Author Topic: Melo to Houston will occur within 2 weeks (espn sp). Jabari parker in trade talk  (Read 3371 times)

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Re: Melo to Houston will occur within 2 weeks (espn sports nation)
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2017, 07:39:02 PM »

Offline timpiker

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Melo will hog the ball and kill the chemistry between the other 2 ball hogs.

This!

Offline colincb

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Can't wait for real basketball to start.

Offline Phantom255x

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Can we all just take a minute to acknowledge and then laugh at the fact that Kyrie got traded before Carmelo...

I mean seriously, we've heard Melo trade rumors for like 2 years now, and then Kyrie says, "I want out" and in less than 2 months gets traded LOL.  :laugh:

We even heard a "Kyrie-for-Carmelo" rumor this past season and lots of people denied it saying that Carmelo is not worth Kyrie (TRUE), but also that Kyrie would stay in Cleveland long term and is not getting traded.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

How time flies and how things change daily...

It's hard to trade a guy with a NTC.

Well Kyrie's trade kicker was also a factor and he supposedly waived it for Boston.

Either way yeah I forgot about the NTC aspect of it all, so TP to you for reminding me. That said, if Melo at this point is only considering HOU and they still can't work it out, there's nothing to see here. Melo staying put again.  ::)

Offline max215

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Can we all just take a minute to acknowledge and then laugh at the fact that Kyrie got traded before Carmelo...

I mean seriously, we've heard Melo trade rumors for like 2 years now, and then Kyrie says, "I want out" and in less than 2 months gets traded LOL.  :laugh:

We even heard a "Kyrie-for-Carmelo" rumor this past season and lots of people denied it saying that Carmelo is not worth Kyrie (TRUE), but also that Kyrie would stay in Cleveland long term and is not getting traded.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

How time flies and how things change daily...

It's hard to trade a guy with a NTC.

Well Kyrie's trade kicker was also a factor and he supposedly waived it for Boston.

Either way yeah I forgot about the NTC aspect of it all, so TP to you for reminding me. That said, if Melo at this point is only considering HOU and they still can't work it out, there's nothing to see here. Melo staying put again.  ::)

A trade kicker can be a slight impediment. Kyrie was able to help facilitate the move to the place he wanted to go. A NTC is an entirely different beast. Carmelo Anthony alone will decide which is the next team he plays for.
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Re: Melo to Houston will occur within 2 weeks (espn sports nation)
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2017, 08:37:34 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Melo will hog the ball and kill the chemistry between the other 2 ball hogs.

Please tell me you aren't labelling Chris Paul (arguably the greatest pass-first PG since John Stockton) as a ball hog? 

Harden is fair game though.  Man Harden and Melo on the same team would be frightening, and not in a good way. 

Chris Paul would basically touch the ball 3 times a night as a random spot up shooter (e.g. Steve Nash in LA).

Online The Oracle

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Mentioned in the talks means that the Knicks asked for him, odds of them getting him unless they are sending out more than Melo is basically zero.

That's sports reporting, sadly.

NYK: "How about Jabari"?"

MIL: "Nope".

Reporter: "The Knicks and Bucks discussed Jabari Parker".
Jabari Parker is out probably until Feb. and coming off of his 2nd ACL tear.  He will be an RFA next summer and I would be scared to death to match or sign him to a 4 year contract.  Milwaukee has been saddled with bad contract after bad contract the last few years and I wouldn't doubt at all that they want to dump him.

Milwaukee is listed as the third team in the alleged discussions. Are they going to trade Jabari *and* take back the bad salary required to make a deal work? For what incentive?
Milwaukee has Henson who is useless to them and also on a 3 year contract making 11.4 mill. this year, Parker is very likely to give them nothing this year and will be very risky going forward.  Anderson while overpaid is at least useful and would help them this year.  A lineup of Monroe/Anderson/Giannis/Middleton/Brogdon looks better than what they have right now.  Maybe they get a young player from either N.Y. or Houston in the deal also. 

N.Y. gets: Henson/Ariza/Parker
Houston:  Melo
Milwaukee:  Anderson + a young player from either N.Y. or Houston maybe.

Re: Melo to Houston will occur within 2 weeks (espn sports nation)
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2017, 08:47:18 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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"The one guy"?  :o

Why hasn't it happened if the trade is there. They can't find anyone to eat the bad contract that the Knicks refuse to take on for dropping Melo, that hasn't changed. Portland is willing to eat Anderson but they need someone to eat their own bad contract so it doesn't actually help at all.

You rang?   ;D

Haha!!

That deserves a TP!!!

Offline crimson_stallion

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Mentioned in the talks means that the Knicks asked for him, odds of them getting him unless they are sending out more than Melo is basically zero.

That's sports reporting, sadly.

NYK: "How about Jabari"?"

MIL: "Nope".

Reporter: "The Knicks and Bucks discussed Jabari Parker".

Well, it's not entirely out of the question if the Knicks are legitimately listening to offers for Porzingis (who clearly doesn't seem to want to be there right now). 

The following works in trade machine...

Knicks get:
Ryan Anderson (19.6M) from Houston
Trevor Ariza (7.4M) from Houston
Jabari Parker (6.8M) from Milwaukee

Houston gets:
Carmelo Anthony (26.2M) from New York

Milwaukee gets:
Kristaps Porzingis (4.5M) from New York

Probably makes some sense for all three teams.  Knick add a 21 year old 20/6 guy in Parker, who compensates for losing Porzingis.  Ariza is a nice player on a great contract, and as bad as Ryan Anderson's contract is, at least he is a prototypical stretch big for today's NBA. That's actually a solid return for the Knicks.

Milwaukee would instantly go into beast mode, building around Porzingis and Giannis - scary team for the future right there.

Houston gets Carmelo so they can form their own big 3 (with CP3, Harden, Carmelo).

I think everybody comes out pretty happy tbh.

Re: Melo to Houston will occur within 2 weeks (espn sports nation)
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2017, 08:49:26 PM »

Offline max215

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Melo will hog the ball and kill the chemistry between the other 2 ball hogs.

Please tell me you aren't labelling Chris Paul (arguably the greatest pass-first PG since John Stockton) as a ball hog? 

Harden is fair game though.  Man Harden and Melo on the same team would be frightening, and not in a good way. 

Chris Paul would basically touch the ball 3 times a night as a random spot up shooter (e.g. Steve Nash in LA).

Harden finished 2nd in AST%, ahead of CP3 last year. He also finished ahead of John Wall, LeBron James, and Ricky Rubio. It's not entirely fair to characterize him as a ball hog either, and if you are going to do so, it'd probably be wise to acknowledge the different degrees of ball hoggery, seeing as Anthony ranked 123rd in AST%, behind noted facilitators Sean Kilpatrick and Jamal Crawford.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

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Re: Melo to Houston will occur within 2 weeks (espn sports nation)
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2017, 09:02:01 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Melo will hog the ball and kill the chemistry between the other 2 ball hogs.

Please tell me you aren't labelling Chris Paul (arguably the greatest pass-first PG since John Stockton) as a ball hog? 

Harden is fair game though.  Man Harden and Melo on the same team would be frightening, and not in a good way. 

Chris Paul would basically touch the ball 3 times a night as a random spot up shooter (e.g. Steve Nash in LA).

Harden finished 2nd in AST%, ahead of CP3 last year. He also finished ahead of John Wall, LeBron James, and Ricky Rubio. It's not entirely fair to characterize him as a ball hog either, and if you are going to do so, it'd probably be wise to acknowledge the different degrees of ball hoggery, seeing as Anthony ranked 123rd in AST%, behind noted facilitators Sean Kilpatrick and Jamal Crawford.

Harden finished 2nd in AST% last year after he (and this is something he openly admitted to) took on a personal mission to prove wrong all the people out there who criticised him for being a ball hog. 

Everybody knows Harden is a skilled passer and playmaker when he wants to be, last year is proof of what he can excel a playmaker when he's motivated to NOT be a selfish ball hog.  Every other season of his career prior to that is proof that his natural instinctive preference (when he doesn't have something personal to prove) is to hog the ball on every possession and take 5,000 shots. 

Chris Paul on the other hand is the complete opposite.  He's very much proven that he can be a dominant offensive player when he wants to (he's averaged between 21 - 25 PPG in his last 3 playoff runs) but his natural preference is to make plays for others as a first priority, and only really score when he has to.  That is the very opposite of a ball hog.

Melo falls in the Harden category.  He is actually a very skilled passer and a very intelligent playmaker at his size/position, and his consistent excellence when playing for USA Basketball proves that he can be an outstanding team player when he is motivated to be.  But most of his career he's been surrounded by garbage players, so I can imagine he's probably felt like a lone man on an island - he hasn't had many teammates he can trust or depend on, so he hogs the ball because he feels like he has to do everything himself, or else it wont get done.

I think that these three guys are very CAPABLE of making this thing work if they go in with the same type of mindframe that KG/Pierce/Ray took into Boston - have trust in each other, and each man sacrifices for the greater good of the team.  Whether that would actually happen...that's yet to be seen. 

Also, it's not entirely fair to judge Carmelo's "ball hoggery" based on his assist numbers compared to that of Chris Paul and James Harden.  Chris Paul is a pure PG.  James Harden came in to the league as a PG, but due to his scoring ability has spent most of his career at the SG spot - be he has legit PG skills.  Carmelo Anthony is a scoring wing who just happens to be a fairly skilled passer. 

His Assist average (2.9 APG) and assist rate (14.5%) last season were among the lowest of his career, and yet they do not rate that far behind our own Gordon Hayward (3.5 APG, 18.2% AR) - a guy who I've never heard anybody refer to as a ball hog, and who is often praised for being a skilled playmaker for a wing. 

In fact if you look at the career numbers for both guys, they are darn near identical...

Melo:
3.1 APG
16.2% AR

Hayward:
3.5 APG
18.7% AR

So if you want to brand Melo a ball hog based on those assist numbers, I guess Danny Ainge just signed us a ball hog of our very own too.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 09:12:13 PM by crimson_stallion »

Offline moiso

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Chris Paul is extremely unselfish but I can see someone classifying him as a ball hog because he dominates the ball so much. 

Offline playdream

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Chris Paul is extremely unselfish but I can see someone classifying him as a ball hog because he dominates the ball so much.
Passing does not equal to unselfishness if you hug the ball all the time

Offline nickagneta

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Mentioned in the talks means that the Knicks asked for him, odds of them getting him unless they are sending out more than Melo is basically zero.

That's sports reporting, sadly.

NYK: "How about Jabari"?"

MIL: "Nope".

Reporter: "The Knicks and Bucks discussed Jabari Parker".

Well, it's not entirely out of the question if the Knicks are legitimately listening to offers for Porzingis (who clearly doesn't seem to want to be there right now). 

The following works in trade machine...

Knicks get:
Ryan Anderson (19.6M) from Houston
Trevor Ariza (7.4M) from Houston
Jabari Parker (6.8M) from Milwaukee

Houston gets:
Carmelo Anthony (26.2M) from New York

Milwaukee gets:
Kristaps Porzingis (4.5M) from New York

Probably makes some sense for all three teams.  Knick add a 21 year old 20/6 guy in Parker, who compensates for losing Porzingis.  Ariza is a nice player on a great contract, and as bad as Ryan Anderson's contract is, at least he is a prototypical stretch big for today's NBA. That's actually a solid return for the Knicks.

Milwaukee would instantly go into beast mode, building around Porzingis and Giannis - scary team for the future right there.

Houston gets Carmelo so they can form their own big 3 (with CP3, Harden, Carmelo).

I think everybody comes out pretty happy tbh.
If all the Knicks can get for Porzingas and Melo is a seriously injured player, an albatross contract and a mediocre 32 year old SF then they need to bring Phil Jackson back because that's horrid value. Even the horrible Phil Jackson could get better value back than that.

Offline green_bballers13

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Why would Porzingis leave NY, esp if Carmelo is leaving? Zinger can be the official face of the franchise.

Not sure about the French kid, but I think NYK messed up by passing on Dennis Smith. I think he can be a special PG.

I'm ready to not think about where Carmelo is going anymore. It seems like he's been on the move for many years now.

Daryl Morey can't be psyched with a Paul, Harden, Carmelo core, can he? I don't see the chemistry and I don't see the elite talent that beats GS. If Houston picks Carmelo up, it can't cost that much, right?!?!?

Jabari- that poor SOB. I liked his game at Duke and have heard that he's been getting to be a decent NBA player. I hope he can stay healthy going forward.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 10:14:51 PM by green_bballers13 »

Offline Smartacus

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Mentioned in the talks means that the Knicks asked for him, odds of them getting him unless they are sending out more than Melo is basically zero.

That's sports reporting, sadly.

NYK: "How about Jabari"?"

MIL: "Nope".

Reporter: "The Knicks and Bucks discussed Jabari Parker".
Jabari Parker is out probably until Feb. and coming off of his 2nd ACL tear.  He will be an RFA next summer and I would be scared to death to match or sign him to a 4 year contract.  Milwaukee has been saddled with bad contract after bad contract the last few years and I wouldn't doubt at all that they want to dump him.

Milwaukee is listed as the third team in the alleged discussions. Are they going to trade Jabari *and* take back the bad salary required to make a deal work? For what incentive?
Milwaukee has Henson who is useless to them and also on a 3 year contract making 11.4 mill. this year, Parker is very likely to give them nothing this year and will be very risky going forward.  Anderson while overpaid is at least useful and would help them this year.  A lineup of Monroe/Anderson/Giannis/Middleton/Brogdon looks better than what they have right now.  Maybe they get a young player from either N.Y. or Houston in the deal also. 

N.Y. gets: Henson/Ariza/Parker
Houston:  Melo
Milwaukee:  Anderson + a young player from either N.Y. or Houston maybe.

Man that's really interesting Giannis provides such an unprecedented skill set I actually could see Anderson returning to form there. Can't really think of many other situations where his defensive deficiencies would be masked better that sticking him next to Giannis and Middleton. Monroe apparently graded out fairly well in rim protection this past year too IIRC.

Really like it for the Knicks. Ariza is an excellent steady hand to put next to Porzingis and Henson would allow the Knicks to rest KP without losing all of their rim protection. Even if Parker doesn't come back right away, it would give Tim Hardaway Jr and KP time to gel and hopefully for them they'd be firing on all cylinders by 2018/2019.

Rockets new owner gets additional brand recognition and Melo see's his jersey scales skyrocket from the China bump. Think this is the first Melo deal I've seen that makes sense. It's a stronger league if this deal goes through.