Author Topic: Report: IT hip injury more than just torn labrum; arthritis + loss of cartilage  (Read 3241 times)

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Offline Roy H.

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With someone like IT this is his first major injury ever and serious people in the media (not just posters here) are speculating that it is a very serious long term problem. When was the last time a player had one injury like that and everyone starting speculating it was a career ender when the guy was 28?

Who is speculating that?  And is there such thing as serious people in sports media? Isn't everything click bait?

It would be almost unprecedented for this to be a career-ending injury.  As the infamous ESPN article said, many, many guys with hip injuries treat it with rest, and nobody really knows about it. Then, there are players who have surgery. Almost all players returned to about the level they were pre-surgery; good players stayed good, and lousy players stayed lousy.



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Offline Phantom255x

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For God's sakes people.  None of you even knew he had a hip issue until he went out in the Cavs series.  He played half a season and 20 playoff games after tearing his labrum and was nearly the leading scorer in the NBA.

Stop with this nonsense.  Anyone over the age of 20 has OA in some of their joints and damage to the discs in their spine, and most of them have FAI as well - many of them even have *GASP* labral tears!  All these people (and many of you) are walking the earth completely ignorant of the fact that their bodies are exhibiting structural abnormalities and wear and tear.

IT will be fine.  This is the most drama I've ever seen over an injury that a guy has already proven he can play through without any rehab what-so-ever. 

Do you realize Russell Westbrook has played 2 more seasons than IT, and had THREE knee surgeries?  Do you realize he's missed a full season's worth of games in his career and is far more reliant on contact, athleticism, and getting to the rim to be successful than IT and no one ever questions the longevity of his career?

And yet IT missed one playoff series that the Celtics were clearly not winning after his sister died, his teeth were knocked out, and his hip was injured and everyone wants to say his career is over. 

I'm not surprised, this is what people do, they search for reasons to doubt IT and justify trading him.  His entire career no matter what he does people ALWAYS find reasons to doubt him.  He single-handedly ruined the Celtics rebuilding process by taking them from lottery contention to the Eastern Conference finals in two years and still people doubt him.   

You should all know better by now. 

Mark my words, the Cavs will be winning a Championship this season.         

Lol nope. I don't even think they'll make the Finals. He might hate himself doing it, but Brad is going to have a heyday exploiting that IT defensive mismatch in the ECF.

EDIT: By the way, is that you, IT? That's really the only rational explanation for such a wild overreaction to this thread.

So you're saying.. the Celtics are making the Finals?  :o

That would be nice but then we'd get absolutely stomped by Golden State (unless somehow we also acquired Porzingis or Davis at the deadline - long shot and unlikely).  :P

Offline Bucketgetter

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For God's sakes people.  None of you even knew he had a hip issue until he went out in the Cavs series.  He played half a season and 20 playoff games after tearing his labrum and was nearly the leading scorer in the NBA.

Stop with this nonsense.  Anyone over the age of 20 has OA in some of their joints and damage to the discs in their spine, and most of them have FAI as well - many of them even have *GASP* labral tears!  All these people (and many of you) are walking the earth completely ignorant of the fact that their bodies are exhibiting structural abnormalities and wear and tear.

IT will be fine.  This is the most drama I've ever seen over an injury that a guy has already proven he can play through without any rehab what-so-ever. 

Do you realize Russell Westbrook has played 2 more seasons than IT, and had THREE knee surgeries?  Do you realize he's missed a full season's worth of games in his career and is far more reliant on contact, athleticism, and getting to the rim to be successful than IT and no one ever questions the longevity of his career?

And yet IT missed one playoff series that the Celtics were clearly not winning after his sister died, his teeth were knocked out, and his hip was injured and everyone wants to say his career is over. 

I'm not surprised, this is what people do, they search for reasons to doubt IT and justify trading him.  His entire career no matter what he does people ALWAYS find reasons to doubt him.  He single-handedly ruined the Celtics rebuilding process by taking them from lottery contention to the Eastern Conference finals in two years and still people doubt him.   

You should all know better by now. 

Mark my words, the Cavs will be winning a Championship this season.         
TP. And all these “reports" will just continue to get worse and worse. I predict that by the start of the season we will be hearing that IT’s hip has disintegrated and he is on his death bed.
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Offline Bucketgetter

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For God's sakes people.  None of you even knew he had a hip issue until he went out in the Cavs series.  He played half a season and 20 playoff games after tearing his labrum and was nearly the leading scorer in the NBA.

Stop with this nonsense.  Anyone over the age of 20 has OA in some of their joints and damage to the discs in their spine, and most of them have FAI as well - many of them even have *GASP* labral tears!  All these people (and many of you) are walking the earth completely ignorant of the fact that their bodies are exhibiting structural abnormalities and wear and tear.

IT will be fine.  This is the most drama I've ever seen over an injury that a guy has already proven he can play through without any rehab what-so-ever. 

Do you realize Russell Westbrook has played 2 more seasons than IT, and had THREE knee surgeries?  Do you realize he's missed a full season's worth of games in his career and is far more reliant on contact, athleticism, and getting to the rim to be successful than IT and no one ever questions the longevity of his career?

And yet IT missed one playoff series that the Celtics were clearly not winning after his sister died, his teeth were knocked out, and his hip was injured and everyone wants to say his career is over. 

I'm not surprised, this is what people do, they search for reasons to doubt IT and justify trading him.  His entire career no matter what he does people ALWAYS find reasons to doubt him.  He single-handedly ruined the Celtics rebuilding process by taking them from lottery contention to the Eastern Conference finals in two years and still people doubt him.   

You should all know better by now. 

Mark my words, the Cavs will be winning a Championship this season.         

Lol nope. I don't even think they'll make the Finals. He might hate himself doing it, but Brad is going to have a heyday exploiting that IT defensive mismatch in the ECF.

EDIT: By the way, is that you, IT? That's really the only rational explanation for such a wild overreaction to this thread.

So you're saying.. the Celtics are making the Finals?  :o

That would be nice but then we'd get absolutely stomped by Golden State (unless somehow we also acquired Porzingis or Davis at the deadline - long shot and unlikely).  :P
You never know. I think it’s kind of ridiculous to just pencil them in for another championship, especially when their 2 best players have the injury histories that Durant and Curry have.
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Offline Diggles

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Well this is certainly a reason Danny traded IT.   Smart business man.   Sucks for IT~ I hope he comes back, can't find a brinks truck so he hops into a Kia and resigns with us and becomes the 6th man of the year in 2018/19 

Online kozlodoev

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With someone like IT this is his first major injury ever and serious people in the media (not just posters here) are speculating that it is a very serious long term problem. When was the last time a player had one injury like that and everyone starting speculating it was a career ender when the guy was 28?

Who is speculating that?  And is there such thing as serious people in sports media? Isn't everything click bait?

It would be almost unprecedented for this to be a career-ending injury.  As the infamous ESPN article said, many, many guys with hip injuries treat it with rest, and nobody really knows about it. Then, there are players who have surgery. Almost all players returned to about the level they were pre-surgery; good players stayed good, and lousy players stayed lousy.
Who's the guy who had a labrum tear in his hip, treated it with rest and came back to be the same guy?
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Offline celticsclay

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With someone like IT this is his first major injury ever and serious people in the media (not just posters here) are speculating that it is a very serious long term problem. When was the last time a player had one injury like that and everyone starting speculating it was a career ender when the guy was 28?

Who is speculating that?  And is there such thing as serious people in sports media? Isn't everything click bait?

It would be almost unprecedented for this to be a career-ending injury.  As the infamous ESPN article said, many, many guys with hip injuries treat it with rest, and nobody really knows about it. Then, there are players who have surgery. Almost all players returned to about the level they were pre-surgery; good players stayed good, and lousy players stayed lousy.

Unprecedented seems like it is strongly worded. It seems like it clearly ended Martel Webster's career. It seems like Gerald Henderson has never recovered from his surgery and will now miss another season. Gary Neal had an 8 year career as a steady backup point guard always averaging 20 minutes a game and then had the surgery and played 18 total minutes last year. I don't believe he is currently on a team. I don't think there is enough to know about Flynn's injury and overall skill to determine if it dramatically impacted his career.

On the flipside Wilson Chandler and Lamarcus Aldridge definitely had totally fine careers after it. However, overall your comments are underselling the severity of the history of this outlined in the article. It does really seem like some people are getting caught up in the emotion about this. I really like IT and wish him the best, I hated the trade initially and even wrote a post asking people to talk me off the ledge. However, I think being pretty objective a lot of new information has come out the last week (he won't start the season, don't know when he is ready, more details of similar players that had the same issues etc). I think it is fair to feel there is more doubt about his ability to fully return than there was a month ago (keep in mind 6 weeks ago the Celtics said he would be ready for training camp).

Offline CelticSooner

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For God's sakes people.  None of you even knew he had a hip issue until he went out in the Cavs series.  He played half a season and 20 playoff games after tearing his labrum and was nearly the leading scorer in the NBA.

Stop with this nonsense.  Anyone over the age of 20 has OA in some of their joints and damage to the discs in their spine, and most of them have FAI as well - many of them even have *GASP* labral tears!  All these people (and many of you) are walking the earth completely ignorant of the fact that their bodies are exhibiting structural abnormalities and wear and tear.

IT will be fine.  This is the most drama I've ever seen over an injury that a guy has already proven he can play through without any rehab what-so-ever. 

Do you realize Russell Westbrook has played 2 more seasons than IT, and had THREE knee surgeries?  Do you realize he's missed a full season's worth of games in his career and is far more reliant on contact, athleticism, and getting to the rim to be successful than IT and no one ever questions the longevity of his career?

And yet IT missed one playoff series that the Celtics were clearly not winning after his sister died, his teeth were knocked out, and his hip was injured and everyone wants to say his career is over. 

I'm not surprised, this is what people do, they search for reasons to doubt IT and justify trading him.  His entire career no matter what he does people ALWAYS find reasons to doubt him.  He single-handedly ruined the Celtics rebuilding process by taking them from lottery contention to the Eastern Conference finals in two years and still people doubt him.   

You should all know better by now. 

Mark my words, the Cavs will be winning a Championship this season.         

We'll see how IT looks when he eventually returns but you haven't seen nothing with the Warriors yet. They got even better over the summer and now have a comfortable Durant. They're repeating barring injury.

Offline jpotter33

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For God's sakes people.  None of you even knew he had a hip issue until he went out in the Cavs series.  He played half a season and 20 playoff games after tearing his labrum and was nearly the leading scorer in the NBA.

Stop with this nonsense.  Anyone over the age of 20 has OA in some of their joints and damage to the discs in their spine, and most of them have FAI as well - many of them even have *GASP* labral tears!  All these people (and many of you) are walking the earth completely ignorant of the fact that their bodies are exhibiting structural abnormalities and wear and tear.

IT will be fine.  This is the most drama I've ever seen over an injury that a guy has already proven he can play through without any rehab what-so-ever. 

Do you realize Russell Westbrook has played 2 more seasons than IT, and had THREE knee surgeries?  Do you realize he's missed a full season's worth of games in his career and is far more reliant on contact, athleticism, and getting to the rim to be successful than IT and no one ever questions the longevity of his career?

And yet IT missed one playoff series that the Celtics were clearly not winning after his sister died, his teeth were knocked out, and his hip was injured and everyone wants to say his career is over. 

I'm not surprised, this is what people do, they search for reasons to doubt IT and justify trading him.  His entire career no matter what he does people ALWAYS find reasons to doubt him.  He single-handedly ruined the Celtics rebuilding process by taking them from lottery contention to the Eastern Conference finals in two years and still people doubt him.   

You should all know better by now. 

Mark my words, the Cavs will be winning a Championship this season.         

Lol nope. I don't even think they'll make the Finals. He might hate himself doing it, but Brad is going to have a heyday exploiting that IT defensive mismatch in the ECF.

EDIT: By the way, is that you, IT? That's really the only rational explanation for such a wild overreaction to this thread.

So you're saying.. the Celtics are making the Finals?  :o

That would be nice but then we'd get absolutely stomped by Golden State (unless somehow we also acquired Porzingis or Davis at the deadline - long shot and unlikely).  :P

I think we matchup pretty well with GS actually, even better than we matchup with Cleveland.

They'd definitely be the favorites, but I think if we gel well together we could definitely give them all they could handle. And injuries can always affect things, too.
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Offline Roy H.

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With someone like IT this is his first major injury ever and serious people in the media (not just posters here) are speculating that it is a very serious long term problem. When was the last time a player had one injury like that and everyone starting speculating it was a career ender when the guy was 28?

Who is speculating that?  And is there such thing as serious people in sports media? Isn't everything click bait?

It would be almost unprecedented for this to be a career-ending injury.  As the infamous ESPN article said, many, many guys with hip injuries treat it with rest, and nobody really knows about it. Then, there are players who have surgery. Almost all players returned to about the level they were pre-surgery; good players stayed good, and lousy players stayed lousy.

Unprecedented seems like it is strongly worded. It seems like it clearly ended Martel Webster's career. It seems like Gerald Henderson has never recovered from his surgery and will now miss another season. Gary Neal had an 8 year career as a steady backup point guard always averaging 20 minutes a game and then had the surgery and played 18 total minutes last year. I don't believe he is currently on a team. I don't think there is enough to know about Flynn's injury and overall skill to determine if it dramatically impacted his career.

On the flipside Wilson Chandler and Lamarcus Aldridge definitely had totally fine careers after it. However, overall your comments are underselling the severity of the history of this outlined in the article. It does really seem like some people are getting caught up in the emotion about this. I really like IT and wish him the best, I hated the trade initially and even wrote a post asking people to talk me off the ledge. However, I think being pretty objective a lot of new information has come out the last week (he won't start the season, don't know when he is ready, more details of similar players that had the same issues etc). I think it is fair to feel there is more doubt about his ability to fully return than there was a month ago (keep in mind 6 weeks ago the Celtics said he would be ready for training camp).

Gary Neal is out of the league because of attitude problems. One link of many.

Martell Webster had a long history of serious injuries before injuring his hip. He was lousy in his final season even before the injury.

I'm a bit confused by citing Gerald Henderson. He got surgery in May 2011. His two best seasons were in 2012 and 2013.

Am I underselling it, or is Tom Haberstroh sensationalizing this story?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 08:03:28 PM by Roy H. »


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Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I gathered links to a few treatment outcome studies for this injury.  Articles were chosen based on whether they were open access (so you all can view them) and date (more recent) and number of citations (impact).

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00167-007-0332-x

Between 2000-2005, 45 professional athletes were treated for FAI with surgery (athroscopy) and operative/return-to-play data were gathered from the patients' records. 

Most pertinent results (more detail available):

Quote
The average age of the athletes at the time of surgery was 31 years (range: 17–61). Eleven athletes (24%) previously underwent hip arthroscopy by multiple primary surgeons for the treatment of labral and chondral pathologies and experienced a recurrence of hip symptoms. The average time to follow-up was 1.6 years (range: 6 months to 5.5 years; sidenote: no SD provided).

Twenty-two athletes (49%) were treated for an isolated cam lesion and three athletes (7%) were treated for an isolated pincer lesion. Twenty-one athletes (47%) had a mixed pathology of both cam and pincer lesions.

All of the athletes had acetabular labral tears. Twenty-five patients (56%) underwent either labral repair or re-fixation following rim trimming with suture anchors (average 1.3 anchors per patient, range: 1–3).

Treatment outcome was good for a sample of mostly hockey players, but all underwent surgery, and the timeline was brutal.  I would imagine it's a short-term vs long-term payoff -- he obv wouldn't want to undergo surgery and undoubtedly miss his entire contract year; on the flip side, while he may still be able to play, standard rehab may not provide a good long-term prognosis.

Another study looked at the prevalence of NFL combine athletes - hip radiography is, or at least was, part of the process - from 2007 to 2009.  107 players met their criteria of FAI.  That's a lot of guys that were playing with the condition and probably didn't even know it.

abstract: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0749806312001764

I don't care for this level of detail, but here is a well-written review article about the injury and operative procedure(s):

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mara_Schenker/publication/7143415_Arthroscopy_for_the_Treatment_of_Femoroacetabular_Impingement_in_the_Athlete/links/0c9605347de5f43bca000000/Arthroscopy-for-the-Treatment-of-Femoroacetabular-Impingement-in-the-Athlete.pdf

In a nutshell, it looks like arthroscopy is effective in pro athletes, and on average, they get the surgery ~ age 30. But recovery time seems longer than IT could manage in a contract year. Didn't find one study of non-surgical outcome (e.g., rehab, rest).
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 10:45:31 PM by tarheelsxxiii »
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Offline Boris Badenov

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Didn't find one study of non-surgical outcome (e.g., rehab, rest).

This is the oddest thing about the situation to me. Why rest when it seems normal to have surgery? Or do those studies only look at guys who ultimately decided on surgery? Do they ignore other players who've had a tear and then recovered without surgery?

We are all flying blind here. But that seems like an answerable question.

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Didn't find one study of non-surgical outcome (e.g., rehab, rest).

This is the oddest thing about the situation to me. Why rest when it seems normal to have surgery? Or do those studies only look at guys who ultimately decided on surgery? Do they ignore other players who've had a tear and then recovered without surgery?

We are all flying blind here. But that seems like an answerable question.

Yeah, I thought there'd be at least one study of rehab without surgery, but I only came across arthroscopy studies.  Seems like there's too much variability in severity, need for treatment, treatment type, etc. to even speculate about one player. I do think he probably just wants to play through it because it's a contract year, though.
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Offline Birdman

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Don't want to sound like a bad guy here but Thomas is Cleveland problem now, not ours..so I'm going to rejoice us getting Irving and Hayward and cant wait for season to start

Offline playdream

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For God's sakes people.  None of you even knew he had a hip issue until he went out in the Cavs series.  He played half a season and 20 playoff games after tearing his labrum and was nearly the leading scorer in the NBA.

Stop with this nonsense.  Anyone over the age of 20 has OA in some of their joints and damage to the discs in their spine, and most of them have FAI as well - many of them even have *GASP* labral tears!  All these people (and many of you) are walking the earth completely ignorant of the fact that their bodies are exhibiting structural abnormalities and wear and tear.

IT will be fine.  This is the most drama I've ever seen over an injury that a guy has already proven he can play through without any rehab what-so-ever. 

Do you realize Russell Westbrook has played 2 more seasons than IT, and had THREE knee surgeries?  Do you realize he's missed a full season's worth of games in his career and is far more reliant on contact, athleticism, and getting to the rim to be successful than IT and no one ever questions the longevity of his career?

And yet IT missed one playoff series that the Celtics were clearly not winning after his sister died, his teeth were knocked out, and his hip was injured and everyone wants to say his career is over. 

I'm not surprised, this is what people do, they search for reasons to doubt IT and justify trading him.  His entire career no matter what he does people ALWAYS find reasons to doubt him.  He single-handedly ruined the Celtics rebuilding process by taking them from lottery contention to the Eastern Conference finals in two years and still people doubt him.   

You should all know better by now. 

Mark my words, the Cavs will be winning a Championship this season.         
That is not true,during second half of the season i had noticed his condition to be up and down and wondered what's wrong with it, turns out he played with a injured hip

and last time i check RW is not 5"9