If IT4 Was 100% Healthy, Would DA Have Kept Him For LONG Haul?

[mctyson]

Healthy IT > Kyrie

How many posts have you stated this in over the last 3 weeks? It's pretty extreme.  And yet Thomas is not healthy.

Let's clarify this: assuming reasonable health for both, how many NBA teams wouldn't trade IT for Irving straight up on this date / time, IYO? Please explain you're answer if the answer is more than 1-3 teams.

Jeez that's a big call. All offseason I had been defending IT and saying that his level of play in 16-17 was equal to Kyrie. But to say that IT, when health, is superior to Kyrie is pretty crazy.

IT is not healthy, so saying "oh but when he's healthy" is useless, because he might never be the same in terms of health that he was with us. Everyone gets that you don't like the trade (hard to avoid you saying something about it), but that's a bit of a silly thing to say.

This hypothetical presumes a healthy IT.

As for "silly" and "hysterical"...

IT advantages: PPG, APG, 3PT, FTM, eFG%, TS%, ORtg, PER, WS, DWS, OWS, BPM, VORP, clutch shooting and scoring, All-NBA votes, MVP votes, most defensive statistics

Kyrie advantages: FGA, MPG, RPG, SPG, 3PT%, trade demands

Between the two, IT was clearly better last year. That's why when NBA voters looked at the two, IT was All-NBA and 5th in MVP voting.

While I am not going to dispute these stats about last year you have to understand that Danny clearly was not going to keep IT for the "long haul" especially given that Kyrie is 4 years younger.

I think they are equal players (when IT is healthy) and Danny gave up a lot to move an injured IT and replace him with a younger version.

[SHAQATTACK]

Danny chose wisely . 

[Roy H.]

Kyrie is 4 years younger.

3 years. 

[wayupnorth]

Kyrie is 4 years younger.

3 years. 

Many others have said it, but man, you have always been one if the most even keeled, and rational posters on this board, but the Kyrie trade has you trippin'.

[Roy H.]

Kyrie is 4 years younger.

3 years. 

Many others have said it, but man, you have always been one if the most even keeled, and rational posters on this board, but the Kyrie trade has you trippin'.

Because I corrected an oft-repeated factual mistake?

There's a three year age gap.

[mctyson]

Kyrie is 4 years younger.

3 years. 

Many others have said it, but man, you have always been one if the most even keeled, and rational posters on this board, but the Kyrie trade has you trippin'.

Because I corrected an oft-repeated factual mistake?

There's a three year age gap.

OK 3 years.  Making him a whole max-contract with player option younger than IT.   

If you could get IT's productivity for 5 more years versus 2, would you make a trade for that?  Because that is what this is all about.

[RLewis35]

You basically have a guy who:
* Is 5'10"
* Is 28 years old
* Was taken 60th in the draft, because everybody knew how huge a liability his height is on D

None of these are measures of how he has actually played.

The bold part did happen in every single game I've seen last season. It is a fact. He was constantly isolated on defense while on court.

Yep, just like Kyrie and Curry.  IT's short, and they're weak/brittle.  He finished higher in MVP voting than both though, so I guess his detriment isn't quite as bad. Crazy stuff, Dario.

LOL what an argument... I feel supported indeed if this is it.

Anyhow, if you think 6'3" players are as easy/frequent to be isolated defensively as a 5'7" player well, maybe you should see more games    Crazy stuff, yeah.

Why so hung up on isolation? There are more facets to defense than iso. And the metrics show that Kyrie was as bad defensively, if not worse, than IT. He's really bad, there's no way around it. And I know people believe he can become a good one under Brad, because hope is eternal. But I don't believe there is precedent of a player going from p---poor, arguably the worst in the league at defense... to a plus defender. Are you saying he's going to go from extremely terrible to simply awful?

Plus, Kyrie was worse in ISO defense than IT.

Kyrie was in the bottom 12.3% league-wide (among all players, including scrubs).  The only full-time PG who was worse? Rajon Rondo.

IT defended isolations at an average level, at about the 51st percentile.

Conversely, both guys were absolutely elite on offensive isolation, with IT holding the tiniest edge in effectiveness (95.3 percentile, vs. 94.9), but with Kyrie running ISO plays more often (tied with Lebron for fourth in isolation possessions, behind Harden, Westbrook and Carmelo).

True but IT was hidden on the worst offensive player 1-3 on the other team and that player was often forced to attempt to ISO just bc IT was guarding him even though it wasn't his game.

Kylie on the other hand did not have as many defensive accommodations made for him. He has to improve no doubt, but any rational person who watches basketball regularly should agree that if you need a guy to defend a guard in a big spot and your only choices are Kyrie or IT, you pick Kyrie 100 times out of 100. Defense is one area that ITs height limitations just can't be made up from sheer effort and determination. 

[tarheelsxxiii]

Kyrie is 4 years younger.

3 years. 

Many others have said it, but man, you have always been one if the most even keeled, and rational posters on this board, but the Kyrie trade has you trippin'.

I haven't read a single argument that he has made to be irrational or muddied by emotion. 

[Darío SpanishFan]

Sorry... duplicated

[Roy H.]

Kyrie is 4 years younger.

3 years. 

Many others have said it, but man, you have always been one if the most even keeled, and rational posters on this board, but the Kyrie trade has you trippin'.

Because I corrected an oft-repeated factual mistake?

There's a three year age gap.

OK 3 years.  Making him a whole max-contract with player option younger than IT.   

If you could get IT's productivity for 5 more years versus 2, would you make a trade for that?  Because that is what this is all about.

It's more like IT's production + Crowder's production + Zizic's production + BRK pick's production.

But, that's just rehashing the trade.

On topic, I don't think Danny would have walked away from a healthy IT.  I get the age argument, but Danny committed max dollars to an older Al Horford.

[Darío SpanishFan]

I love IT and that's the only truth here 

[CelticsFanFromNYC]

I think if no trades made sense to DA, he would've kept IT and hoped for Jaylen & Tatum to pop or consolidate and go over the luxury to compete around the A.Davis free agent time period. My opinion of course. No way he saw this Kyrie or any other PG deal coming before passing on a PG in the draft. I think he was more willing to accept IT than actually wanting him despite his amazing play and achievements. Guess the FO didnt think it translated to championships. Celtics made this strictly business.

[Darío SpanishFan]

Kyrie is 4 years younger.

3 years. 

Many others have said it, but man, you have always been one if the most even keeled, and rational posters on this board, but the Kyrie trade has you trippin'.

Because I corrected an oft-repeated factual mistake?

There's a three year age gap.

A factual mistake is 6 inches shorter...

[tarheelsxxiii]

Kyrie is 4 years younger.

3 years. 

Many others have said it, but man, you have always been one if the most even keeled, and rational posters on this board, but the Kyrie trade has you trippin'.

Because I corrected an oft-repeated factual mistake?

There's a three year age gap.

A factual mistake is 6 inches shorter...

Daniel Theis is 6 inches taller than Kyrie...

[Roy H.]

Kyrie is 4 years younger.

3 years. 

Many others have said it, but man, you have always been one if the most even keeled, and rational posters on this board, but the Kyrie trade has you trippin'.

Because I corrected an oft-repeated factual mistake?

There's a three year age gap.

A factual mistake is 6 inches shorter...

5 inches. 

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba-draft-combine-measurements-0