talent. To get him in, I think you make the trade, and hopefully he likes Kyrie. Otherwise, one (or both) end up leaving in FA. Even with this risk, I think it is worth it for Danny to go all in.

Re: Trade for Anthony Davis?
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2017, 12:16:39 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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 Here is  how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.

[dang] that pesky salary cap, which we will likely still be over at that time after resigning smart to an overpriced deal.

The Celtics are committed to winning. I don't see luxury tax implications as a limitation for this particular franchise, esp if other teams are paying it.

Luxury Tax =/= Salary Cap

It doesn't matter how "committed to winning" ownership is, or how willing to pay the tax they are, you can't sign a player without cap room (or an exception).  In 2020 we'll likely have $65-70 million between Irving and Hayward, plus Brown as an RFA and Smart on whatever his next contract is.  There won't be enough money to sign AD

How do you know what the salary cap will be in 2020, let alone whether the Celtics will be able to pay it? Considering how active Danny is, I find it hard to predict what players will be on the team 3 yrs from now.

Also, why couldn't you trade for AD to stay under the cap (passing on Smart, etc), then resign him years from now? I don't get why you're saying this isn't possible.

No one knows for sure what the cap will be in 2020, but it's not going to jump as much as we would need it to to sign Davis to 30% of the cap. Cap jumps like in 2016 are very rare and known about years in advance.

And sure, the team could change drastically, but I don't see Irving or Hayward going anywhere (and if they do, I don't see AD signing here), so that's ~65% of the 2019 cap taken up. Assume a large cap jump (~5%) and that's ~62% instead.  That would mean we would need <8% of the cap from the rest of the rostered players/cap holds, which is basically impossible unless it's a mix of empty roster spots and minimum salary rookies. So, it's not impossible for us to have enough space to sign AD and have a good enough team to convince him, just unrealistic.

I never said we couldn't trade for him. Trading for him is a completely different animal.  That is very possible (especially after the season), and would be the best choice (we'd have to give up a lot for him, but we'd probably have to give up more to get under the cap to sign him).  Trading for him and then using his Bird Rights to resign him later is basically the only way this works.

Not sure where the confusion began. I titled the thread: Trade for Anthony Davis?

I think Danny has the best opportunity to acquire AD through a trade, not through FA. I think there are more compelling options out there for AD on the open market (LAL w Westbrook/George or Lebron, SA with Kawhi/Pop and the Texas tax situation, etc).

The Celtics competitive advantage includes: their tradable assets (Brown/Tatum, picks), Kyrie Irving, "super role players" (Hayward/Horford), and Brad Stevens. We are better suited for a trade than an outright signing (though we were able to secure both Hayward and Horford in FA).

I think AD is the next level of talent. To get him in, I think you make the trade, and hopefully he likes Kyrie. Otherwise, one (or both) end up leaving in FA. Even with this risk, I think it is worth it for Danny to go all in.

I wasn't replying to the original post or thread title, I was replying to your response to crimson_stallion (who was responding to KG Living Legend saying that we should sign AD in free agency):


 Here is  how Davis joins the Celtics. 3 years from now when he's 27 years old he leaves as a free agent to join the world champion Boston Celtics. The 2020 Celtics and world champions, took down the Old man Warriors in 7 games.  It's our first championship since the Garnett Pierce era and he decides to join the Celtics Ala Kevin Garnett except as a free agent.

[dang] that pesky salary cap, which we will likely still be over at that time after resigning smart to an overpriced deal.

The Celtics are committed to winning. I don't see luxury tax implications as a limitation for this particular franchise, esp if other teams are paying it.

Luxury Tax =/= Salary Cap

It doesn't matter how "committed to winning" ownership is, or how willing to pay the tax they are, you can't sign a player without cap room (or an exception).  In 2020 we'll likely have $65-70 million between Irving and Hayward, plus Brown as an RFA and Smart on whatever his next contract is.  There won't be enough money to sign AD

The possibility of trading for AD was not addressed at all in my post or the posts I was responding to. You responded to my post as if I had said that trading for him was impossible, but I didn't. That would be where any "confusion" stems from
I'm bitter.