Author Topic: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade  (Read 4755 times)

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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2017, 09:05:26 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition
But is he an all star though?

What matters for the trade (and the thread) is the future, not technical terms. We all know about his career so far.

In fact, he HAS BEEN an all-star. Maybe he comes back in November in good shape and is an all-star again or maybe he never plays a minute with the Cavaliers because he misses the season and signs with another team. Will he be an all-star for the Cavs if he never plays for them?

Anyway, reading the last posts it's you against the world. And in those cases the wrong part is usually the YOU, and not the rest of the people. So...that's it.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2017, 09:15:41 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition
But is he an all star though?

What matters for the trade (and the thread) is the future, not technical terms. We all know about his career so far.

In fact, he HAS BEEN an all-star. Maybe he comes back in November in good shape and is an all-star again or maybe he never plays a minute with the Cavaliers because he misses the season and signs with another team. Will he be an all-star for the Cavs if he never plays for them?

Anyway, reading the last posts it's you against the world. And in those cases the wrong part is usually the YOU, and not the rest of the people. So...that's it.

you can take that up with Tupac...
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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2017, 09:24:48 PM »

Online nickagneta

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IT will be as much an All Star for Cleveland next year as Kyrie will be an NBA champion for the Celtics next year. Take that for what it is worth.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2017, 09:32:15 PM »

Offline makaveli

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your hole post is "based" on predictions:

1.
"Yes Isaiah Thomas was an all-star but I think it's very likely he will never perform again like he performed this year."

nobody knows when will he be back or how good will he be. So this can be in range from he will be back by allstar game and cavs will win a chip, to he will be back at some point of this season and they will have to shut him down.

2.
"Zizic because I think he is going to end up being a rebounding machine."

Zizic has done nothing but disappoint so far. His "high" motor was not that high at all, but rebounding was fair. He will most likely be a Tristan Thopson off the bench for the Cavs, best case scenario.

3.
"Last but not least is the 2018 Nets pick. Many predictions are predicting the Nets to finish with a better record than Atlanta, Chicago, Indiana, Phoenix, New York, Los Angeles(not sure I agree on this) and possibly Sacremento"

Don't get me started on the pick...worst team doesn't mean they will get #1 pick, and even if they do, no way of telling what type of a player you get in return, especially when that "stud" would be playing on a championship level team and his development would be seriously slowed down

4.
Kyrie Irving
Who knows what will he and Gordon bring to the table

Bottom line: i do think we won the trade as well, only because the fact that Kyrie is the best player and under contract + the fact that we made a lot of space for our young guys to develop.

Everything else, only time will tell
So I guess you hate Tatum and Brown then?
why would you say that.
Isn't it a fact that Brown would have developed much faster if he had more minutes, on a orlando or whatever team?
Like I said, the trade made a big gap to fill for Brown and Tatum, so there is plenty of playing time, even a starting job for them if they step up.
With the trade, a place has opened up even for the next years pick if we get a decent PF / C , which the next draft is full with(no expert about draft)

quick edit: you can say the same for marus smart as well, so i expect him to excel
Lol because you said, and I quote, "especially when that "stud" would be playing on a championship level team and his development would be seriously slowed down”. You put stud in parentheses and think that top prospects on top teams have their development seriously slowed down. So Brown and Tautum being top prospects on top teams you must think their development is being seriously slowed down.

And no, it is most certainly not a fact that Brown would develop much more faster on a crappy team like Orlando than here. He would shoot more and get more touches, but playing his role in a great system here lets the game come to him. He can learn how to play defense, move the ball, fit into the offense. And he can let the scoring come naturally and not have to rush it.
i guess it's cool to be in a winning environment, but IMHO minutes are what matter the most.
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2017, 09:33:03 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.

Actually former All Star. He wont be one this year unless he comes back by late Nov and tears it up.

I don't think we can really say who won this one yet We haven't seen what Irving can do in Stevens system. IT, who knows if he will be back to full strength, and if it's arthritis and cartilage damages like some reports have said, he's going to struggle to get even close to what he was. Which sucks, because the dude deserved a big pay day.

We don't even know what the pick is. I remember people posting videos of Randle in highschool and everyone drooling over him. Now, meh. Smart if he gets a consistent out side shot, may have the better career. Differently the better attitude. This is why I'm not super excited yet about these bigs. In highscholl they SHOULD be able to dominate. They have 6 inches or more on most of the other teams players. Last season everyone wanted Simmons, but I was in the Brown camp. Saw his measurements and looked him up. Watched a couple video's were Browns team went up against a Simmons team, and Brown just looked way better.

Now we haven't really seen Simmons play, but Brown has looked really good, and some times you could see that "IT" factor. Just needs to put it together. Tatum the same thing. I Liked Ball, until I saw he didn't shoot well inside the 3pt line, and once the #1 pick came up, started to look at Fultz. I liked him, but some thing was off about him. Something missing mentally. But he's young and could put it all together. But when Dicky V said Boston was going to take Tatum, looked into him more, and he had that PP vib about him. Again, he's got to put it together, but trainer Drew Hanlen who trained Beal and David Lee said that Tatum was one of the most ready for the NBA with his skill set.

And also, the CAVS are the team that picked Anthony Bennett #1. :)

This trade really could go either way. There is a small part of me that wants to see IT return to form this year, and with Crowder win the whole thing....But after that F the CAVS and hope the never win again. :)
See post directly above.

I did, and thats why the response "former" All Star.

IT was an All Star last two years, and IF healthy, you could say the CAVS were getting one. But since he may not be the same as he was( again if reports are true for worse case) the CAVS will not be getting an All Star but former All Star.

It's like signing Dwight Howard and saying he's an All Star. Hasn't been one since 2014, and plays nothing like an All Star now. It drives me nuts when people say Horford is an All Star. Nope former.

I see "All Stars" as guys who have made it for the last few years and if they don't get injured have several more to go with out doubt. Like Curry, he'll be one for the next 5+ years if he stays healthy. Even a Healthy IT has one ore two more left.

I mean BJ Armstrong was an All Star, but I wouldn't put him under the "All Star" caliber player category.
And like I said, that means Kyrie is a “former” all star. And PG13. And CP3. And Jimmy Butler. Because they have done just as much for their new teams as IT has.

It’s not at all like Dwight Howard. Like you said, Dwight hasn’t been an all star for years. IT played at the most recent all star game. And the one before that. If he doesn’t make the all star team this year then you can say he’s not an all star anymore, but until that actually happens, he is just as much an all star as anyone else.

Even for this board, this is hair-splitting of epic proportions.


Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2017, 11:04:50 PM »

Offline LilRip

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IMO, the fate of the nets pick will determine whether we win the Kyrie trade or not. Kyrie will still get better. He's not yet even in his prime.
- LilRip

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2017, 11:07:40 PM »

Online jambr380

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IT will be as much an All Star for Cleveland next year as Kyrie will be an NBA champion for the Celtics next year. Take that for what it is worth.

I don't think anybody is thinking the Cs will win the championship next year. Kyrie is 25 - he is here for the now and future. The trade was basically the BKN 18 for Kyrie. IT playing sparingly and then moving on to another team makes him barely more than salary filler unless he is able to come back strong for the playoffs and helps lead the Cavs to a championship.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2017, 12:34:24 AM »

Offline jdz101

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition

This is a big issue for me. Some torn labrums can take up to a year to get over and even then you're not the same after. That is with surgery and IT isn't going for surgery.


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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2017, 01:31:35 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition

This is a big issue for me. Some torn labrums can take up to a year to get over and even then you're not the same after. That is with surgery and IT isn't going for surgery.
IT also has arthritis and cartilage loss making his situation more complicated http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2732177-isaiah-thomas-hip-injury-reportedly-more-than-just-torn-labrum

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2017, 02:20:49 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition
But is he an all star though?

What matters for the trade (and the thread) is the future, not technical terms. We all know about his career so far.

In fact, he HAS BEEN an all-star. Maybe he comes back in November in good shape and is an all-star again or maybe he never plays a minute with the Cavaliers because he misses the season and signs with another team. Will he be an all-star for the Cavs if he never plays for them?

Anyway, reading the last posts it's you against the world. And in those cases the wrong part is usually the YOU, and not the rest of the people. So...that's it.
And will Kyrie be an all star for the celtics if he never makes it? The simple fact is that since IT has been an all star for the past 2 years, he is an all star. Until he misses one, he will be an all star, just like all the other all stars.

And, no just since other people or posters don’t agree with you doesn’t mean you’re wrong or “that’s it”. This isn’t an oppressive society or forum.
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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2017, 05:31:09 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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Zizic has not played a NBA game is  so young and his outside game doesn't exist at this time
At his age and experience he will be foul prone
Isaiah is out, the draft is next year and crowder shot well but was taking minutes from hayward ,tatum,brown-he might have instigated some problems he couldn't win-
semi can be as good as crowder shoots the three,better lateral,more vertical a has work ethic and high character-did i forget defensive DNA
This trade favors Boston in near and intermediate time span

If iIT had stayed and was hurt most of season-the celts would certainly be worse off ,if he comes back damaged and asked for brinks truck next season -that was it

We got a superstar with playoff experience that has chemistry with hayward,younger and just set free.Now with Brad as his coach after 3 Lebron puppets
-A four times all star, playoff finals three times-clutch,best ball handler in league and able to jell with a whole new cast of players

Wait what, @rollie didn't you start the "KILL THE DEAL" thread like a few weeks ago?  :P

Rollie always does that. Every C's player is always the answer (see Jerebko, Green, Zizic) until they're no longer on the team and someone else becomes the new answer (see Theis, Semi, Morris). Those green glasses are extra think. I do agree with him that we won the trade. However, he did want to kill the trade AFTER the Cavs had issues with Thomas' physical.

What did i say about jerebko -that i thought his 3 point shooting would improve after a summer with a court in his house
Green i was enamored with his athleticism and transition play as it was paired with isaiah with suns-I called green a stiletto and that as an opponent Brad feared him-a streaky,offensive weapon in brads hands
.I had little to say about Theis
 Zizic,  I only defended or thought something was wrong in Salt lake like long season,jet lag and elevation-he looked so slow
 I did give game results during his season
 I think i quoted Blatts story on his toughness and determination,relentless on boards and he had good form on foul shots.He set good screens and had good motor but he only made one mid range'good form.
 I have NEVER thought of Theis or Zizic as an answer
 
Morris was a good addition and brings some grit

-Nader i followed from summer league and and watched his games for Red Claws -he was much better than RJ and James but now is really at back end of loaded position

Semi shoots the three better and plays better defense  and a crowder replacement.

Nader was d league rookie of the year and shot the three much better in first half season until forced into point forward position
Nader would have helped last season off bench but is buried now-
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 06:02:14 AM by rollie mass »

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2017, 06:28:32 AM »

Offline LGC88

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Unless Irving develop into a MVP type of player like Curry, Harden in the future, I don't see how the Celtics won that trade.
Obviously Danny (and maybe Brad) think so. I still trust Danny even though I don't understand how a player that demand to be traded can have a so good return.

People are still sleeping on IT, that's unbelievable. The little guy has no break and will have to prove his entire life his worth. That's very sad.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2017, 06:58:08 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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It is too early to tell.   I think we can't really gauge who won it until we see what the draft pick was folks. 

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2017, 07:33:34 AM »

Offline 2short

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Is IT going to stay with the cavs at a fair value or look for big paycheck, also obviously is he going to come back to all star level
If he stays with them for HALF season rental then check mark to Celtics

Crowder becomes a sub, maybe good for him, unknown.  On a great contract
Zizic unless he really improves I don't see him getting much pt at all this year.  So he and pick are big ifs
Lebron leaves, IT leaves, draft pick doesn't pan out its the cavs of old



Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2017, 07:41:02 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition
But is he an all star though?

What matters for the trade (and the thread) is the future, not technical terms. We all know about his career so far.

In fact, he HAS BEEN an all-star. Maybe he comes back in November in good shape and is an all-star again or maybe he never plays a minute with the Cavaliers because he misses the season and signs with another team. Will he be an all-star for the Cavs if he never plays for them?

Anyway, reading the last posts it's you against the world. And in those cases the wrong part is usually the YOU, and not the rest of the people. So...that's it.
And will Kyrie be an all star for the celtics if he never makes it? The simple fact is that since IT has been an all star for the past 2 years, he is an all star. Until he misses one, he will be an all star, just like all the other all stars.

And, no just since other people or posters don’t agree with you doesn’t mean you’re wrong or “that’s it”. This isn’t an oppressive society or forum.

It's not oppression, it's just common sense.