Poll

How do you feel about the rearranged trades?

Better about both
5 (23.8%)
Better about one, but not the other
7 (33.3%)
Meh, the same
9 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Author Topic: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade  (Read 2748 times)

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Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« on: September 03, 2017, 11:49:27 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Imagine that the trades were...

Kyrie
for
Fultz

Tatum + Lakers/Kings pick
for
Isaiah, Crowder, Zizic + the Nets pick

...would you feel better about each trade?
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 11:57:08 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Those look one sided. One for C's and one total against

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 12:02:18 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Those look one sided. One for C's and one total against

To me the Lakers pick and Nets pick are a wash. So the second trade comes down to Tatum for Isaiah (one year, bad hip) + Crowder + Zizic, which I do 100 out of 100 times.

The Kyrie for Fultz trade is even more of a no-brainer for us, since Kyrie is already what Fultz's potential ceiling is.
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 12:07:51 PM »

Offline footey

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Kyrie for Fultz doesn't work salary wise.  Even if it did, I doubt that CLE does it because they get no immediate help from a vet, which they (James) wanted.

The Sixers would absolutely scoff at trading Tatum for Thomas and Crowder.

I think this points out that the trade with Sixers has a good chance of being judged as a great trade for the Celtics, particularly if Tatum and Fultz have similar careers, and the added pick brings value.  The Kyrie trade was more of a balanced trade between the two teams.

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 12:11:31 PM »

Offline Eja117

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The first is a slam dunk and the 2nd is a wash at absolute best. One way to look at it a little is the 2nd trade opens up a roster spot. So it's really more like Tatum and ...TRob?...for all that. Maybe makes it slightly better

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 12:21:21 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Those look one sided. One for C's and one total against

To me the Lakers pick and Nets pick are a wash. So the second trade comes down to Tatum for Isaiah (one year, bad hip) + Crowder + Zizic, which I do 100 out of 100 times.

The Kyrie for Fultz trade is even more of a no-brainer for us, since Kyrie is already what Fultz's potential ceiling is.
The Irving trade is great the last one is an overpay for Tatum. Two medical staffs say the hip should be okay after rehab and can be managed so IT and Crowder is more than enough for Tatum. Then you lose a non protected pick for a protected one.

It all doesn't matter though as they weren't the trades.

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 12:29:05 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Those look one sided. One for C's and one total against

To me the Lakers pick and Nets pick are a wash. So the second trade comes down to Tatum for Isaiah (one year, bad hip) + Crowder + Zizic, which I do 100 out of 100 times.

The Kyrie for Fultz trade is even more of a no-brainer for us, since Kyrie is already what Fultz's potential ceiling is.
The Irving trade is great the last one is an overpay for Tatum. Two medical staffs say the hip should be okay after rehab and can be managed so IT and Crowder is more than enough for Tatum. Then you lose a non protected pick for a protected one.

It all doesn't matter though as they weren't the trades.

Overpay for Tatum? I agree with footey that the team with Tatum would scoff at the deal.
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 01:08:30 PM »

Offline mgent

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Brown has to fully replace AB.

Morris has to fully replace KO.

Baynes has to fully replace Amir.

Tatum has to fully replace Jerebko.

Hayward has to fully replace Crowder.

Irving has to fully replace IT.

Somebody has to replace Brown, who is replacing AB.

Somebody has to replace Zeller as our 3rd big.

Laker pick has to replace the BKN pick.

That's a lot of contingencies just to get back to last year's team. 
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2017, 01:16:14 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Brown has to fully replace AB. LET'S SEE.

Morris has to fully replace KO. KELLY PLAYED 1 GOOD GAME AND 4 MEDIOCRE ONES. EASY.

Baynes has to fully replace Amir. AMIR WAS COOKED, EASY.

Tatum has to fully replace Jerebko. MORE THAN EASY.

Hayward has to fully replace Crowder. LOL.

Irving has to fully replace IT. MUCH BETTER.

Somebody has to replace Brown, who is replacing AB. HIMSELF, PLAYING MORE MINUTES.

Somebody has to replace Zeller as our 3rd big. ANYBODY CAN DO THAT. EVEN ME IN A LADDER.

Laker pick has to replace the BKN pick. LET'S SEE.

That's a lot of contingencies just to get back to last year's team.

You have forgotten some basic things. For example, young players develop year after year. Jaylen Brown will be much better, Rozier and Smart will be better, we have Tatum, etc.

Also, Kyrie and Hayward are two legit all-stars. We didn't have that last year.

Some posters always look the glass half empty. That's tiring...

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2017, 07:31:41 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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And don't forget that Irving is replacing IT with a potential bum hip.  Celtics don't even offer this trade if IT4 is healthy, which he's not or Cleveland would Ta ask for additional compensation.

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2017, 07:51:30 PM »

Offline jambr380

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And don't forget that Irving is replacing IT with a potential bum hip.  Celtics don't even offer this trade if IT4 is healthy, which he's not or Cleveland would Ta ask for additional compensation.

Yeah, I mean 25 y/o, healthy Kyrie is replacing 28 y/o, injured (for at least part of the year), shorter IT on an expiring contract. I agree that if you just take like the last two seasons and compare them, they are very similar, but we are looking at future value and potential and I don't think anybody in the world would take IT over Kyrie moving forward.

It should also be noted that we can now keep Smart past 2018 - so that should be noted in the table (Smart vs vet min. player replacing Smart)

And Hayward replacing Crowder? Really?

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2017, 07:53:19 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Brown has to fully replace AB. LET'S SEE.

Morris has to fully replace KO. KELLY PLAYED 1 GOOD GAME AND 4 MEDIOCRE ONES. EASY.

Baynes has to fully replace Amir. AMIR WAS COOKED, EASY.

Tatum has to fully replace Jerebko. MORE THAN EASY.

Hayward has to fully replace Crowder. LOL.

Irving has to fully replace IT. MUCH BETTER.

Somebody has to replace Brown, who is replacing AB. HIMSELF, PLAYING MORE MINUTES.

Somebody has to replace Zeller as our 3rd big. ANYBODY CAN DO THAT. EVEN ME IN A LADDER.

Laker pick has to replace the BKN pick. LET'S SEE.

That's a lot of contingencies just to get back to last year's team.

You have forgotten some basic things. For example, young players develop year after year. Jaylen Brown will be much better, Rozier and Smart will be better, we have Tatum, etc.

Also, Kyrie and Hayward are two legit all-stars. We didn't have that last year.

Some posters always look the glass half empty. That's tiring...

TP.

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 08:27:07 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Who wouldn't trade Fultz for Kyrie?

Who wouldn't trade Isaiah, Jae, Zizic for Tatum?
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 08:41:34 AM »

Offline azzenfrost

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Why rearrange?

...

Why not?

I moved the cheese.

Re: Switch the Kyrie & Fultz trade pieces and re-grade
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2017, 09:06:46 AM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Why rearrange?

...

Why not?

When you rearrange the trades, I think, the new versions are more of a no-brainer than the originals. Instead of overpaying for Kyrie as a third of the forum believes, Fultz for Kyrie is a no-brainer for us, avoiding all the risk of waiting on Fultz to maybe develop into something as good as Kyrie, getting certainty and still staying young. If that's the first of the two trades, then one year of Isaiah on an iffy hip + Crowder + Zizic for Tatum, the #1 prospect on the C's draft board, is also a no-brainer. The Lakers and Nets picks cancel each other out, as opposed to the Nets pick being compared to and valued more than Kyrie.
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.