Author Topic: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?  (Read 2965 times)

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Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2017, 09:08:55 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I'm trying to imagine the things Roy (and I) and the rest of us would have said if right after our championship Rondo made a trade demand and wouldn't talk to his teammates, and then it comes out it's because he can't stand KG.

I'd hate him forever and never be able to take him seriously.

That said I think the true Judases are unseen.  I think they're the guys that see an internal team matter and start leaking out ugly private details so that the situation becomes completely unsolvable and it destroys the trade leverage the team may have had. This is why Trump attacks the media. It's very difficult to find the leaker so you have to sorta try to take away the power of the leaker. Demand names or it's a lie. Refute stories and put out counter stories. Reduce media access to the team. Belichick is also a media master.

Id change the scenario slightly and add that it would be like after '08 danny tries to trade rondo with kg and pierce's permission, then the deal falls through, rondo finds out and then asks for a trade.

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2017, 09:39:30 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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i guess Cheveland will retire his jersey

has anybody else ever did anything noteable from there . .. need to build an Uncle Drew Statue .

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2017, 09:47:51 AM »

Offline alley oop

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I'm trying to imagine the things Roy (and I) and the rest of us would have said if right after our championship Rondo made a trade demand and wouldn't talk to his teammates, and then it comes out it's because he can't stand KG.

I'd hate him forever and never be able to take him seriously.

That said I think the true Judases are unseen.  I think they're the guys that see an internal team matter and start leaking out ugly private details so that the situation becomes completely unsolvable and it destroys the trade leverage the team may have had. This is why Trump attacks the media. It's very difficult to find the leaker so you have to sorta try to take away the power of the leaker. Demand names or it's a lie. Refute stories and put out counter stories. Reduce media access to the team. Belichick is also a media master.

Id change the scenario slightly and add that it would be like after '08 danny tries to trade rondo with kg and pierce's permission, then the deal falls through, rondo finds out and then asks for a trade.

Good hypothetical:
Quote
However, thereís another reason Irving has asked to be traded, and itís pretty ironic. Apparently Irving asked to be traded because the Cavs tried to trade him.

Seriously! It turns out Irvingís name was thrown out in the Cavaliersí attempts to acquire either Jimmy Butler or Paul George. However, the Cavs didnít give Irving the courtesy of informing him about the talks.

Apparently former Cavs GM David Griffin had a strong relationship with Kyrie. He openly discussed the point guardís concerns about playing second fiddle and assured him that he was trying to find a solution. Griffin also kept Kyrie in the loop.

That was not the case after Griffin was forced out by owner Dan Gilbert. With Griffin gone, nobody told Kyrie that they were willing to part with him. When he found out, he was p---ed.

http://www.totalprosports.com/2017/07/24/report-kyrie-irving-upset-cavs-included-him-trade-talks/

« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 10:16:29 AM by alley oop »

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2017, 10:12:40 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Should fans focus on Kyrie's leaving, or remember him for helping them to a championship?

I can't help but compare him to Ray Allen:

* Both helped their team to a title;

* Both left their team for a primary conference rival;

* Both took less money than they could have;

* Neither communicated with their teammates before leaving town.

So, is he "Benedict Kyrie" there?  And if so, does that fan base come across as a little ungrateful?

The Ray Allen comparison is way off.  Ray was in the twilight of his career and left to go to a team that the Celtics just recently lost to in the ECF Finals to ring-chase.  Ray also left because of the way Doc inserted Avery Bradley into the lineup over him.  If Ray had demanded a trade, I could see it, but he chose to go to Miami and we got nothing back for him.

I think the Chris Paul trade is probably the best comparison.  Basically makes it known that he would like to be moved now instead of playing out the string, and allows his team to get something back for him versus walking in free agency.

We as fans should actually be grateful that players request trades versus waiting to leave in free agency, at least our teams can get some pieces in return.  The Cavs fans should feel the same way.

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2017, 10:47:52 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Should fans focus on Kyrie's leaving, or remember him for helping them to a championship?

I can't help but compare him to Ray Allen:

* Both helped their team to a title;

* Both left their team for a primary conference rival;

* Both took less money than they could have;

* Neither communicated with their teammates before leaving town.

So, is he "Benedict Kyrie" there?  And if so, does that fan base come across as a little ungrateful?

The Ray Allen comparison is way off.  Ray was in the twilight of his career and left to go to a team that the Celtics just recently lost to in the ECF Finals to ring-chase.  Ray also left because of the way Doc inserted Avery Bradley into the lineup over him.  If Ray had demanded a trade, I could see it, but he chose to go to Miami and we got nothing back for him.

I think the Chris Paul trade is probably the best comparison.  Basically makes it known that he would like to be moved now instead of playing out the string, and allows his team to get something back for him versus walking in free agency.

We as fans should actually be grateful that players request trades versus waiting to leave in free agency, at least our teams can get some pieces in return.  The Cavs fans should feel the same way.

The Cavs should be grateful that a star player demanded a trade with two full seasons left on his deal?  I don't see that as better.


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Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2017, 11:07:33 AM »

Offline timpiker

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If I was a Cavs fan I'd be p---ed at Kyrie as well - and I'd be p---ed at LeBUM

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2017, 06:29:37 PM »

Online IDreamCeltics

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I don't think Cavs fans are particularly bitter about the situation for the simple reason that they feel they won the trade. 

From their perspective they replaced 100% of Irving's production with Isaiah AND picked up two more players and two draft picks.

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2017, 06:36:52 PM »

Offline Onslaught

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Yes, they have a reason to be mad at him. But like me and my feelings over Ray most of them will get over it in time. They will say thanks for the ring and that's about it.
Peace through Tyranny

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2017, 06:37:14 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I'm trying to imagine the things Roy (and I) and the rest of us would have said if right after our championship Rondo made a trade demand and wouldn't talk to his teammates, and then it comes out it's because he can't stand KG.

I'd hate him forever and never be able to take him seriously.

That said I think the true Judases are unseen.  I think they're the guys that see an internal team matter and start leaking out ugly private details so that the situation becomes completely unsolvable and it destroys the trade leverage the team may have had. This is why Trump attacks the media. It's very difficult to find the leaker so you have to sorta try to take away the power of the leaker. Demand names or it's a lie. Refute stories and put out counter stories. Reduce media access to the team. Belichick is also a media master.

But what if KG was set to be a free agent and was letting public speculation run rampant that he was leaving for the Lakers?

People seem to be really out to paint Irving in a bad light because they just want to be grouches and pee in everyone's cheerios. But I can see why he wanted out. Playing with LeBron is obviously a great opportunity but it also comes with a lot of drama, which LeBron himself seems to relish in.
Thank you, Isaiah!!!

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2017, 06:48:21 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Should fans focus on Kyrie's leaving, or remember him for helping them to a championship?

I can't help but compare him to Ray Allen:

* Both helped their team to a title;

* Both left their team for a primary conference rival;

* Both took less money than they could have;

* Neither communicated with their teammates before leaving town.

So, is he "Benedict Kyrie" there?  And if so, does that fan base come across as a little ungrateful?

I think they should be grateful. However, if the Celtics start beating the Cavs and win a ring(s), I could see that town getting even more bitter when Lebron leaves and become Kyrie Hater Central

I think most rational CLE fans realize that Kyrie and Lebron weren't clicking. If given the choice of Kyrie or Lebron, 99% would pick Lebron. After winning a ring, he wanted to go somewhere to help build a team to win as the man. Not many high achievers like to be the second best in the room. I would make the same choice if I were him.

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2017, 07:23:39 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Should fans focus on Kyrie's leaving, or remember him for helping them to a championship?

I can't help but compare him to Ray Allen:

* Both helped their team to a title;

* Both left their team for a primary conference rival;

* Both took less money than they could have;

* Neither communicated with their teammates before leaving town.

So, is he "Benedict Kyrie" there?  And if so, does that fan base come across as a little ungrateful?

The Ray Allen comparison is way off.  Ray was in the twilight of his career and left to go to a team that the Celtics just recently lost to in the ECF Finals to ring-chase.  Ray also left because of the way Doc inserted Avery Bradley into the lineup over him.  If Ray had demanded a trade, I could see it, but he chose to go to Miami and we got nothing back for him.

I think the Chris Paul trade is probably the best comparison.  Basically makes it known that he would like to be moved now instead of playing out the string, and allows his team to get something back for him versus walking in free agency.

We as fans should actually be grateful that players request trades versus waiting to leave in free agency, at least our teams can get some pieces in return.  The Cavs fans should feel the same way.

The Cavs should be grateful that a star player demanded a trade with two full seasons left on his deal?  I don't see that as better.

Yeah, they should.  What did OKC get for Durant?  What did the Cavs get when Lebron went to Miami.

They got zero, nothing, nada, zilch, for the two top talents in the league.  Had Durant and Lebron told management that they wanted a trade, how better off would those two franchise have been?  I will wager much better.

So yes - Cleveland fans should be thankful that Kyrie opted to ask for a trade versus play out the string and leave in free agency.

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2017, 07:29:06 PM »

Offline incoherent

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Ray Allen situation is not even close to Kyrie's. 

One joined the team that had defeated him.  The other joined the team he had defeated.

Comparing anything past that is an extreme reach when you consider their initial circumstances are EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE!!!!

What a reach.

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2017, 07:53:24 PM »

Offline ManUp

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Lebron makes the situation different.

Yes he is a traitor, but what level of loyalty should you expect when Lebron is team leader?

I think not being a member of the Lebron soap opera is a legit reason for leaving and the disastrous ownership doesn't help.

Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2017, 08:20:09 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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If I were a Cavs fan, I'd have to consider him a major traitor.

The truth is, he burst their little bubble for this coming year, the last year of LeCarpetbagger.

They were most likely all ready to make another finals run. With Irving replaced by IT, not so much. Even if they get into the finals, and they actually may, IT will be abused by Golden State something fierce. Who will they hide him on? Curry, Thompson, Green?


Re: Should Cavs fans regard Kyrie as a "traitor" / "Judas"?
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2017, 08:47:03 PM »

Offline RLewis35

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Kyrie is a major reason Cleveland won its first title in any sport in how many years? 50-60? A few years from now kyrie should and will only be remembered fondly in Cleveland.

It's kind of like everyone from the 2004 Red Sox team for me.  I don't care that schilling is a huge d bag, mannys attitude resulted in us having to trade him in 2008 when maybe we coulda won it all again if we had held on to him, Damon left for the hated Yankees - all is forgiven for me bc they were the curse breakers. Same guys did the same thing to the Celtics and I'd feel differently bc the 2004 Red Sox title meant more - way more.  That's how I think Cleveland fans should and will think of kyrie eventually. He will and should get booed at first - but I think that will be short lived


Also if lebron leaves again after this year, Cleveland will forget entirely that kyrie even demanded a trade.