Author Topic: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade  (Read 4260 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #90 on: September 12, 2017, 05:01:28 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • NCE
  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24686
  • Tommy Points: 1838
Quote
The real question is "Are we good enough to win a championship?".

SPOILER: no

Are we closer

SPOILER:   Yes

TP

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #91 on: September 12, 2017, 07:36:59 PM »

Offline jambr380

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6549
  • Tommy Points: 816
The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition

It could just be me, but it seems like Celtics fans were all "Isaiah's fine" pre-trade, and "He's toast" post-trade. ;)

Not untrue.

But, during trade negotiations, we also went from thinking IT would be available for the start of the season to possibly not playing until March (or even longer!).

I think all of us are thankful for what IT has done for the franchise the last couple of years, but many are also happy we have a younger, (hopefully) healthier version of his best [season] in Kyrie for the next 7+ years. The BKN pick is a tough pill to swallow, but if IT turns out to not even be an asset, then I think we made out pretty well.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 08:40:23 PM by jambr380 »

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #92 on: September 12, 2017, 08:14:17 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3810
  • Tommy Points: 391
The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition

It could just be me, but it seems like Celtics fans were all "Isaiah's fine" pre-trade, and "He's toast" post-trade. ;)

Not untrue.

But, during trade negotiations, we also went from thinking IT would be available for the start of the season to possibly not playing until March (or even longer!).

I think all of us are thankful for what IT has done for the franchise the last couple of years, but many are also happy we have a younger, (hopefully) healthier version of his best [season] in Kyrie for the next 7+ years. The BKN pick is a tough pill to swallow, but if turns out to not even be an asset, then I think we made out pretty well.

TP.  Plus, the fact that Celtics fans "were all "Isaiah's fine" pre-trade, and "He's toast" post-trade" is more of just proof that Danny is a great GM.  Most other FOs would have had a leak

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #93 on: September 12, 2017, 08:20:58 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5497
  • Tommy Points: 1190
The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition

It could just be me, but it seems like Celtics fans were all "Isaiah's fine" pre-trade, and "He's toast" post-trade. ;)

Not untrue.

But, during trade negotiations, we also went from thinking IT would be available for the start of the season to possibly not playing until March (or even longer!).

I think all of us are thankful for what IT has done for the franchise the last couple of years, but many are also happy we have a younger, (hopefully) healthier version of his best [season] in Kyrie for the next 7+ years. The BKN pick is a tough pill to swallow, but if turns out to not even be an asset, then I think we made out pretty well.

TP.  Plus, the fact that Celtics fans "were all "Isaiah's fine" pre-trade, and "He's toast" post-trade" is more of just proof that Danny is a great GM.  Most other FOs would have had a leak

Or, respectfully, it's just a collective cognitive dissonance.  If your GM can do no wrong, it's pretty easy to shape your perspective to align with his decisions.  I imagine quite a few Celtics fans fall into this camp.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #94 on: September 12, 2017, 08:57:01 PM »

Offline mr. dee

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4149
  • Tommy Points: 330
The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition

It could just be me, but it seems like Celtics fans were all "Isaiah's fine" pre-trade, and "He's toast" post-trade. ;)

Not untrue.

But, during trade negotiations, we also went from thinking IT would be available for the start of the season to possibly not playing until March (or even longer!).

I think all of us are thankful for what IT has done for the franchise the last couple of years, but many are also happy we have a younger, (hopefully) healthier version of his best [season] in Kyrie for the next 7+ years. The BKN pick is a tough pill to swallow, but if turns out to not even be an asset, then I think we made out pretty well.

TP.  Plus, the fact that Celtics fans "were all "Isaiah's fine" pre-trade, and "He's toast" post-trade" is more of just proof that Danny is a great GM.  Most other FOs would have had a leak

Or, respectfully, it's just a collective cognitive dissonance.  If your GM can do no wrong, it's pretty easy to shape your perspective to align with his decisions.  I imagine quite a few Celtics fans fall into this camp.

Prior to trade, sources are telling that Isaiah will be able to play earlier this year. But once the deal was done, Cavs asked for a compensation because they predicted he will be out maybe until the all-star break which means the injury might be more serious than we initially thought.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #95 on: September 12, 2017, 09:04:41 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5497
  • Tommy Points: 1190
The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition

It could just be me, but it seems like Celtics fans were all "Isaiah's fine" pre-trade, and "He's toast" post-trade. ;)

Not untrue.

But, during trade negotiations, we also went from thinking IT would be available for the start of the season to possibly not playing until March (or even longer!).

I think all of us are thankful for what IT has done for the franchise the last couple of years, but many are also happy we have a younger, (hopefully) healthier version of his best [season] in Kyrie for the next 7+ years. The BKN pick is a tough pill to swallow, but if turns out to not even be an asset, then I think we made out pretty well.

TP.  Plus, the fact that Celtics fans "were all "Isaiah's fine" pre-trade, and "He's toast" post-trade" is more of just proof that Danny is a great GM.  Most other FOs would have had a leak

Or, respectfully, it's just a collective cognitive dissonance.  If your GM can do no wrong, it's pretty easy to shape your perspective to align with his decisions.  I imagine quite a few Celtics fans fall into this camp.

Prior to trade, sources are telling that Isaiah will be able to play earlier this year. But once the deal was done, Cavs asked for a compensation because they predicted he will be out maybe until the all-star break which means the injury might be more serious than we initially thought.

Yeah, it's certainly possible.  But, I think it's also possible that CLE was negotiating to squeeze more assets out of the BOS, and in that case, his medical status may or may not have had anything to do with it. 
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #96 on: September 12, 2017, 09:16:58 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1931
  • Tommy Points: 179
  • "Smile for the camera, Shareef!"
It really doesn't matter who "won" the trade. Success is measured individually and in comparison to expectations.

The real question is "Are we good enough to win a championship?".

SPOILER: no

If you measure the success of trades based on whether it makes you a true contender, you're going to be disappointed 99% of the time. We were never one move away from being as good as Golden State, which is the same situation almost all the teams in the league find themselves right now. Golden State has raised the bar so high that teams with three stars aren't even competitive with them. That's not a typical situation when you look at history and what it usually takes talent-wise to have a shot at a title.

Ainge basically kicked the can down the road slightly while still making the team better for this season so they will still be competitive in case something unexpected happens (a star becomes available, injuries to other teams, etc.).
Yo pretty boy. I looked up basketball player in the dictionary and it said 'Not you!'

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #97 on: September 12, 2017, 11:08:49 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5479
  • Tommy Points: 419
  • On To Banner 18!
Quote
The real question is "Are we good enough to win a championship?".

SPOILER: no

Are we closer

SPOILER:   Yes



We're about the same. We were 1 star away from legitimately competing for Banner 18 before the trade and we are still 1 star away after the trade. Plus Kyrie is going to have to do a ton to replicate what Isaiah did for us last season (including distributing the ball better and limiting turnovers).

I'm rooting for Irving to take that leap with CBS as his coach (leap to the likes of Harden/Westbrook, even Curry), but I do have some doubts.

Plus we overpayed by including Nets Pick and Zizic (who many experts said would have been Top-10 in the most previous Draft 3 months ago).

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #98 on: September 12, 2017, 11:09:17 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3938
  • Tommy Points: 269
The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition

It could just be me, but it seems like Celtics fans were all "Isaiah's fine" pre-trade, and "He's toast" post-trade. ;)
I don't think I gave much thought at all about his health.  I guess I wasn't really paying attention.  But even if healthy, there was certainly a healthy debate about paying IT max money long term.  I certainly was not convinced about paying him.  I have no such doubts about paying kyrie.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #99 on: September 13, 2017, 06:27:25 AM »

Offline Casperian

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3389
  • Tommy Points: 527
It really doesn't matter who "won" the trade. Success is measured individually and in comparison to expectations.

The real question is "Are we good enough to win a championship?".

SPOILER: no

If you measure the success of trades based on whether it makes you a true contender, you're going to be disappointed 99% of the time. We were never one move away from being as good as Golden State, which is the same situation almost all the teams in the league find themselves right now. Golden State has raised the bar so high that teams with three stars aren't even competitive with them. That's not a typical situation when you look at history and what it usually takes talent-wise to have a shot at a title.

Ainge basically kicked the can down the road slightly while still making the team better for this season so they will still be competitive in case something unexpected happens (a star becomes available, injuries to other teams, etc.).

Oh, excuse me, but if you finished last season with the best record in the east, trade away your all-star PG, hold the #1 pick in a supposedly loaded draft, and invest another pick (potential value: sky high, estimated value: sky high, real value: TBD), then yes, I expect you to be a contender.

Losing to the Cavs in the ECF again, or getting swept by whoever comes out of the west is 100%, definitely, unequivocally not a success, it's a failure of the highest magnitude.

Fingers crossed, eh?

"In Danny we trust" is so 2016.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #100 on: September 13, 2017, 08:02:10 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14469
  • Tommy Points: 904
It is too early to tell until we see the season unfold.

All this talk is nothing once the games starts then we can see.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #101 on: September 13, 2017, 08:51:46 AM »

Offline smokeablount

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1124
  • Tommy Points: 56
It really doesn't matter who "won" the trade. Success is measured individually and in comparison to expectations.

The real question is "Are we good enough to win a championship?".

SPOILER: no

If you measure the success of trades based on whether it makes you a true contender, you're going to be disappointed 99% of the time. We were never one move away from being as good as Golden State, which is the same situation almost all the teams in the league find themselves right now. Golden State has raised the bar so high that teams with three stars aren't even competitive with them. That's not a typical situation when you look at history and what it usually takes talent-wise to have a shot at a title.

Ainge basically kicked the can down the road slightly while still making the team better for this season so they will still be competitive in case something unexpected happens (a star becomes available, injuries to other teams, etc.).

That's an astute point, because this poster does seem disappointed 99% of the time.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #102 on: September 13, 2017, 09:17:38 AM »

Offline smokeablount

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1124
  • Tommy Points: 56
It really doesn't matter who "won" the trade. Success is measured individually and in comparison to expectations.

The real question is "Are we good enough to win a championship?".

SPOILER: no

If you measure the success of trades based on whether it makes you a true contender, you're going to be disappointed 99% of the time. We were never one move away from being as good as Golden State, which is the same situation almost all the teams in the league find themselves right now. Golden State has raised the bar so high that teams with three stars aren't even competitive with them. That's not a typical situation when you look at history and what it usually takes talent-wise to have a shot at a title.

Ainge basically kicked the can down the road slightly while still making the team better for this season so they will still be competitive in case something unexpected happens (a star becomes available, injuries to other teams, etc.).

Oh, excuse me, but if you finished last season with the best record in the east, trade away your all-star PG, hold the #1 pick in a supposedly loaded draft, and invest another pick (potential value: sky high, estimated value: sky high, real value: TBD), then yes, I expect you to be a contender.

Losing to the Cavs in the ECF again, or getting swept by whoever comes out of the west is 100%, definitely, unequivocally not a success, it's a failure of the highest magnitude.

Fingers crossed, eh?

Really? So what one move would you have made to make us a contender if you were GM?
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish