Author Topic: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton  (Read 1546 times)

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Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2017, 03:51:55 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I expect Morris to be decent as a starting PF for us and the 4th option (and maybe 5th) on Offense.  No, he is not a prototypical PF, no, he won't stretch the floor, but he will get buckets, play decent defense, and I believe rebound more than sufficiently.  In short, he will give us what we need from our 4th or 5th best player.

I think you are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.  Now if you can show me a way to trade Morris and bring in someone who would be better at PF, great, show me, but we don't need two more players that maybe marginally upgrade the end of our bench.

Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2017, 08:59:15 PM »

Offline ssspence

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I expect Morris to be decent as a starting PF for us and the 4th option (and maybe 5th) on Offense.  No, he is not a prototypical PF, no, he won't stretch the floor, but he will get buckets, play decent defense, and I believe rebound more than sufficiently.  In short, he will give us what we need from our 4th or 5th best player.

I think you are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.  Now if you can show me a way to trade Morris and bring in someone who would be better at PF, great, show me, but we don't need two more players that maybe marginally upgrade the end of our bench.

How's he gonna get buckets with Kyrie and Hayward as a starter?

http://www.celticshub.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Screen-Shot-2017-09-02-at-10.52.34-PM.png

He better come off the bench....



Mike

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Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2017, 09:41:02 PM »

Offline Granath

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Marcus Morris has shown he can play 30 minutes a game in this league. He's not a stud, but he will provide you some spacing, can play defense against Lebron and is a flexible 3/4. He's the kind of workmanlike player that every team has out there. He's not a guy who is generally going to win you games, but he's not one who is generally going to lose them either. He's not great at anything and he's a dreadful rebounder. But beyond the boards he's not terrible at anything either. While Morris didn't play a ton of PF in Detroit, he wanted to because he thinks he can be more effective there. He should do just fine in Brad's system.

Vonleh, on the other hand, has shown very little in his career. He can rebound the ball and that's about all he's shown. We have that guy in Aron Baynes already and could pick him up again in Thomas Robinson. Moreover, in 3 years he hasn't shown he can fill any kind of role on the 1st team. His game has shown almost no growth in 3 years across two different teams.

That last point is a major problem. The Cs do not have the depth in the front court to risk a flier on Vonleh. If he can't step up - and there's not much to suggest he can - then there is zero experienced depth up front. That's an awful risk to take. You'd have Horford, Baynes and whoever the Cs can get with the vet minimum. Everyone else would be untested and unbloodied. That's an incredibly thin roster.

Say Horford goes down for 10 games this coming year. It's a struggle. Baynes/Morris start with the vet minimum playing backup. Hayward moves to take a few minutes at the 4. A couple of the young guys may get a few minutes but that's the bulk of the minutes for now. If you can get 25 minutes out of Baynes and 30 from Morris, it's manageable for a short-term problem. We won't win the battle up front but at least we can put a couple of guys out there to take the major minutes who have shown they can play in the NBA.

Remove Morris and the equation is quite different. If Vonleh can't really play as a starter (and again there's no proof he can) then you're forced to move Hayward to play the 4 almost full-time because there's no one else who can. He's over-matched at that position anyway and now you have to shift everything else around. Brown or Tatum have to take the 3. Smart has to take the 2 which likely disrupts the 2nd team. The 2nd and 3rd order effects are massive. It simply isn't worth the risk.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2017, 10:07:07 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Marcus Morris has shown he can play 30 minutes a game in this league.

Something like that. And the more MPG he plays, the less wins his team accrues.

How many mins should he play on the Cs in 2017-18?
Mike

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Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2017, 10:32:55 PM »

Offline Granath

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Marcus Morris has shown he can play 30 minutes a game in this league.

Something like that. And the more MPG he plays, the less wins his team accrues.

How many mins should he play on the Cs in 2017-18?

1. Untrue. He played 35 mins in 15-16 and the Pistons won 44 games. He played 32 in 16-17 and his team won 37 games (and note that he didn't play at all for Detroit the year before and they won 32 games).

2. Morris will probably get 24-26 minutes per game this year. Much like Amir the last two years, he'll start games and be used situationally after that. Unlike Amir, he's more effective on the offensive end which means he can be used in more situations. If Semi or Thies step up, that will cut into Morris' minutes but I don't expect that out of rookies.

Now let me counter..

1. What makes you think Vonleh can play a significant role for the Celtics?
2. If he can't start, who plays the 4 if Horford is starting at the 5?
3. What kind of depth issues does it create without an experienced guy like Morris?
4. What makes you think that a guy who 1800 or more minutes each of the last 4 seasons and  is in his prime can be classified as a "fringe" player?
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2017, 10:52:40 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Marcus Morris has shown he can play 30 minutes a game in this league.

Something like that. And the more MPG he plays, the less wins his team accrues.

How many mins should he play on the Cs in 2017-18?

1. Untrue. He played 35 mins in 15-16 and the Pistons won 44 games. He played 32 in 16-17 and his team won 37 games (and note that he didn't play at all for Detroit the year before and they won 32 games).

2. Morris will probably get 24-26 minutes per game this year. Much like Amir the last two years, he'll start games and be used situationally after that. Unlike Amir, he's more effective on the offensive end which means he can be used in more situations. If Semi or Thies step up, that will cut into Morris' minutes but I don't expect that out of rookies.

Now let me counter..

1. What makes you think Vonleh can play a significant role for the Celtics?
2. If he can't start, who plays the 4 if Horford is starting at the 5?
3. What kind of depth issues does it create without an experienced guy like Morris?
4. What makes you think that a guy who 1800 or more minutes each of the last 4 seasons and  is in his prime can be classified as a "fringe" player?

Too much ******** here. My point:

1) Morris is an overrated pickup, and a weak fit. Ship him;
2) We need a 4 who can shoot, block a shot, and board.

#2 doesn't grow on trees.
Mike

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Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2017, 10:53:24 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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It is an idea, just a terrible one. 
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2017, 10:57:35 PM »

Offline ssspence

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It is an idea, just a terrible one.

Thanks for no input. Do you think Morris is a good fit?
Mike

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Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2017, 10:59:50 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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It is an idea, just a terrible one.

Thanks for no input. Do you think Morris is a good fit?

He fills a major need.  You're right in that he's not efficient, but your argument is weak when you assume Vonleh can benefit from Boston's system and the far superior player will not.  He'll improve in the same vein as Jae, AB, IT, etc.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2017, 11:01:25 PM »

Offline ssspence

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It is an idea, just a terrible one.

Thanks for no input. Do you think Morris is a good fit?

He fills a major need.  You're right in that he's not efficient, but your argument is weak when you assume Vonleh can benefit from Boston's system and the far superior player will not.  He'll improve in the same vein as Jae, AB, IT, etc.

Sorry -- whats ur argument? How is he going to compliment played who replace him?
Mike

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Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2017, 11:08:19 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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It is an idea, just a terrible one.

Thanks for no input. Do you think Morris is a good fit?

He fills a major need.  You're right in that he's not efficient, but your argument is weak when you assume Vonleh can benefit from Boston's system and the far superior player will not.  He'll improve in the same vein as Jae, AB, IT, etc.

Sorry -- whats ur argument? How is he going to compliment played who replace him?

It's not that tough to compliment played who replace him.  Most guys do.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2017, 11:17:00 PM »

Offline ssspence

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He fills a major need.

Let's go back to a productive debate. Which one? Whats he plus at? And how does it compliment the Celtics completely new roster?
Mike

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Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2017, 11:23:02 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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He fills a major need.

Let's go back to a productive debate. Which one? Whats he plus at? And how does it compliment the Celtics completely new roster?

I was never even debating, but again, any debate never even reaches Morris because the return is one fringe NBA player and a guy that jumps high and is good at baseball. 
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2017, 11:25:57 PM »

Offline ssspence

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He fills a major need.

Let's go back to a productive debate. Which one? Whats he plus at? And how does it compliment the Celtics completely new roster?

I was never even debating, but again, any debate never even reaches Morris because the return is one fringe NBA player and a guy that jumps high and is good at baseball.

So you're above the discussion, despite offering nothing useful, and just making a joke out of it. Strong?


Mike

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Re: Trade Idea: Morris for Vonleh & Connaughton
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2017, 11:30:49 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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He fills a major need.

Let's go back to a productive debate. Which one? Whats he plus at? And how does it compliment the Celtics completely new roster?

I was never even debating, but again, any debate never even reaches Morris because the return is one fringe NBA player and a guy that jumps high and is good at baseball.

So you're above the discussion, despite offering nothing useful, and just making a joke out of it. Strong?

Huge gap between what I said and how you interpreted it.  The trade on your return sucks, which is why the proposal is weak.  Every one person in this thread has had the same response.  Hopefully Morris will surprise you, he's pretty good.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird