Author Topic: Report: IT hip injury more than just torn labrum; arthritis + loss of cartilage  (Read 2914 times)

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Offline CelticsElite

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Anyone critical of the kyrie trade should be thankful Danny is creative and makes genius moves. Had he not moved broken IT with the pick, we'd be stuck playing rozier and having IT walk on us

Online Fafnir

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Yeah all the injury leaks are making it very clear why Boston was so aggressive to get this deal done. They wanted no part of the IT's upcoming contract.

Offline coffee425

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It's ironic that people think that the trade doesnt improve the team for this year, but were okay with IT4 missing the start of the season to rehab.

I guess you would rather start season with a losing record with an injured IT4, than start the season with a healthy kyrie
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Offline Green-18

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It's ironic that people think that the trade doesnt improve the team for this year, but were okay with IT4 missing the start of the season to rehab.

I guess you would rather start season with a losing record with an injured IT4, than start the season with a healthy kyrie

I completely agree.  I really hate to see IT gone but there's no doubt that Danny needed to make this move once IT's hip became such a concern.

Offline td450

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I have to say that Cleveland has set itself up for a world of woe. IT, Derrick Rose and LeBron could all implode at roughly the same time. They could lose IT whether he gets healthy or not. The Brooklyn pick may not even end up being top 10.

Meanwhile, Ainge grabs Irving and avoids the IT train wreck. He somehow grabs what could be a better pick than the Brooklyn pick while still getting his favorite option in last year's draft.

We gave up a valuable guy in Crowder, but you could argue that no team in NBA history has ever had so much quality depth at small forward, ever. It would have been a waste to keep him.

Amazing work.

Offline jambr380

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Starting to understand this trade more and more. Had to give up the Brooklyn pick because IT may just turn out to be salary filler because he might not play this year or ever again.

We had to give up the BKN pick because Cleveland wouldn't have done the deal without it - even with a healthy IT. With the possible/likely departure of Lebron next off-season, why in the world would the Cavs do this deal without a key building block for the future?

Perhaps the LAL/Sac pick could have gotten it done, maybe even top 1 protection, but without the BKN pick there would be no Kyrie in Boston, no matter what.

But, yes, I agree with the overall premise of the deal now making a lot more sense. The Cavs and Isaiah are putting on the front that it was a Kyrie for IT swap, but everybody knows it was a Kyrie for BKN '18 swap...makes it a little uncomfortable.


Cleveland may have wanted that, but I don't think the Celtics give that to the Cavs if IT is healthy.   

The whole "fit the timeline" may have been more about Irving vs. next years draft pick.

But then we're back to the argument of whether DA would have signed IT to a long-term near max contract. Even if healthy, I don't think Ainge ever felt comfortable doing so (but might have felt 'forced' due to being over the cap with no better options).

I have always looked at the trade as two trades: Kyrie for IT, Crowder, and Z this year / Kyrie for Crowder, Z, and BKN '18 for 2018 and beyond.

It is looking more and more like it is just Kyrie for Crowder, Z, and BKN '18 only, while also hampering your main opponent in the East by giving them an injured PG and taking theirs. I honestly hope IT comes back healthy and would even be okay losing to the Cavs in the ECF THIS year; however, if IT doesn't get it worked out this season, then Ainge really would have swindled Koby.

Offline Green-18

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I have to say that Cleveland has set itself up for a world of woe. IT, Derrick Rose and LeBron could all implode at roughly the same time. They could lose IT whether he gets healthy or not. The Brooklyn pick may not even end up being top 10.

Meanwhile, Ainge grabs Irving and avoids the IT train wreck. He somehow grabs what could be a better pick than the Brooklyn pick while still getting his favorite option in last year's draft.

We gave up a valuable guy in Crowder, but you could argue that no team in NBA history has ever had so much quality depth at small forward, ever. It would have been a waste to keep him.

Amazing work.

This could all end up happening but let's not underestimate IT and Crowder.  Regardless of the reports it's entirely possible that IT returns late in the season and returns to form before the playoffs.  The addition of two underdogs might be a good thing for the DNA of the Cavs.  They could use some mental toughness and I still think our squad would struggle to beat a healthy Cavs team in the playoffs.

As for the Nets I agree that they should be better this season now that more teams are looking to tank this season.  Let's hope that they can win close to 30 games. 

Offline eja117

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According to a source....who is violating his Hippa rights.

Isn't it just the healthcare provider that is bound by HIPPA laws? If a friend of IT or someone from IT's team is the source, there is no HIPPA violation.

The law isn't exactly clear in this regard, but I think it could probably be interpreted as a HIPPA violation if any member of the organization with direct access to the records made the leak.

But this report doesn't necessarily say that, only saying someone with direct knowledge of his hip condition. If this was secondhand information, I'm not sure that it would be considered a violation.

But this doesn't really matter either way. These kinds of leaks happen all of the time in professional athletes. It sucks, but I think people have largely accepted it as just part of being a professional athlete.

EDIT: Yeah, as Pho said above.
If it's someone IT told then IT told that person something completely different than he told the whole world.

Bottom line....someone lied. When it becomes clear who it was that person needs to deal with the consequences. If IT comes back just like he said then this journalist has to say "My source lied and I'll never use him again. I gave you guys a bad source."  If it's IT that lied then we can't ever really believe him again. My guess is the guy who needed to be anonymous and probably broke HIPPA is the liar....if he even exists, which is questionable.

Online jpotter33

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According to a source....who is violating his Hippa rights.

Isn't it just the healthcare provider that is bound by HIPPA laws? If a friend of IT or someone from IT's team is the source, there is no HIPPA violation.

The law isn't exactly clear in this regard, but I think it could probably be interpreted as a HIPPA violation if any member of the organization with direct access to the records made the leak.

But this report doesn't necessarily say that, only saying someone with direct knowledge of his hip condition. If this was secondhand information, I'm not sure that it would be considered a violation.

But this doesn't really matter either way. These kinds of leaks happen all of the time in professional athletes. It sucks, but I think people have largely accepted it as just part of being a professional athlete.

EDIT: Yeah, as Pho said above.
If it's someone IT told then IT told that person something completely different than he told the whole world.

Bottom line....someone lied. When it becomes clear who it was that person needs to deal with the consequences. If IT comes back just like he said then this journalist has to say "My source lied and I'll never use him again. I gave you guys a bad source."  If it's IT that lied then we can't ever really believe him again. My guess is the guy who needed to be anonymous and probably broke HIPPA is the liar....if he even exists, which is questionable.

You don't think IT has about $100 million reasons to underplay his hip injury?

I think IT, Koby, and the whole bunch of them have plenty of reasons to downplay his injury. If they don't underplay it, then IT costs himself a ton of money, and Koby essentially opens the door for Lebron to leave next year by admitting to trading for a player they knew would be out for most of the season.
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Offline Boris Badenov

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Starting to understand this trade more and more. Had to give up the Brooklyn pick because IT may just turn out to be salary filler because he might not play this year or ever again.

Yes, it's not a certainty, but based on the assets in the trade, the seasons both players had last year, and the information we've been receiving so far, I haven't understood why this wasn't viewed as a stronger possibility from the get-go. And yet, we've had people going to the mats on how, as of right now, IT is a superior player to Kyrie. Or that he'll certainly have a better next couple of years than Kyrie.

Those arguments don't make sense to me. Everyone knows how good IT was last year, and everyone knows Kyrie's limitations (and advantages). I think the argument about who would be better "when healthy" is one where reasonable people can disagree.

But the framework of the trade suggests that both parties view the two players as anything but equal as of today. There are age and contract issues, but those don't seem enough to cause Danny Ainge to add that incredibly valuable BKN pick. He's not stupid and he's been super-protective of his picks to this point.

Now, IT might come back this year and be a lot better than Irving. He might not. But I think a reasonable view of the trade would suggest that option #2 is, and always was, viewed as a significantly likely outcome by the people who know more about the situation than anyone else.

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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None of these new reports seem to add information or clarify the situation.  Loss of cartilage was inherent in his injury. Joint injuries cause arthritis -- was this not a common expectation?  There are a million types of arthritis, and at 28, he may not feel symptoms/pain from that for many years.

He has probably played with this issue for a long time.  He clearly manages his pain well, however he goes about it.

CLE made the situation awkward by trying to squeeze more out of the trade.  Apparently no new information was gleaned from his physical, so it's just as plausible that they were being coy in their negotiations.  If so, they're now in an awkward position when asked to speak to his injury.  That also seems very intuitive.

I worry a lot about his long-term status.  I'd bet on his every day of the week -- he's probably willing to play the first game of this season, and wouldn't shut it down until he felt he was hurting vs. helping his team.  But no matter how healthy he is (and I'm not discounting that the injury could be very serious), his value around the league has taken a devastating hit.
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Offline celticsclay

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You are seeing more and more people opening up to the possibility that IT will not contribute as much as previously thought this season. How many games does Rose, Smith, James, Love and Thompson win (Crowder, Jeff Green, Shumpert etc off bench)

Rose is all of a sudden a key to their season. Crazy

Offline Roy H.

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Osteoarthritis isn't a surprise. I'd be shocked if he didn't have it, especially with his underlying hip condition.

The part I'm more interested in is his arthritis slowing down the healing process. That doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense to me, but I never advanced beyond Biology 102. I still think the career ending aspect of this is media sensationalism.


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Offline celticsclay

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Osteoarthritis isn't a surprise. I'd be shocked if he didn't have it, especially with his underlying hip condition.

The part I'm more interested in is his arthritis slowing down the healing process. That doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense to me, but I never advanced beyond Biology 102. I still think the career ending aspect of this is media sensationalism.

When was the last time the NBA was heavily speculating a guy had a career ending injury. I am sure it has happened, but I am not really remembering this off hand recently. Were people speculating that when KG got hurt? Or for any of Blake Griffins injuries? Again, would totally believe it happened, but it isn't something i remember frequently happening. (obviously the trade being held up is not something that occurs more than once a year out of all trades)

Offline Birdman

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Hip injury are very serious and could hurt anyone career in sports..look what happen to Bo Jackson...hopefully Thomas isn't that bad