Author Topic: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade  (Read 4259 times)

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Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« on: September 09, 2017, 11:49:26 AM »

Offline dweeks7

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The reason Boston won the Kyrie Irving trade is they got an all-star player and Cleveland did not get an all-star player. Yes Isaiah Thomas was an all-star but I think it's very likely he will never perform again like he performed this year. Multiple reports are saying his hip injury is much more serious than initially reported. I hate this for Isaiah by the way.

Now I move on to Crowder and Zizic. Both good players but not all-stars. Besides the 2018 Nets pick I would argue the biggest loss for Boston is Zizic because I think he is going to end up being a rebounding machine. Boston still got the best player for now and the future.

Last but not least is the 2018 Nets pick. Many predictions are predicting the Nets to finish with a better record than Atlanta, Chicago, Indiana, Phoenix, New York, Los Angeles(not sure I agree on this) and possibly Sacremento. Assuming the Nets finish 5th there are only 2 potential franchise players as it looks right now. The Cavaliers have a shot at a very good player picking 5th but there is no guarantee that player will be an all-star player and more than likely won't be.

Based on this I would say the Celtics won the trade but not by much. People saying Cleveland won the trade probably have a good argument but only time will tell and I think the future will prove the Celtics won the trade.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2017, 12:11:58 PM »

Online makaveli

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your hole post is "based" on predictions:

1.
"Yes Isaiah Thomas was an all-star but I think it's very likely he will never perform again like he performed this year."

nobody knows when will he be back or how good will he be. So this can be in range from he will be back by allstar game and cavs will win a chip, to he will be back at some point of this season and they will have to shut him down.

2.
"Zizic because I think he is going to end up being a rebounding machine."

Zizic has done nothing but disappoint so far. His "high" motor was not that high at all, but rebounding was fair. He will most likely be a Tristan Thopson off the bench for the Cavs, best case scenario.

3.
"Last but not least is the 2018 Nets pick. Many predictions are predicting the Nets to finish with a better record than Atlanta, Chicago, Indiana, Phoenix, New York, Los Angeles(not sure I agree on this) and possibly Sacremento"

Don't get me started on the pick...worst team doesn't mean they will get #1 pick, and even if they do, no way of telling what type of a player you get in return, especially when that "stud" would be playing on a championship level team and his development would be seriously slowed down

4.
Kyrie Irving
Who knows what will he and Gordon bring to the table

Bottom line: i do think we won the trade as well, only because the fact that Kyrie is the best player and under contract + the fact that we made a lot of space for our young guys to develop.

Everything else, only time will tell
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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2017, 12:24:55 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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your hole post is "based" on predictions:

1.
"Yes Isaiah Thomas was an all-star but I think it's very likely he will never perform again like he performed this year."

nobody knows when will he be back or how good will he be. So this can be in range from he will be back by allstar game and cavs will win a chip, to he will be back at some point of this season and they will have to shut him down.

2.
"Zizic because I think he is going to end up being a rebounding machine."

Zizic has done nothing but disappoint so far. His "high" motor was not that high at all, but rebounding was fair. He will most likely be a Tristan Thopson off the bench for the Cavs, best case scenario.

3.
"Last but not least is the 2018 Nets pick. Many predictions are predicting the Nets to finish with a better record than Atlanta, Chicago, Indiana, Phoenix, New York, Los Angeles(not sure I agree on this) and possibly Sacremento"

Don't get me started on the pick...worst team doesn't mean they will get #1 pick, and even if they do, no way of telling what type of a player you get in return, especially when that "stud" would be playing on a championship level team and his development would be seriously slowed down

4.
Kyrie Irving
Who knows what will he and Gordon bring to the table

Bottom line: i do think we won the trade as well, only because the fact that Kyrie is the best player and under contract + the fact that we made a lot of space for our young guys to develop.

Everything else, only time will tell
So I guess you hate Tatum and Brown then?
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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2017, 12:31:30 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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Zizic has not played a NBA game is  so young and his outside game doesn't exist at this time
At his age and experience he will be foul prone
Isaiah is out, the draft is next year and crowder shot well but was taking minutes from hayward ,tatum,brown-he might have instigated some problems he couldn't win-
semi can be as good as crowder shoots the three,better lateral,more vertical a has work ethic and high character-did i forget defensive DNA
This trade favors Boston in near and intermediate time span

If iIT had stayed and was hurt most of season-the celts would certainly be worse off ,if he comes back damaged and asked for brinks truck next season -that was it

We got a superstar with playoff experience that has chemistry with hayward,younger and just set free.Now with Brad as his coach after 3 Lebron puppets
-A four times all star, playoff finals three times-clutch,best ball handler in league and able to jell with a whole new cast of players
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 12:36:55 PM by rollie mass »

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 12:35:56 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.



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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2017, 12:36:51 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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your hole post is "based" on predictions:

1.
"Yes Isaiah Thomas was an all-star but I think it's very likely he will never perform again like he performed this year."

nobody knows when will he be back or how good will he be. So this can be in range from he will be back by allstar game and cavs will win a chip, to he will be back at some point of this season and they will have to shut him down.

2.
"Zizic because I think he is going to end up being a rebounding machine."

Zizic has done nothing but disappoint so far. His "high" motor was not that high at all, but rebounding was fair. He will most likely be a Tristan Thopson off the bench for the Cavs, best case scenario.

3.
"Last but not least is the 2018 Nets pick. Many predictions are predicting the Nets to finish with a better record than Atlanta, Chicago, Indiana, Phoenix, New York, Los Angeles(not sure I agree on this) and possibly Sacremento"

Don't get me started on the pick...worst team doesn't mean they will get #1 pick, and even if they do, no way of telling what type of a player you get in return, especially when that "stud" would be playing on a championship level team and his development would be seriously slowed down

4.
Kyrie Irving
Who knows what will he and Gordon bring to the table

Bottom line: i do think we won the trade as well, only because the fact that Kyrie is the best player and under contract + the fact that we made a lot of space for our young guys to develop.

Everything else, only time will tell
So I guess you hate Tatum and Brown then?
kind of a nitpick when he had many valid points

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2017, 12:40:02 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I found some recent over/under numbers for BKN:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2730296-las-vegas-sets-overunder-win-totals-for-all-nba-teams-warriors-at-675

This would put them in the 3rd slot.

I've looked at a few of these and I think it's fair to say they have moved from "clearly the worst" to "one of the worst 3-4."

Lots of uncertainty about these predictions however, as Brooklyn and Chicago have significant roster turnover, and PHO has all those young guys.

tl;dr: We can be confident that Brooklyn will be bad, but can't say much more than that.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2017, 12:42:14 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.
I don't think the cavs got even 1 all star. Post hip injury IT should look different. He still isn't running. can the pick be an all star? Maybe but not a sure thing. See: Anthony Bennett. Tristan Thompson

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2017, 12:44:27 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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your hole post is "based" on predictions:

1.
"Yes Isaiah Thomas was an all-star but I think it's very likely he will never perform again like he performed this year."

nobody knows when will he be back or how good will he be. So this can be in range from he will be back by allstar game and cavs will win a chip, to he will be back at some point of this season and they will have to shut him down.

2.
"Zizic because I think he is going to end up being a rebounding machine."

Zizic has done nothing but disappoint so far. His "high" motor was not that high at all, but rebounding was fair. He will most likely be a Tristan Thopson off the bench for the Cavs, best case scenario.

3.
"Last but not least is the 2018 Nets pick. Many predictions are predicting the Nets to finish with a better record than Atlanta, Chicago, Indiana, Phoenix, New York, Los Angeles(not sure I agree on this) and possibly Sacremento"

Don't get me started on the pick...worst team doesn't mean they will get #1 pick, and even if they do, no way of telling what type of a player you get in return, especially when that "stud" would be playing on a championship level team and his development would be seriously slowed down

4.
Kyrie Irving
Who knows what will he and Gordon bring to the table

Bottom line: i do think we won the trade as well, only because the fact that Kyrie is the best player and under contract + the fact that we made a lot of space for our young guys to develop.

Everything else, only time will tell
So I guess you hate Tatum and Brown then?
kind of a nitpick when he had many valid points
Actually not at all. The Brooklyn pick was a huge part of the trade, and if you’re under the notion that the pick wouldn’t have developed in Boston anyway since we’re too good, you probably don’t think Tatum and Brown will develop. Which would significantly hurt us in the future..
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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2017, 12:51:23 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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It's most likely going to take years before you can figure out who "won" this trade.


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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2017, 01:03:22 PM »

Offline nebist

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Bottom line is it comes down to the Nets pick.

It, Crowder, Zizic and a 1st rounder is a fair deal for Kyrie considering his contract/age/injury situation compared to Isaiah's.  However, IT, Crowder, Zizic, and a top 5 pick for Kyrie is an overpay based on what other stars have fetched.  I still think BRK will be extremely bad and likely deliver a top 5 pick, so it does seem like an overpay in the moment to me.  However, I'd be happy to be proven wrong.  If BRK does improve, and that pick is more in the 6-10 range, I'd be willing to admit I was wrong on the price point and would relinquish any 2nd guesses (even if that 6-10 players turns into a star).  I guess I'm saying the BRK pick would have to have been protected at the least 1-3 for me to feel comfortable making the trade.  Again, hopefully I'm too conservative there and Danny made a good gamble.  We'll see.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2017, 01:07:22 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Kyrie is a pretty sure thing, a safe bet. IT is definitely not a sure thing, with one rehab season left under contract. Draft picks are the opposite of safe bet.

I'd have to say this deal was close to a no-brainer for a team with Hayward, Horford, Brown, and Tatum.

For Cleveland, they were on the hot seat and had to deal, and got the return you should get for a star in a project (Zizic),  good pick, and player (Crowder), the second rounder, and the injured IT.  Nice for them. They might still compete now, and could have a couple future pieces with Zizic and the pick.

When everyone gets what they need, who wins?

They're still better on the boards and have veteran bench wings vs our youth. But it should be closer than last year.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2017, 01:10:46 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.

Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2017, 01:14:26 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
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Re: Why the Celtics won the Kyrie Irving trade
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2017, 01:18:14 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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The Celts got an all-star and the Cavs potentially got two all-stars.

And potentially none.
No, IT is an all star, thats a fact.
yet he isn't able to run and is rumored to have a degenerative hip condition