Author Topic: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade  (Read 5501 times)

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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2017, 10:21:40 AM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

I take it you don't like the deal?   ;)

Look I wasn't sure if I liked the trade when it first got announced but now that the news of IT's hip got out the deal made sense.

IT4 may never return to his former level.  Kyrie is a 4 time all-star and he's only 25.  He can help us compete right now and into the future.

That Nets pick is a lottery ticket but sometimes you don't hit the lottery.  As long as the Lakers pick conveys we are in good shape there.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2017, 11:30:05 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

We are talking about the team that drafted Anthony Bennett right?  Because IT could be an All Star if he returns to form, but that is a big if?   Crowder is not nor will he be an All Star.   A lot of rookies bust out or don't make the team.   

Once LeBron leaves all the attention CLE players get will dwindle and he will do what he can to poison the owner to other players.   Now he may not leave but he may well.

Quote
And will Kyrie be an all star for the celtics if he never makes it? The simple fact is that since IT has been an all star for the past 2 years, he is an all star. Until he misses one, he will be an all star, just like all the other all stars.

Do you think that he will make the All Star Game if he is injured and I mean IT here?   I say no, he does not have the league wide star power across the country.   Here, in Boston, yes he will get votes.   I doubt he gets many in CLE, who will want results.   Nationwide, I doubt it.

So I think much depends on if IT plays and if he can play like himself or a shell of himself.  I am not wishing ill on the guy.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2017, 11:56:39 AM »

Offline bellerephon

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I'm not particularly interested in whether or not a guy makes an all star team or not. It only matters how he plays. IT could play very well and fail to make the all star team if some other guards have great seasons. I would not consider that a failure on his part.

I think of the situation this way, it is fair to assume that Kyrie will play at a high level. He has been consistently excellent as an offensive player (and bad defensively) and I see no compelling reason to think that will change. He is also younger, taller, and has a better contract situation than IT.

IT played at that very high level last year, but has not done so consistently. It is of course true that teams were reluctant to give him the opportunity he needed to excel, and once he got a chance in Boston he took it. It is a fact, however, that he has not played at the highest level throughout his career. I'm not saying he was trash, he was good his first full year in Boston and he played well his last year in Sac, but he has only reached Kyrie's level once in his career. Couple that with the injury and there is legitimate reason to wonder how good he will be going forward. If healthy I'm sure he will play well, but how well we don't know.

The pick could end up being a great player, or it could end up being a bust, there's too much uncertainly surrounding that to know for sure. The Cavs have added pieces that could potentially have much more value than Kyrie, but could also leave them will not much.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2017, 03:10:55 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition
But is he an all star though?

What matters for the trade (and the thread) is the future, not technical terms. We all know about his career so far.

In fact, he HAS BEEN an all-star. Maybe he comes back in November in good shape and is an all-star again or maybe he never plays a minute with the Cavaliers because he misses the season and signs with another team. Will he be an all-star for the Cavs if he never plays for them?

Anyway, reading the last posts it's you against the world. And in those cases the wrong part is usually the YOU, and not the rest of the people. So...that's it.
And will Kyrie be an all star for the celtics if he never makes it? The simple fact is that since IT has been an all star for the past 2 years, he is an all star. Until he misses one, he will be an all star, just like all the other all stars.

And, no just since other people or posters don’t agree with you doesn’t mean you’re wrong or “that’s it”. This isn’t an oppressive society or forum.

It's not oppression, it's just common sense.
Common sense would be articulating your argument and using some facts. Telling people they’re wrong because you and others say so is just being a bully.
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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2017, 04:05:05 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition
But is he an all star though?

What matters for the trade (and the thread) is the future, not technical terms. We all know about his career so far.

In fact, he HAS BEEN an all-star. Maybe he comes back in November in good shape and is an all-star again or maybe he never plays a minute with the Cavaliers because he misses the season and signs with another team. Will he be an all-star for the Cavs if he never plays for them?

Anyway, reading the last posts it's you against the world. And in those cases the wrong part is usually the YOU, and not the rest of the people. So...that's it.
And will Kyrie be an all star for the celtics if he never makes it? The simple fact is that since IT has been an all star for the past 2 years, he is an all star. Until he misses one, he will be an all star, just like all the other all stars.

And, no just since other people or posters don’t agree with you doesn’t mean you’re wrong or “that’s it”. This isn’t an oppressive society or forum.

It's not oppression, it's just common sense.
Common sense would be articulating your argument and using some facts. Telling people they’re wrong because you and others say so is just being a bully.

You should have read like 15 arguments (mine and from others) well articulated. A lost cause.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2017, 06:49:15 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition
But is he an all star though?

What matters for the trade (and the thread) is the future, not technical terms. We all know about his career so far.

In fact, he HAS BEEN an all-star. Maybe he comes back in November in good shape and is an all-star again or maybe he never plays a minute with the Cavaliers because he misses the season and signs with another team. Will he be an all-star for the Cavs if he never plays for them?

Anyway, reading the last posts it's you against the world. And in those cases the wrong part is usually the YOU, and not the rest of the people. So...that's it.
And will Kyrie be an all star for the celtics if he never makes it? The simple fact is that since IT has been an all star for the past 2 years, he is an all star. Until he misses one, he will be an all star, just like all the other all stars.

And, no just since other people or posters don’t agree with you doesn’t mean you’re wrong or “that’s it”. This isn’t an oppressive society or forum.

It's not oppression, it's just common sense.
Common sense would be articulating your argument and using some facts. Telling people they’re wrong because you and others say so is just being a bully.

You should have read like 15 arguments (mine and from others) well articulated. A lost cause.
Weird, because I only count 6 posters who responded to my post saying IT isn’t an all star, and some who responded thinking he is. So where’d you get 15? Probably just another made up statement or statistic on your end. It’s pretty difficult to argue with someone who clearly doesn’t know the difference between fact and fiction lol!
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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2017, 08:37:05 AM »

Offline Chris22

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We won the trade because we got a player who is younger and better.

I really don't understand the logic that the team that gets the best player automatically wins the trade (any trade for that matter). And I've heard it from NUMEROUS people and media reporters/experts too.

So if say, the Pelicans traded Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, most of their bench and 2 future 1st rounders for Lebron James, does that mean Pelicans win the trade because they got back the best player in the entire thing?

It's not like the Celtics JUST gave up Isaiah in the trade (who is injured, yes, but good chance he'll return when it matters - 2nd half and playoffs).

Strawman argument.
The Celtics won the trade, big time.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2017, 09:04:59 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I'm not particularly interested in whether or not a guy makes an all star team or not. It only matters how he plays. IT could play very well and fail to make the all star team if some other guards have great seasons. I would not consider that a failure on his part.

I think of the situation this way, it is fair to assume that Kyrie will play at a high level. He has been consistently excellent as an offensive player (and bad defensively) and I see no compelling reason to think that will change. He is also younger, taller, and has a better contract situation than IT.

IT played at that very high level last year, but has not done so consistently. It is of course true that teams were reluctant to give him the opportunity he needed to excel, and once he got a chance in Boston he took it. It is a fact, however, that he has not played at the highest level throughout his career. I'm not saying he was trash, he was good his first full year in Boston and he played well his last year in Sac, but he has only reached Kyrie's level once in his career. Couple that with the injury and there is legitimate reason to wonder how good he will be going forward. If healthy I'm sure he will play well, but how well we don't know.

The pick could end up being a great player, or it could end up being a bust, there's too much uncertainly surrounding that to know for sure. The Cavs have added pieces that could potentially have much more value than Kyrie, but could also leave them will not much.

I'm not sure there has been that much separation between the two.

According to basketball-reference, guess which player - out of every player in NBA history - Kyrie's career tracks most closely with? Yep: Isaiah Thomas.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html


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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2017, 10:05:47 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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We would suck without IT this year. This is a win for us. KI will stay a celtic just like KG.
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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2017, 10:07:56 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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We would suck without IT this year. This is a win for us. KI will stay a celtic just like KG.

This regular season doesn't mean too much to me.  Moreso, it's about whether IT is himself in the playoffs and beyond.


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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2017, 11:00:56 AM »

Offline td450

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The C's made the trade to offload major risks. The Cav's took on major risks because that gave them the highest potential value.

No one knows who won the trade until the risks play out. We may very well not know for a few years.

The worst case scenario for Cleveland isn't IT being unable to play. The worst case scenario is that Brooklyn rises to mediocrity and the pick ends up being outside the top 10. IT plays pretty well, but not well enough for the Cav's to win the title. LeBron surveys his chances and decides to leave. The Cav's sign IT and then a year later, the hip deteriorates again. That is the worst case possible for the Cav's, and it is gruesome. 

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2017, 12:58:43 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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We would suck without IT this year. This is a win for us. KI will stay a celtic just like KG.

This regular season doesn't mean too much to me.  Moreso, it's about whether IT is himself in the playoffs and beyond.

If the regular season didn't mean much to you, you would probably be a lot happier switching IT for Kyrie. Kyrie is a stone cold postseason killer and aside from this one past year, IT doesn't have that resume.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 01:19:23 PM by smokeablount »
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2017, 01:25:10 PM »

Offline The One

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Why the did Celtics win the Kyrie Irving trade?

Because in Brad's system (similar to GSW), he is going to make the Curry leap!

How does 28 ppg and 8 apg sound?





Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2017, 01:29:35 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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We would suck without IT this year. This is a win for us. KI will stay a celtic just like KG.

This regular season doesn't mean too much to me.  Moreso, it's about whether IT is himself in the playoffs and beyond.

If the regular season didn't mean much to you, you would probably be a lot happier switching IT for Kyrie. Kyrie is a stone cold postseason killer and aside from this one past year, IT doesn't have that resume.

We'll see? IT has proven he can be the best player on a ECF team. We'll see if Kyrie looks better or worse without Lebron drawing defensive focus. I suspect it's easier to play well when teams don't make stopping you the entire focus of their defensive game plan, but time will tell.



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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2017, 01:37:25 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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We would suck without IT this year. This is a win for us. KI will stay a celtic just like KG.

This regular season doesn't mean too much to me.  Moreso, it's about whether IT is himself in the playoffs and beyond.

If the regular season didn't mean much to you, you would probably be a lot happier switching IT for Kyrie. Kyrie is a stone cold postseason killer and aside from this one past year, IT doesn't have that resume.

We'll see? IT has proven he can be the best player on a ECF team. We'll see if Kyrie looks better or worse without Lebron drawing defensive focus. I suspect it's easier to play well when teams don't make stopping you the entire focus of their defensive game plan, but time will tell.

IT has proven that, but Kyrie has proven he can shred that ECF team, which only won in the ECF when IT wasn't playing, as well as put the nail in the coffin of the winningest team ever. I'm also not sure every team game plans to just stop Lebron. He clearly helped Kyrie, but I'd imagine that some teams are content for LBJ to get his and to focus on stopping "the other guys."

I agree that time will tell, but without seeing Kyrie in our offense it's a lot of speculation either way, and basing ITs argument on a single dominant season when he was 28 and before a major injury seems shaky.
Give us this pick, Almighty Red
And forgive us our tanking
As we forgive those who tanked against us
And lead us not into the lottery
But deliver us from losing

-Sexyscottish